VIEW : Siachen: a costly war for Pakistan and India

[SQ8]

Never knew Gayari was Pak's Central Ops center for Siachen..

It was the spoke to the wheel in that sector.
So figuratively.. yes.

 

[Secur]

Wrong, Gyong la has been fully under Indian control since operation meghdoot.

I ask you to read your beloved " BR " ... Some Indian posted a link from it ... I just cant post it again since that website is banned here ...

It was the spoke to the wheel in that sector.
So figuratively.. yes.

Oscar , confirm me about the Gyong La ...

 

[Bhairava]

It was the spoke to the wheel in that sector.
So figuratively.. yes.

BTW could the avalanche have been due to the incessant Indian shelling over the years which might have weakened the glacier structurally ?

 

[janon]

It was the spoke to the wheel in that sector.
So figuratively.. yes.

What did Pakistan lose, apart from the lives? Equipment? Only 2 or 3 senior officers died, right? So why would it impact pak's siachen operations in a big way? Other than, as I said, the huge number of lives lost of course.

 

[SQ8]

Wrong, Gyong la has been fully under Indian control since operation meghdoot.

Gyong La - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Siachen Glacier / Operation Meghdoot

While I do not intend to dispute the claim entirely...
I dispute anything quoted out of wikipedia.. even if it is something as basic as claiming that the earth is curved.
Better links are always appreciated, wikipedia.. is the information equivalent of an unpatrolled street..
Anybody and everybody can take a crap on it.

 

[Secur]

While I do not intend to dispute the claim entirely...
I dispute anything quoted out of wikipedia.. even if it is something as basic as claiming that the earth is curved.
Better links are always appreciated, wikipedia.. is the information equivalent of an unpatrolled street..
Anybody and everybody can take a crap on it.

Even the most biased Indian sources put the Gyong La under Pakistani control ...

In two ways, India ’s position has already been compromised, as Pakistan controls the Gyong La pass overlooking Shylok and Nubra rivers, along with the road that links mainland India to Leh, and China ’s de facto hold over Aksai Chin. Therefore, leaving any leeway for adjustments in borders could lead to a threat looming over the forward posts near the Karakoram pass, Ladakh and virtually the entire northern part of the state. The glacier itself may not be strategically valuable, but it could be used by a determined foe to threaten the strategically advantageous position currently held by India . - BR

 

[janon]

Even the most biased Indian sources put the Gyong La under Pakistani control ...

In two ways, India ’s position has already been compromised, as Pakistan controls the Gyong La pass overlooking Shylok and Nubra rivers, along with the road that links mainland India to Leh, and China ’s de facto hold over Aksai Chin. Therefore, leaving any leeway for adjustments in borders could lead to a threat looming over the forward posts near the Karakoram pass, Ladakh and virtually the entire northern part of the state. The glacier itself may not be strategically valuable, but it could be used by a determined foe to threaten the strategically advantageous position currently held by India . - BR

You are right, many Indian sources do say that.

(They also say that India won it militarily, and then Pakistan reoccupied it by breaking subsequent promises. Which kind of explains Indian reluctance to trusting Pakistanis again. Not to mention kargil. I bring this up only in relevance to the thread, not as a response about gyong la.)

While I do not intend to dispute the claim entirely...
I dispute anything quoted out of wikipedia.. even if it is something as basic as claiming that the earth is curved.
Better links are always appreciated, wikipedia.. is the information equivalent of an unpatrolled street..
Anybody and everybody can take a crap on it.

Well in general, for general knowledge about most things, Wikipedia is as credible as any other encyclopedia. On contentious issues and short articles, maybe not so. So while I agree that a wiki link is not proof of a claim, I wouldn't share your extreme distrust for it.

 

[SamantK]

I dispute anything quoted out of wikipedia.. even if it is something as basic as claiming that the earth is curved.
Better links are always appreciated, wikipedia.. is the information equivalent of an unpatrolled street..
Anybody and everybody can take a crap on it.

The references provided are good in many cases.. Obviously if one wants to research, the references do provide an excellent starting point.

 

[SQ8]

What did Pakistan lose, apart from the lives? Equipment? Only 2 or 3 senior officers died, right? So why would it impact pak's siachen operations in a big way? Other than, as I said, the huge number of lives lost of course.

Infrastructure,
The cost of building a single floor 10 x 10 brick and mortar bare building in siachen is equal to the cost of double story house in a city. every brick has its cost x 10.
That investment took years..cant be replaced within a day.

The references provided are good in many cases.. Obviously if one wants to research, the references do provide an excellent starting point.

In many articles they are not.. point being..
Why should one trust one unreliable source for anything..

 

[rubyjackass]

However, if Pakistan were to do so, it would put India under a lot of pressure to reciprocate. Morally, New Delhi’s position would be so untenable that it would have to withdraw the forces. Even if we rule out this line of thinking, Pakistan would have to assure India that Islamabad would not try to occupy the vacant area if and when New Delhi withdraws.

Whatever Pakistan decides, it has to have the nod of General Kayani. He cannot go against the wishes of the Pakistani people who want peace with India. General Kayani can neither be oblivious to the fact that a military takeover in Pakistan is well-nigh impossible when all political parties have now joined hands to uphold the dictum of democratic change.
There are voices which may say ‘Can we trust them?’ By not trusting, both have fought three wars, apart from the Kargil incursion. Let them, for a change, trust each other. Otherwise, history will hold the present governments responsible for letting the opportunity for peace go by.

India is not ready to withdraw without a clear demarcation. This is evident from the day to day news and the reactions from Indian generals. Clearly, after Kargil, people will never trust Pakistan, especially on face value. I mean just a decade ago, Pakistan did not want to respect LoC and now India has to withdraw without even extending LoC?!!

Even the OP is being naive in asking for unconditional withdrawal on both sides. Or the author actually thinks Indians are stupid. They expect India to simply throw away advantage just like that with not even a document authenticating the positions.

Looks like Pakistan did not get a hang of how peace works. They expect to win territory without giving up anything. It is going to be a compromise, if it ever will be something. And nobody will gain anything to show off, but they will gain a lot.

 

[rubyjackass]

You are right, many Indian sources do say that.

(They also say that India won it militarily, and then Pakistan reoccupied it by breaking subsequent promises. Which kind of explains Indian reluctance to trusting Pakistanis again. Not to mention kargil. I bring this up only in relevance to the thread, not as a response about gyong la.)

Sounds like there is an interesting story behind this. Please provide some link to source.

 

[OrionHunter]

^^^^I dont see Indian Govt or Army officers suggesting to Vacate those lands UNCONDITIONALLY??

Looks like some posters here want India to:

Hand over Siachen UNCONDITIONALLY
Hand over Sir Creek UNCONDITIONALLY
Hand over all the water resources UNCONDITIONALLY
And finally hand over India too, UNCONDITIONALLY!!

But even that won't satisfy them! They'd probably even want Rakhee Sawant to be handed over to them UNCONDITIONALLY!

 

[Jackdaws]

@ajtr asked me to post the following reply:

Contrarian,
Indians always talk of hifi words like moral, values,ethics etc. when speaking about Kashmir and Pakistan...But did you guys ever thought for a while what high moral values ethich indians showed when they crossed the IB into east pakistan.What moral values ethics indians showed when they started proxy war through their trained terrorists of mukti bahini and send them inside pakistan.Now when pakistan pays you by same coin you cry sissy like young girl and talk of ethics, moral values etc.

What moral values ethics you showed when you shot down atlantique.Arey atleast pakistan show better ethics than you guys when they returned your chopper along with its senior officers safely with in hrs instead of shooting it down.

I would say from my experience that pakistanis have better ethics and moral than indians.

None of it would have happened had you recognized the will of the people and had handed over power to the democratically elected leader of all of Pakistan - Mujib Rehman. You created a civil war in your nation. Sure, India took advantage of the situation but India didn't start it. You brought it upon yourselves.

 

[karan.1970]

None of it would have happened had you recognized the will of the people and had handed over power to the democratically elected leader of all of Pakistan - Mujib Rehman. You created a civil war in your nation. Sure, India took advantage of the situation but India didn't start it. You brought it upon yourselves.

Well, some Pakistanis do have the habit of blaming the wind and not the person who lit the match for their house burning down

 

[Umair Nawaz]

None of it would have happened had you recognized the will of the people and had handed over power to the democratically elected leader of all of Pakistan - Mujib Rehman. You created a civil war in your nation. Sure, India took advantage of the situation but India didn't start it. You brought it upon yourselves.

same goes for Kashmir too in that valley u have 7 lakh army just to oppress innocent ppl just because they r Muslims they share cultural,moral, religious and language values with a Muslim Country n when Pakistan rightfully helps them to do that, with same logic that u claim to have done in East Pakistan then that doesnt go down with yr Gov.