VIEW : Siachen: a costly war for Pakistan and India

[illusion8]

While it is great for sermons, my point remains valid. With Pakistan having clearly shown that it is not averse to crossing the LoC when the situation suits, why should India vacate Siachen?

If Pakistan wants India out of Siachen, something's gotta give. Pakistan cannot expect India to walk away from Siachen without anything in return.

The MFN status and the promise of better relations could have been the virtual carrot.

 

[Bang Galore]

If Pakistan wants India out of Siachen, something's gotta give. Pakistan cannot expect India to walk away from Siachen without anything in return.

Something that they seem not to get. They lost soldiers, they are finding it difficult going and they seem to expect the Indian army to spare them the blushes & give up territory that is in India's possession. Why India should do that & for what purpose is never made clear. But then again, these are the very people who probably expect India to hand them Kashmir on a platter. No end to pipe dreams, I guess.

The MFN status and the promise of better relations could have been the virtual carrot.

Really? There is no one in the GoI smoking that fine a pot !

 

[karan.1970]

@ajtr asked me to post the following reply:

Contrarian,
Indians always talk of hifi words like moral, values,ethics etc. when speaking about Kashmir and Pakistan...But did you guys ever thought for a while what high moral values ethich indians showed when they crossed the IB into east pakistan.What moral values ethics indians showed when they started proxy war through their trained terrorists of mukti bahini and send them inside pakistan.Now when pakistan pays you by same coin you cry sissy like young girl and talk of ethics, moral values etc.

What moral values ethics you showed when you shot down atlantique.Arey atleast pakistan show better ethics than you guys when they returned your chopper along with its senior officers safely with in hrs instead of shooting it down.

I would say from my experience that pakistanis have better ethics and moral than indians.

Message for @AJTR

being banned means not posting thru proxies either..

and around morals and ethics, well, I for one believe that one's sense of morality should never stop one from doing something which is right

And about India crying when paid back in same coin, well that crying/protesting is the part of International diplomacy, at which, Pakistani diplomats frankly suck like anything..

And about returning our 2 senior officers in the chopper, well, we are still ahead of you in returning military folks by a figure of approx 89,998 (if you get my drift )

 

[illusion8]

Really? There is no one in the GoI smoking that fine a pot !

How about if one adds up a supposed transit route to Afghanistan and beyond through Pakistan? deal??

 

[third eye]

General kayani has given an open offer to India balls is in India court as far as confidence is concerned things have a way of changing fast.

Without intending to find fault please but the correct word would be ' The Ball is in India's court.."

Putting an ' s' behind ball can change the implied meaning..very drastically !

 

[SQ8]

Without intending to find fault please but the correct word would be ' The Ball is in India's court.."

Putting an ' s' behind ball can change the implied meaning..very drastically !

Implied meaning should never change from that either.
India's balls should never leave its court.

The question is not of the ball being in India's court.. its of whose balls are in whose hands.
Gayari literally took out a central Ops centre for | Pakistan's Siachen effort..
and in one fell swoop.. nature did what Indian Bofors could not do in 20 years.
the Pak COAS is not doing it out of just good gesture, he is doing it because its no longer possible to rebuild the Siachen effort.
And there is no winning it..
Keeping the status quo costs both countries dearly... but only one can afford the material costs.

 

[SamantK]

Implied meaning should never change from that either.
India's balls should never leave its court.

The question is not of the ball being in India's court.. its of whose balls are in whose hands.
Gayari literally took out a central Ops centre for | Pakistan's Siachen effort..
and in one fell swoop.. nature did what Indian Bofors could not do in 20 years.
the Pak COAS is not doing it out of just good gesture, he is doing it because its no longer possible to rebuild the Siachen effort.
And there is no winning it..
Keeping the status quo costs both countries dearly... but only one can afford the material costs.

Till now no one can accuse India that it wanted to use the bofors for the past 20 years..

 

[arp2041]

Implied meaning should never change from that either.
India's balls should never leave its court.

The question is not of the ball being in India's court.. its of whose balls are in whose hands.
Gayari literally took out a central Ops centre for | Pakistan's Siachen effort..
and in one fell swoop.. nature did what Indian Bofors could not do in 20 years.
the Pak COAS is not doing it out of just good gesture, he is doing it because its no longer possible to rebuild the Siachen effort.
And there is no winning it..
Keeping the status quo costs both countries dearly... but only one can afford the material costs.

Oscar Sir, with all due respect, i wanna ask a question, that since India has more or less stabilized in Siachin, it's economy can afford the costs associated with it, but the talk that both countries are incurring cost of it, is actually a cover for the financial stress that Pakistan is finding hard to afford, i mean IA is on higher ground, money is not a constrain, also the soldiers are not forced to go there (they volunteer), than why should India bother for Pakistan & PA even though Pakistan is not accepting the Indian demand of demarcating the ground positions??? I mean we don't want another Kargil, we will incur much more cost, than we incur now, if another Kargil happens.

 

[karan.1970]

Oscar Sir, with all due respect, i wanna ask a question, that since India has more or less stabilized in Siachin, it's economy can afford the costs associated with it, but the talk that both countries are incurring cost of it, is actually a cover for the financial stress that Pakistan is finding hard to afford, i mean IA is on higher ground, money is not a constrain, also the soldiers are not forced to go there (they volunteer), than why should India bother for Pakistan & PA even though Pakistan is not accepting the Indian demand of demarcating the ground positions??? I mean we don't want another Kargil, we will incur much more cost, than we incur now, if another Kargil happens.

You need to read Oscar's post again.. This time more carefully..

 

[arp2041]

You need to read Oscar's post again.. This time more carefully..

Oops, thanks mate, i took it wrong, my bad, but actually i wanted to ask this question to all Pakistani members over here who say again & again the same things - cost is incurred by both, Siachin is of no strategic value, many soldiers died, etc.

 

[Bhairava]

Never knew Gayari was Pak's Central Ops center for Siachen..

 

[MandarK]

We didnt abandoned siachen in 1991......How can we do it now??

 

[Secur]

The Indian army controls all of the 70 kilometres (43 mi) long Siachen Glacier and all of its tributary glaciers, as well as the three main passes of the Saltoro Ridge immediately west of the glacier—Sia La, Bilafond La, and Gyong La

Wrong ! Your own sources confirm that Pakistan control 1/3 of the glacier , what is the fuss all about if we just aren't on it ? ... Also , the third pass known as Gyong La is under Pakistani control ...

Siachin is of no strategic value, many soldiers died, etc.

Is it ? Do explain ? Can anyone come down or go up and fight ? If not , then we just hold onto it for prestige ... Nothing else ...

 

[Bhairava]

My only fear used to be that this stupid WKK PM of ours would fall for this and do something stupid on Siachen..but with all the skeletons tumbling out of the closet in recent weeks and months, that fear of mine has vanished.

 

[janon]

Wrong ! Your own sources confirm that Pakistan control 1/3 of the glacier , what is the fuss all about if we just aren't on it ? ... Also , the third pass known as Gyong La is under Pakistani control ...

Wrong, Gyong la has been fully under Indian control since operation meghdoot.

Gyong La - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Siachen Glacier / Operation Meghdoot