Vietnamese communists call for end to communism

[ChineseTiger1986]

@Sonyuke_Songpaisan @ChineseTiger1986 What's going on ?

Some KMT fans are getting thrilled again just because Vietnam wants to abandon the communist party.

What a bunch of day dreamers.

 

[Kyle Sun]

Some KMT fans are getting thrilled again just because Vietnam wants to abandon the communist party.

What a bunch of day dreamers.

Calm down.

Not our concern.

 

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

@Sonyuke_Songpaisan @ChineseTiger1986 What's going on ?

Chinesetiger is big fan of me. he replies to all my post. especially my post about KMT.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Chinesetiger is big fan of me. he replies to all my post. especially my post about KMT.

Because I love to educate you ignorant KMT fanboys.

 

[Kyle Sun]

Because I love to educate you ignorant KMT fanboys.

@Sonyuke_Songpaisan @ChineseTiger1986 Be cool. Guys!!

 

[senheiser]

china should use Maoist rebels to destabilize Vietnam if they want Western democracy

 

[rcrmj]

lol, it is very good, as this will only bring chaos to that already pony country````

but what amazes me is that there are so many people here still line themselves up in ideologies, these were old cold war politics helped to draw a line between friends and enemies....what really matters are rule of law, pragmatism and rational planning, and no systems like 'communism' or 'democracy', can ensure of those (the former can lead to blind cultism, and the latter can lead to unnecessary fights and chaos)

anyway, if we keep more pressure on South China sea, we'd probably see more unrest from VN, and those filthy rich corrupted VN will use the opportunity to entice angry public by writing more of these nonsensical letters, therefore social unrest will be inevitable```well, should this case be viable, then we'd have one less backstabber

china should use Maoist rebels to destabilize Vietnam if they want Western democracy

their life their choice, sponsoring unrest is not our speciality, it is America's job

 

[xesy]

In order for socialism to be successful, it needs to implement accountability, it needs a system of checks and balances, something that can only be done when people are free to choose their local representatives, majors, governors, etc. Otherwise, the system will be essentially corrupted, which is the situation in Vietnam and China.

Sound like democracy to me. Democracy has its strong points, but also has certain weakness. Uncle Ho chose communism because it suited old VN better than democracy. But to the modern VN, communism might limit its development in certain aspects. Like I said abandoning communism now is not a good choice, but changes are always welcome.

By the way you are a really good poster, I have read a few of your posts and they had high quality. Keep up the good work.

 

[Carlosa]

Sound like democracy to me. Democracy has its strong points, but also has certain weakness. Uncle Ho chose communism because it suited old VN better than democracy. But to the modern VN, communism might limit its development in certain aspects. Like I said abandoning communism now is not a good choice, but changes are always welcome.

By the way you are a really good poster, I have read a few of your posts and they had high quality. Keep up the good work.

Thank you man !

Actually, I was not talking about democracy as in the western sense. In Vietnam right now, the national assembly is elected by popular vote and some independent candidates are allowed, so what I meant is an expansion of that to all local levels including city governors and province governors, that way people have local control of their affairs and they can control corruption. All of that can be done within the VCP also and allowing independent candidates would be a plus. Makes sense?

 

[AKIRAKUMA]

@ Gorbachev COME ON!
Communist Party of Vietnam needs you.
(颜色革命的最高境界，我越来越佩服美利坚了）手动斜眼

 

[gambit]

Communist VN did one thing that South VN could not do: unifying VN. South VN did little to no effort of unifying VN during its existence.

You have a very poor understanding of the VN War. If SVN was bent on unifying VN, we would not be having this discussion.

In hindsight, what make you think unification made the country any better ? Did VN improved economically after unification ? Most likely you are borned after war. I am a survivor of it. I have an emotional tie to the war. You do not. Do you really think that NVN would allow the people to chose which side as the model for unification ? No, NVN would not allow and the bloodbath after unification proved that. From 1975 on, VN continued to slide into the economic and political shithole that it is today.

VN needs changes, that's for sure. VCP needs to be reformed, that's for sure. Maybe one day VN will forsake communism and choose a new political system, but it's not today or tomorrow. The people need time to prepare both their minds and bodies, because change always causes pain and loss. I don't think VN ready for that yet.

Now you sound like the Chinese. How do YOU know when the people is 'ready' ? By what metrics ?

After the next few generations, your children will call themselves the future of America, not VN anymore.

Wrong. I have already done my part. For decades, I have financially support the underground democracy movement in VN. Ho Chi Minh City will be called Sai Gon again, like how I once knew it. Communism will be purged and will be remembered as a bad experiment, like how the Russians and Germans admitted to be today.

 

[xesy]

You have a very poor understanding of the VN War. If SVN was bent on unifying VN, we would not be having this discussion.

In hindsight, what make you think unification made the country any better ? Did VN improved economically after unification ? Most likely you are borned after war. I am a survivor of it. I have an emotional tie to the war. You do not. Do you really think that NVN would allow the people to chose which side as the model for unification ? No, NVN would not allow and the bloodbath after unification proved that. From 1975 on, VN continued to slide into the economic and political shithole that it is today.


Now you sound like the Chinese. How do YOU know when the people is 'ready' ? By what metrics ?


Wrong. I have already done my part. For decades, I have financially support the underground democracy movement in VN. Ho Chi Minh City will be called Sai Gon again, like how I once knew it. Communism will be purged and will be remembered as a bad experiment, like how the Russians and Germans admitted to be today.

Your first point: SVN didn't even try to unify VN, because the US desired a second Korea. And if you prefer living in luxury like South Korea while fearing one day a nuke missle might come raining down upon you, you are welcome. In a sense VNese are much more extreme than North Korean ("Độc lập hay là chết"/ Independence or death).

Your second point: The people are ready when they demand the change, with their voice or even with force. The people are ready when they need changes, not because someone tell them they need those, but because they can't live without changes anymore.

Your third point: If you are truly a patriot, then you should have stayed in VN. If you cannot change the ruling party, then you could have tried to change the party from inside.

I love VN as a country, not as a flag or a political system. Fighting for democracy is good, but it should not affect the normal daily life of ordinary citizens. Most democracy movements in VN often go along with anti-govt propaganda, causing quite a trouble for normal people who don't care about politic. That's why I am against most of them.

Thank you man !

Actually, I was not talking about democracy as in the western sense. In Vietnam right now, the national assembly is elected by popular vote and some independent candidates are allowed, so what I meant is an expansion of that to all local levels including city governors and province governors, that way people have local control of their affairs and they can control corruption. All of that can be done within the VCP also and allowing independent candidates would be a plus. Makes sense?

Actually voting system in VN is kind of hard to understand. I am 24 right now, and I should have voted 1 or 2 times by now. But I haven't voted for anyone yet, nor do I know when will the next election come.

 

[Rechoice]

It was not only Stalin's model. Soviet was actually directly transformed from an empire to a "communism" country, before 1917 they were an empire, since then they turned out to be socialist and communism, it was too fast, there was something backward left in Soviet's system. In China, it's different, but communism is still an dominated ideology, the communism evolved itself in China, to accommodate the new changes in our society, which means the policy has consistency and the progress we have made is effective.
Off-topic: Do your students learn Marxism-Leninism at school or college?

What is "collective farm" in Soviet Union and "Gong she ren min" or 公社人民 in China ?
What is " Kulac" in Soviet Union and "Land Lord", or 地主 in China ?

generally, China copied Soviet Stalin model, same did Vietnam in the past with some modifications.

 

[William Hung]

To Viet members, are these guys (they signed the letter) from military or just police?

Lieutenant-General Nguyen Trong Vinh
Lieutenant-General Le Duy Mat

I just read the letter in Vietnamese, the main purpose of the letter is warning of VCP to innovate,
suggest not to couple with China by secret agreements, and bring China to court.

Also, they blame about the policy of non-align ... means Vietnam should align with others to confront the threat of the country.

hmmm, I don't think its just a warning. Because a warning can usually be done behind closed doors, under the table. No need to make it public if it is just warning and debate between party members.

The fact that they made it public means that the internal conflict must be pretty big and one side is getting frustrated.

 

[Viet]

To Viet members, are these guys (they signed the letter) from military or just police?

Lieutenant-General Nguyen Trong Vinh
Lieutenant-General Le Duy Mat



hmmm, I don't think its just a warning. Because a warning can usually be done behind closed doors, under the table. No need to make it public if it is just warning and debate between party members.

The fact that they made it public means that the internal conflict must be pretty big and one side is getting frustrated.

I don´t know the men. but from the rank "Lieutenant-General " I would say they are from the armed forces.