Violence in Rawapindi claims seven lives, 34 injured

[thefreesyrian]

i think you should be informed that the procession was PRE-PLANNED.......for security reasons as well as other reasons, the procession route was decided well in advance and there was a security presence to ensure things went smoothly.

a few insults hurled by a bunch of stupid bastards is what caused squirmishes which led from one thing to another. . .

no need for public vote - this is an annual procession and those who want to be part of it shall be part of it and those who dont want to be part of it they need not go. SIMPLE.


and as i said - please dont compare Pakistan to Lebanon or Iraq. We are not Iraqis and we are not Lebanese peoples.

I think u are delusional too...excuse me, but people in iraq or in lebanon have highest litteracy rate, it didnt prevent of going to civil war.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Not "most Muslims" , Just a few Wahabis and Deobandis do not give importance to Kerbala or Najaf and they do more so in their hatred of other sects .

in this particular incident, there were also Shiia members of the procession who mis-behaved also....they reacted to insults and resorted to fighting.

Our Prophet (SAWS) used to receive vicious insults and things thrown at him by the tribals of ancient Arabia (especially the Makkans). I hope none of you have forgotten this critically important part about Islamic history.

HOW THE PROPHET SUFFERED FOR MANKIND

Among the indications of the Prophet's love for mankind is the untold sufferings he endured at the hands of his opponents whom he forgave with such ease after his victory.

When the Holy Prophet started his work almost all the people of his city opposed him even though they had known him for all of his life as a man of exceptional integrity and intelligence. They at first subjected him to verbal attacks, jeers and insults. But later they started to combine verbal attacks with physical aggression. They would lay thorns in his way and throw garbage and dust on him. On one occasion he returned with dust still on his head. One of his daughters rose, with tears in her eyes, to wipe it off. The Prophet was more hurt to see tears in his daughter's eyes than the treatment he himself received from his fellow citizens. He comforted her, saying: "My daughter, weep not, for verily the Lord will be your father's helper."

Once the city populace tried to inflict a different type on injury on the Prophet. When one day he went out for an errand, not one of the people in the streets looked at him or spoke to him or jeered or insulted him. This, their silent way of saying to the Prophet, "You are not one of us because you speak against our traditional ways" hurt the Prophet more than the jeers and insults he was used to hearing before.

When the Prophet felt that he was not getting anywhere with the Makkans, he started to turn more and more to outsiders who came to Makkah for pilgrimage. But his efforts among the pilgrims were frustrated by men like Abu Lahab who would follow the Prophet and cry aloud: "Believe him not, he is a lying renegade". One day this especially grieved the Prophet. But all he did was to look upward and say, "O Lord if You will it would not be thus!".

In the year 620 C.E., the Prophet decided to travel outside Makkah, so that he could preach his message without being followed by his Makkan enemies. The city of Al-Tayf was the natural first choice. Situated about sixty miles east of Makkah, it was the nearest city of importance. Accompanied only by Zayd, the Prophet made a tiring journey through barren rocky defiles. He spent ten days in Al-Tayf preaching to the tribal chiefs as well as common people. But they all rejected him saying they did not want to spoil relations with the Makkans for the sake of a new religion. As the days passed, the people of Al-Tayf became more and more hostile, until the tenth day they began to hoot him through the streets and pelt him with stones. Even as he fled the city, a relentless mob pursued him and did not desist until they had chased him two or three miles across the sandy plain to the foot of the surrounding hills. There, tired and with blood flowing from both his legs, the Prophet took refuge in one of the orchards. Zayd who had endeavored to shield the Prophet against the stones thrown at him was wounded in the head.

After a couple of years the Prophet managed to get sufficient support in one Arabian city - Medina - and decided to move there. But his enemies in Makkah plotted to murder him before he could emigrate to Medina, a plot that came very close to being successful.

Even after his escape from hostile Makkah to the relatively friendly Medina the suffering of the Prophet continued. The Quraysh and other Arab tribes under their influence frequently waged battles against him and his followers. In Medina itself the Jews vexed and frustrated the Prophet with their wily plots and at one time even tried to poison him. The hypocrites, the secret enemies of the Prophet who pretended to be Muslims, were also busy in intrigues and whisper campaigns against the Prophet, a particularly nasty example of which is provided by their accusations against the Prophet's wife Ayesha which were as painful for the Prophet as for Ayesha herself. Sometimes even the believers unintentionally caused pain to the Prophet. They would, for example, sometimes impolitely walk away from him leaving him alone standing by himself, as is witnessed by the following verse in the Qur'an:

"When they see some (opportunity of) trade or some amusement they rush headlong towards it and leave you standing alone..." (62:11)

These and many other things did the Holy Prophet suffer over a period of many years. He did not have to. Just before he started his mission he had everything that men generally hope for: health, a prosperous business, a loving wife, fine children, faithful relatives and friends as well as the trust and respect of his fellow citizens. If he wanted he could have led as comfortable a life as any in Makkah. But he chose the road of suffering and hardship. He did so for the love of the very people who ignorantly persecuted him and for the welfare of the whole of mankind.

THE MEANING OF THE PROPHET'S SUFFERING

Like all aspects of the Prophet's life, his suffering has profound lessons for us. It teaches us that this world is a battlefield between good and evil, truth and falsehood, justice and oppression and that although God has willed that in the long run goodness, truth and justice will always be victorious. He has also willed that this victory will not be made too easy.

The suffering of the Prophet is also a vivid reminder for us that whereas man has tremendous potential for goodness he also has an enormous potential for evil. The Prophet represents the ultimate in human potential for goodness while the opposition that his work inspired in his countrymen and which he gradually conquered by his love and wisdom represents the ultimate in human potential for evil. But we must not condemn those who persecuted the Prophet. For the Prophet's suffering was caused by that potential for ignorance and obstinacy that is found in all of us. Who knows that some of us would not have thrown garbage on the Prophet or persecuted him in some other way if we had been living in Makkah of his time? After all, men far greater than us, e.g. Hadhrat 'Umar and Hadhrat Khalid bin Walid at one time persecuted the Prophet. No, the Prophet did not suffer in order that we may condemn anyone. He suffered so that we may have hope and humility. He suffered so that we may find out how much potential there is within us for goodness and how much potential there is within us for ignorance and obstinacy - the root causes of all evil. We need to see both potentials within us. The first one gives us hope in our destiny and in the destiny of man generally and the second one gives us humility. And humility and hope is what we need in order to prosper.

Thus the Prophet's suffering should make us think of the potential of evil that we all have within us and make us determined to overcome that evil. The best way to overcome evil is to love the Prophet, for the more we love the Prophet the more we will strengthen the element of goodness in us and the more capable we will become to overcome evil.

 

[thefreesyrian]

That is the real problem . Most people think of themselves as "normal" muslims and others to be "abnormal muslims" . If you have not read the history or never bothered to study our own books , or have no interest in religion , this does not make you normal and others abnormal .
About your suggestion , I already answered in a post that we are a Republic and not a Direct Democracy . In a republic , majority can not take away certain inaleinable rights . So you cant enforce this on basis of simple majority .

Normal and abnormal i agree with u is subjective...but normality is defined by the majority.
In iran, normality is shia procession and outlawing of sunni mosque. In saudia arabia, shia procession are not allowed.

 

[BATMAN]

Arent u tired of labelling muslim as wahabi, yazidi...i read the twenty pages, not a single time i read pity for the victims. That's sad how much sectarian some people are here

My friend on this forum if you question the false propaganda against Saudi Arabia, you are labelled as wahabi and you are hated for ever after... i'm one they call with hate slurs like wahabi /arbizad.... and they show their ugly hearts in the process.
I was being sarcastic... with the guy who is expecting fatiha over the dead.
The only explanation that comes to the mind is that the young kids, who are killed dead were evil indeed and so far there evil explained is they were deo bandis and i can only guess that that would has to do some thing with Arab Islam, which on this forum is called as wahabi.

The last thing you shall do on this forum is to question Iranian member, they are all holy cows, they go down to personal level immediately and actually get rewards for it.

Here people are sectarian to teeth, but most them haven't posted on this subject.

This Oscar mod has deleted my post just because, it was asking logical questions.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I think u are delusional too...excuse me, but people in iraq or in lebanon have highest litteracy rate, it didnt prevent of going to civil war.

Calling me delusional? After reading your first post, I think it's clear who is "delusional" here.

I'm trying to be the voice of reason here, and instead you are resorting to some hidden form of sectarianism yourself.

Moreover - despite lower literacy rates (as you claim here) - thanks to God Pakistani Muslims have not seen the level of devastation caused by sectarianism unlike what Iraqi or Lebanese (and now Syrian) are seeing. Alhamdolillah.

Those 3 countries should be etched in the mind of every Muslim and non-Muslim in Pakistan......examples of what we should NEVER allow, lest we go down a destructive path of un-ending violence.

Not to say we havent had our fair share of such violence. Every year during Moharram there will be some un-toward incidents. It's just lucky that this year went relatively smoother than other (worse) years like what we saw 2009 and 2010.

And I will appreciate it if you don't resort to name-calling on others -- you don't know me and I don't know you. So have some respect, brother. 

Normal and abnormal i agree with u is subjective...but normality is defined by the majority.
In iran, normality is shia procession and outlawing of sunni mosque. In saudia arabia, shia procession are not allowed.

Saudi Arabia and Iran are the main problem!!!! As is the historic issue which prominent Muslim scholars need to still address!

When Saudi Arabia and Iran stop their proxy games, 45-50% of the problem will be completely resolved.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Normal and abnormal i agree with u is subjective...but normality is defined by the majority.
In iran, normality is shia procession and outlawing of sunni mosque. In saudia arabia, shia procession are not allowed.

Normality is not necessarily defined by majority , And it can be argued upon but as I have got your point , I need you to understand a few things about us . Neither we are Saudia (monarchy) nor we are Iran {95% shia} . We are 20 % Shia , 20 % Deoband , 6 % wahabi and 48 % barelvi muslims . So none of your rules can be applied in Pakistan practically . We have to coexist peacefully , no other option.

Just one possibility . That our state declares Shia to be a non Muslim minority , then there would be no processions . And that is not possible

 

[BATMAN]

Normal and abnormal i agree with u is subjective...but normality is defined by the majority.
In iran, normality is shia procession and outlawing of sunni mosque. In saudia arabia, shia procession are not allowed.

Who told you in Saudi Arabia Shia processions are not allowed?
Actually, in Saudi Arabia no one is allowed to take religion to street but only shia.

You can see 2013 procession picture at below given link.
Timeline Photos - Voice of Shia (official) | Facebook

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Yazidi is a term loosely used....i think its not right to automatically assume Wahhabis are Yazidis; I've even met wahhabi who are very orthodox but they are not sectarian or political in nature. Just very pious and observant and literal in their interpretation of Quran.


To me -- the Yazidis and their like-minded people are the ones who are against Ziarat of shrines of the Prophet (PBUH) and the people of Ahl-ul-Bayt school of thought. They destroyed Imam Hassan’s shrine in Baghi in Medina and Imam Hussain’s shrine in Karbala. Recently, they have spread the rumor that when you go to Hajj, you should not go to visit the Prophet’s (PBUH) shrine in Medina. And even more recently -- you saw what they've done in Syria -- destroying or damaging beautiful ancient shrines such as that of Sayyeda Zeynab....as bad as what Assad the butcher has done against historical mosques like that one in Homs (Khalid Bin Walid Masjid)


Lets go back to the history of Islam:


Abu-Sofyan fought against the Prophet (PBUH) and Islam for 20 years and finally 3 years before the Prophet’s (PBUH) death, accepted Islam when Mecca was defeated. Moavieh Ibn Abu-Sofyan fought with Imam Ali for 30 years because Imam Ali was advocating social justice (ADL) and piety and Moavieh wanted to rule and live like Feron and Kasra. Yazid ibn Moavieh finally murdered Hussain Ibn Ali to stop Amre Be Maroof and Nahye Az Monkar (enjoying good deeds and forbidding evil deeds) by Hussain Ibn Ali.


it doesnt matter what kind of Muslim you are.....you must have respect for humanity, you must have respect for the Prophet (SAWS) as well as his FAMILY -- those who did service in the spreading and implementation of Islam. . .


they did more for Islam than the tyrannical murderers and repudiators of Islamic teachings! The same types we see today in 2013! I hope they all have hell awaiting them in their next life.

Let Allah be the first and final judge.

 

[BATMAN]

All the people in this pictures shall be identified and be handed over to military courts.

Sectarian clashes leave eight dead in Pakistan - Yahoo News

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

All the people in this pictures shall be identified and be handed over to military courts.

Sectarian clashes leave eight dead in Pakistan - Yahoo News

make an example out of the miscreants --- those who attacked police officers/law enfrocement and those responsible for the murder of 8 and injury of 60 people in broad daylight and those responsible for the torching of public and private property

they should be answerable to the Anti Terrorism Courts; harshest punishment should apply.

 

[BATMAN]

Normality is not necessarily defined by majority , And it can be argued upon but as I have got your point , I need you to understand a few things about us . Neither we are Saudia (monarchy) nor we are Iran {95% shia} . We are 20 % Shia , 20 % Deoband , 6 % wahabi and 48 % barelvi muslims . So none of your rules can be applied in Pakistan practically . We have to coexist peacefully , no other option.

Just one possibility . That our state declares Shia to be a non Muslim minority , then there would be no processions . And that is not possible

Human life should have most priority, not any procession or holy cow / horse.

If I'm the President, i will do what ever it takes to save human lives.... processions in current period are nothing less than a security risk... and **** to exploitation, as you pointed... that foreign elements were present.

Again, discussing some facts, i have been to every where in the world, Shias of Pakistan in west only curse Pakistan. They claim asylum by telling lies of having no religious freedom in Pakistan and western govt. give them asylum, as they were waiting for them.

Ironically, same people have no complaints when they are not even allowed to wear hijab, plus much more. While, having a holiday and making noise/disturbance is a far fetched theory.

BTW.. where do you keep looking for the figures you gave? I didn't knew of any census based on sects.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Again, discussing some facts, i have been to every where in the world, Shias of Pakistan in west only curse Pakistan. They claim asylum by telling lies of having no religious freedom in Pakistan and western govt. give them asylum, as they were waiting for them.

I have heard that in the past 3 years there were some Shiias who took asylum in Australia.....but let me assure you that every Shiia i ever met overseas are hyper-nationalistic about Pakistan....well educated people in respectable positions who donate money to Pakistani charities, re-patriate money, and in fact I knew one who invited Pakistani qawwali artists from Pakistan for them to stay at her house and invited American and other guests...giving good name to Pakistan through soft things like music and the arts

whoever runs away from Pakistan on "asylum" reasons - i lost respect for them. I call that running away like coward.


I'm ashamed of myself to bring in such a personal fact about my own family....but i had a distant cousin who ended up being a damn gay. He escaped Pakistan to live a life in California USA (on the ground of "asylum") and you bet that very few of us keep in touch with that guy.

 

[BATMAN]

make an example out of the miscreants --- those who attacked police officers/law enfrocement and those responsible for the murder of 8 and injury of 60 people in broad daylight.

they should be answerable to the Anti Terrorism Courts; harshest punishment should apply.

No terrorist shall be left unpunished.
We shall not tolerate a single killing in Pakistan, be it for personal reason.
I like to add those people, who teach there kids religious hate.
Only thing i'm afraid is that this was continuation of current statements of Iran.
I know some people are more loyal to mullah than them self.
I also suspect that it could be a political thing by political mafia, who have no religion as well.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

No terrorist shall be left unpunished.
We shall not tolerate a single killing in Pakistan, be it for personal reason.
I like to add those people, who teach there kids religious hate.
Only thing i'm afraid is that this was continuation of current statements of Iran.
I know some people are more loyal to mullah than them self.
I also suspect that it could be a political thing by political mafia, who have no religion as well.

all it is is money trail and mafia, as well as brain-washing

as many of you know -- i (a MUSLIM) happen to belong to Shiia school of thought. But i DESPISE those who worship Khomeni or other figures who - quite frankly - were just political figures not religious figures. They were part of an Iranian revolution, not a religious revolution or one that concerned Pakistani Nation.

I am as anti-sectarian as they come. That's why I have Muslim friends -- Sunnis/Shiias/Salafists/Ahmedi and non-Muslim friends. Through training and through experiences - I learned one thing.

Be true to yourself, work like a slave to serve your nation, and help the poors. Automatically you are a pure and genuine person.

Purity is 90% of the faith.

 

[BATMAN]

I have heard that in the past 3 years there were some Shiias who took asylum in Australia.....but let me assure you that every Shiia i ever met overseas are hyper-nationalistic about Pakistan....well educated people in respectable positions who donate money to Pakistani charities, re-patriate money, and in fact I knew one who invited Pakistani qawwali artists from Pakistan for them to stay at her house and invited American and other guests...giving good name to Pakistan through soft things like music and the arts

whoever runs away from Pakistan on "asylum" reasons - i lost respect for them. I call that running away like coward.


I'm ashamed of myself to bring in such a personal fact about my own family....but i had a distant cousin who ended up being a damn gay. He escaped Pakistan to live a life in California USA (on the ground of "asylum") and you bet that very few of us keep in touch with that guy.

I believe every word you wrote... and do not doubt a bit on what you state.
This country belong to those who believe in the guidance of our great Quaid.
Shia of Pakistan shall help to find a better solution for those processions, walking from one corner of city to other is not practical these days, and children shall be kept away.

Once, I met a drunken English soldier in a bar, he was drunk... we started chatting and obviously we started discussing the situation in Pakistan.... time about 2007-2008.
Long story short, he mentioned that according to his reliable connections the plan is to build uprisal using tribals, against army in FATA and than further on he gave me a fix date for this uprising.
I naturally, stopped talking and looked at his face in complete disbelief... he realized his mistake and walked away from me and never came back to me again.
Funny part, i didn't knew what to do where to report.... i did what i could but obviously i had no feed back.... and there was no uprisal on that day but guess what happened,,,, bomb blast on Shia procession in Lahore on that exact date. I don't know if it is connected to my story or it was just a random terror attack... but those days terror attacks were not so common.

Trust me, i swear to Allah, i have more stories of my short life.. which i cannot share here. including attack on us in Lahore and its investigation.
BTW.. I'm no practicing Muslim mostly belief.