Vixen-1000E AESA with IRST showcased at IDEAS

[SQ8]

The paranoid will continue to talk of kill switches, the operators will continue to use them knowing exactly what is what. The fake experts will continue to try and present themselves as knowledgeable or important.

Bored.
@araz Have not the extreme experience @gambit or @Bilal Khan 777 has in the field. But know enough operators and people who actually work with these things to put killswitches in the same guise as autism via vaccines or farts curing cancer.

The thread is about the Vixen Radar.. lets not entertain any more posts that do not relate to it.

 

[MastanKhan]

The paranoid will continue to talk of kill switches, the operators will continue to use them knowing exactly what is what. The fake experts will continue to try and present themselves as knowledgeable or important.

Bored.
@araz Have not the extreme experience @gambit or @Bilal Khan 777 has in the field. But know enough operators and people who actually work with these things to put killswitches in the same guise as autism via vaccines or farts curing cancer.

The thread is about the Vixen Radar.. lets not entertain any more posts that do not relate to it.

Hi,

All steam.

It is a law of the U S---dig in a little deeper---it is the U S homeland security's national security requirement.

Any and every aircraft built since 2007---in the U S or elsewhere---IF it has to fly into the U S from a foreign country or is located in the U S air space---it has to have a ' kill switch '. All aircraft means---civilian----commercial---private---military---fixed winged---rotary winged---.

Any pakistani claiming this from a ' position of strength and projects to the reader and public that such is not the case and propagates the purchase of the F 16's---is no friend of pakistan---and is sabotaging the defense and integrity of pakistan.

Just because Billal Khan has been is service---does not mean he would know about it---and as for gambit---if he admits on a pakistani forum about kill switches on pakistani F16's or otherwise---he would be jeopardizing his job and security clearance as well. And as careful as he is about writing about certain issues or making comments---it is highly doubtful that he would comment---.

@Oscar --- when your comments need the approval or validation from others or seeking their information---it should be clear to everyone that you don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Pretty Intense Discussion even its Off-Topic but still so much learn

 

[Tank131]

I will say again, the talk of an actual killswitch is overstated. The US does not need to place a system into the F-16 in order to disable it. Now we are talking in technology about the "Internet of things", different objects communicating with each other. It is very easy for those who made the Link 16 system to access it... And by doing so they can insert a virus or command line that will lead to a catastrophic failure of the wholde system (disabling the radar, FCS, ecm, communications, gps, fuel systems, the actual jet engine, ect.). We have seen in when a Chinese research team hacked a tesla model s to take over its brakes and other critical systems from 12 miles away.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...hack-tesla-model-s/?client=ms-android-verizon

We also saw it in Iran when US/Israeli intelligence agencies attacked an Iranian Nuclear facility at Natanz and destroyed 1/5th of Irans centrifuges using the Stuxnet virus. If you dont think the people who created Link 16 can use it to access critical F-16 systems (and have already done it in 2008 to the Israelis, granted without destroying the systems, just to spy on it) but were able to attack an Iranian Nuclear installation and destroy 1/5 of that country's centrifuges, if you think they can't do the same to the F-16 you are living in a dream world.

All this is not to say that the US would actually carry out such an attack, I dont believe it would unless the US and Pakistan find themselves in open conflict with one another (which again is highly unlikely). I certainly dont think they would do so on behalf of India (it would complicate our efforts tremendously in Afghanistan) and any Indian living in the delusion that we would just needs to see our treatment of Pakistan in 71. We operate for our interests, you operate for yours. And it is not in US interest to take sides in an armed conflict that could draw us and China in to conflict as well.

 

[SQ8]

Hi,

All steam.

It is a law of the U S---dig in a little deeper---it is the U S homeland security's national security requirement.

Any and every aircraft built since 2007---in the U S or elsewhere---IF it has to fly into the U S from a foreign country or is located in the U S air space---it has to have a ' kill switch '. All aircraft means---civilian----commercial---private---military---fixed winged---rotary winged---.

Any pakistani claiming this from a ' position of strength and projects to the reader and public that such is not the case and propagates the purchase of the F 16's---is no friend of pakistan---and is sabotaging the defense and integrity of pakistan.

Just because Billal Khan has been is service---does not mean he would know about it---and as for gambit---if he admits on a pakistani forum about kill switches on pakistani F16's or otherwise---he would be jeopardizing his job and security clearance as well. And as careful as he is about writing about certain issues or making comments---it is highly doubtful that he would comment---.

@Oscar --- when your comments need the approval or validation from others or seeking their information---it should be clear to everyone that you don't have a leg to stand on.

Or

unlike you, I prefer to not be authoritative like a knowledge-less nobody trying to have some sort of last hurrah before returning to the almighty, and prefer to invite others with similar actual knowledge on the subject to give a concrete knowledgeable statement on the discussion.

Next time I need validation on the 5 year value of the Chevolet Impala, Ill tag you.

Until then, please feel free to not quote me.

 

[MastanKhan]

I will say again, the talk of an actual killswitch is overstated. The US does not need to place a system into the F-16 in order to disable it. Now we are talking in technology about the "Internet of things", different objects communicating with each other. It is very easy for those who made the Link 16 system to access it... And by doing so they can insert a virus or command line that will lead to a catastrophic failure of the wholde system (disabling the radar, FCS, ecm, communications, gps, fuel systems, the actual jet engine, ect.). We have seen in when a Chinese research team hacked a tesla model s to take over its brakes and other critical systems from 12 miles away.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...hack-tesla-model-s/?client=ms-android-verizon

We also saw it in Iran when US/Israeli intelligence agencies attacked an Iranian Nuclear facility at Natanz and destroyed 1/5th of Irans centrifuges using the Stuxnet virus. If you dont think the people who created Link 16 can use it to access critical F-16 systems (and have already done it in 2008 to the Israelis, granted without destroying the systems, just to spy on it) but were able to attack an Iranian Nuclear installation and destroy 1/5 of that country's centrifuges, if you think they can't do the same to the F-16 you are living in a dream world.

All this is not to say that the US would actually carry out such an attack, I dont believe it would unless the US and Pakistan find themselves in open conflict with one another (which again is highly unlikely). I certainly dont think they would do so on behalf of India (it would complicate our efforts tremendously in Afghanistan) and any Indian living in the delusion that we would just needs to see our treatment of Pakistan in 71. We operate for our interests, you operate for yours. And it is not in US interest to take sides in an armed conflict that could draw us and China in to conflict as well.

Hi,

Thank you for the POST. Stuxnet and its diestruction is in front of the world---. All these videos of cars being hacked remotely are on videos in the public domain.

Majority of pakistanis being illiterate don't understand or cannot comprehend where technology has gone---.

They still think that when you press the accelerator---a metal wire moves the throttle---or when you turn the steering---a hydraulic pump makes the assist---or when you push on the brakes---a vacuum booster gives the assist---or when you want to open the air vents in your car---you move a lever and a cable attached to it moves the vent.

Most have no comprehension that in modern vehicles---the accelerator sends a signal thru an electric wire to an actuator when iot is pushed down---when you turn the steering---an electric wire sends a signal for assist---because there is an electric motor now---when you step on the the brake pedal---there is no vaccuum boost---there is an electric motor to give assist---same with air conditioning controls---.

Cameras in cars front back and on the sides---infrared tracking---night vision in cars---electronic gadgets that have connections to the world---just like aircraft---that talk to each other thru " SECURE " link or the not " so secure Link ".

And now these vehicles have remote connection to computers at factory headquarters thru the bluetooth.

The commercial aircraft---they are constantly sending the performance report of the engine and other accessories to the computers at the factory while in operation---this all makes me laugh at those who claim that the next step cannot be taken.


And as for the war scenario with India---Lockmart is eagerly waiting to see how its F16 going to perform against the russian and french equipment---as a matter of fact all the U S gerbels are eagerly awaiting a clash between the two so that they can judge the performance of their weapons systems in real conflict.

So---no kill switches during pak india wars---but only when sanctions hit.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Hi,

All steam.

It is a law of the U S---dig in a little deeper---it is the U S homeland security's national security requirement.

Any and every aircraft built since 2007---in the U S or elsewhere---IF it has to fly into the U S from a foreign country or is located in the U S air space---it has to have a ' kill switch '. All aircraft means---civilian----commercial---private---military---fixed winged---rotary winged---.

Any pakistani claiming this from a ' position of strength and projects to the reader and public that such is not the case and propagates the purchase of the F 16's---is no friend of pakistan---and is sabotaging the defense and integrity of pakistan.

Just because Billal Khan has been is service---does not mean he would know about it---and as for gambit---if he admits on a pakistani forum about kill switches on pakistani F16's or otherwise---he would be jeopardizing his job and security clearance as well. And as careful as he is about writing about certain issues or making comments---it is highly doubtful that he would comment---.

@Oscar --- when your comments need the approval or validation from others or seeking their information---it should be clear to everyone that you don't have a leg to stand on.

As you get personal, what would you know about it? What would you know about our ability for work arounds? What would you know? Only talk non-sense and fueling the skeptics imagination.

 

[CriticalThought]

As you get personal, what would you know about it? What would you know about our ability for work arounds? What would you know? Only talk non-sense and fueling the skeptics imagination.

A bit unrelated to your post, but just to set the record straight, all of my posts on this thread only presume publicly available information. I will be the first one to acknowledge there is a lot more going on behind the scenes that I don't know about. Where I have contradicted senior posters on this thread, it is with the intention of drawing the right conclusions, based on public information, and for consumption on a public forum.

 

[MastanKhan]

As you get personal, what would you know about it? What would you know about our ability for work arounds? What would you know? Only talk non-sense and fueling the skeptics imagination.

Hi,

Thank you for a " self praise & feel good " comment.

 

[ghazi768]

Your statement makes sense if Pakistan is using their own flavor of encryption standards which take times to decrypt, A day or two which makes information useless by then in todays environment . If PAF is using AES standards or the encryption based on AES (Symmetric encryption protocols) , then it is much easier for America to decrypt the whole communication stream in real time. Minimum within minutes, Maximum it would take an hour for them

I dont know the Speed or Bandwidth requirements of Link-17 But if I have to take a guess, It is same as that of Link-16. I Mbps speed. Which means The Downlink/Uplink Speeds would be 100 Kbps/50-60 Kbps. With such bandwith, adding a heavy encryption on top would be meaningless. It will slowdown the entire communication network. So A medium encryption to not to boggle down or throttle the communication network will be a piece of cake for NSA/associated agencies to break down within 24 hours.

If Symmetric encryption protocols gets broken, It is impossible to fix that protocol with band aids unless we replace the entrie protocol suit



Actually it is much easier for America because almost all the Symmetric or Asymmetric encryption standards and protocols were developed in America. In the labs of NSA/NIST or they invited computer scientists to create new cipher suits via public competitions . They know the ins and outs of their protocols. The strengths and weaknesses in the Algorithms. So in context of Pakistan unless Pakistan knows the ins and outs of encryption protocols and know how to mitigate such threats that the creator of protocol can not compromise Pakistan Encryption, We can not say for sure, Despite encrypting sensitive information, Pakistan is 100 percent save from Ameircan efforts of decrypting their communications in real time (witnin minutes and hours bracket)

You raised valid questions but your premise is wrong. I am not a mathematician but attended a couple of courses and will post what I can. Theoretically all ciphers are breakable accept using code books, This is the very basis on which modern ciphers are built, using code books is practically impossible for many purposes.

Modern ciphers implementations accept that they will be ultimately broken theoretically but are built to make it an extremely time taking and number crunching exercise and therefore practically ensure that what ever your are encrypting will remain secure for many years, I think with military strength keys, calculations are in thousands if not more years. If your message is time in-senstive and you want to ensure that it never gets broken, not in a million years than only choice is code books. I am confident that we have experts in cryptology to make excellent implementations of ciphers and RNGs. By the AES is actually a standard and not cipher, behind the scene I think it used to use some cipher called rinjdeal or something like that, our forces are not beholden to use it, they can implement and use others.

Although bandwidth per hardware station is never enough and someone somewhere will always wish for a bigger pipe but present speeds are good. I do not know much under the hood technology but it is developed specifically to handle what I think is called network latency and do it fully encrypted. That is the best I can say here.

Now about kill switches, what is the guarantee that Russians do not build them into products or Chinese do not or we will not build it into our products. Frankly no such god damn guarantees exist. What is important is not what is theoretical, all systems are breakable theoretically, what matters is what is practical.
We are not some banana republic, US guys can keep poking, probing but they are not stupid to make it a survival issue for us. That will make their policies and lives, in all geographies all around us, extremely miserable.

 

[Tank131]

I think we should get back to the topic of the thread and away from F-16/killswitch/hacking. The topic was the Vixen 1000E.

Beyond the fact that it was displayed, can anyone point to any solid evidence that PAF is seeking this european solution, and what Selex is putting together for a JF-17 tender? Frankly, the Vixen 1000E is already been surpassed by the Raven ES05 and if the KLJ7A is actually ELM 2052, it would likely be superior as well.

 

[MastanKhan]

I think we should get back to the topic of the thread and away from F-16/killswitch/hacking. The topic was the Vixen 1000E.

Beyond the fact that it was displayed, can anyone point to any solid evidence that PAF is seeking this european solution, and what Selex is putting together for a JF-17 tender? Frankly, the Vixen 1000E is already been surpassed by the Raven ES05 and if the KLJ7A is actually ELM 2052, it would likely be superior as well.

Hi,

A very interesting news on wiki

"
Controversy[edit]
A Chinese company, NAV Technologies in Beijing has marketed a radar similar to the 2052. It is said to have caused an investigation in Washington for a connection between Israel and Beijing. Elta denies this. No further news on this radar has been heard.[4] "

 

[Khafee]

Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

Thank you and sorry for ending the discussion. Please note points 1 and 3 above, and apply them to air-combat scenarios as well (both Beyond-Visual-Range and Dogfighting).

Coupling a Helmet-Mounted-Display/Sight with Active-Electronically-Scanned-Array Radar, Infra-Red-Search-&-Track or Forward-Looking-Infra-Red, and Missile-Approach-Warning-System pays dividends in all cases - remember you get shot down by the enemy you don't see and being able to look out and have some of your sensor readings available is extremely helpful.

Also, PAF wanted the AIM-9X but it was not released. It is still important to train with the JHMCS for the above reasons plus possible future acquisitions of AIM-9X / ASRAAM / IRIS-T or the like.

Anyway, the mods should be happy with the mention of AESA and IRST above.

Thank you for your really insightful questions.

Hifz u kum Allah

Because someone gets very upset, and starts throwing tantrums and false flag ops, goodies come silently and via ambiguous notifications.

 

[MastanKhan]

Because someone gets very upset, and starts throwing tantrums and false flag ops, goodies come silently and via ambiguous notifications.

Hi,

I think the faucet has been tightened up a tad bit---. Game changers like the aim9X will be very difficult to slip thru.

If you might remember---Paf had the same mentality before and after the 90's sanctions hit---.

They will come---we will get them---america is not stupid---and all that stuff---same comments.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Hi,

A very interesting news on wiki

"
Controversy[edit]
A Chinese company, NAV Technologies in Beijing has marketed a radar similar to the 2052. It is said to have caused an investigation in Washington for a connection between Israel and Beijing. Elta denies this. No further news on this radar has been heard.[4] "

Dr. Yang of Nav Technologies does not have access to ELTA, he is only a front for 14th Institute from Nanjing.