Vietnam ordered stealth destroyers P28 of India

[William Hung]

Its not so simple as you mentioned; I said that as advice specifically for him because he is particularly been targeted by the chinese mod and he used to be banned from this forum for a long time, are you aware of that? Is it better to be banned long term? I don't think you can support the Vietnamese cause much if you are not here at al because you are banned.

I had my share of big fights with the chinese in the past and I just find it not worth it, the more you get involved, the more trolling you get.

I respect your position, but I keep my advise to him, that is specific to him, for the specific reasons that I just mentioned.

There is no such thing as “supporting the Vietnamese cause” here. This is just a forum man, not the UN assembly lol.

If the forum is fair and friendly to a group, then it will attract members from that group. If it is biased against that group, then it will not attract them...its that simple and thats all Im saying. Obviously it is the latter case for vn members...even your friend was crying why he was the only one to post in the VN military forum.

And no, I’m not here to fight the Chinese, I hardly post at all. For me its simple: their forum their rule, just leave and let them be. And many Viet members had left. Seems like you dont get it, you are telling us to tolerate the chinese trolling/insults and just stay and converse with you, and not only that, but to give info about VN military. A few might do, but as you can see, most Viets dont bother to. As I said, it is because you are non-VN so you can still feel perfectly ok with it.

And I wasnt giving advice or talking about BoQ77 specifically, he is older than me. I was just talking about the situation in general.

 

[Carlosa]

There is no such thing as “supporting the Vietnamese cause” here. This is just a forum man, not the UN assembly lol.

If the forum is fair and friendly to a group, then it will attract members from that group. If it is biased against that group, then it will not attract them...its that simple and thats all Im saying. Obviously it is the latter case for vn members...even your friend was crying why he was the only one to post in the VN military forum.

And no, I’m not here to fight the Chinese, I hardly post at all. For me its simple: their forum their rule, just leave and let them be. And many Viet members had left. Seems like you dont get it, you are telling us to tolerate the chinese trolling/insults and just stay and converse with you, and not only that, but to give info about VN military. A few might do, but as you can see, most Viets dont bother to. As I said, it is because you are non-VN so you can still feel perfectly ok with it.

And I wasnt giving advice or talking about BoQ77 specifically, he is older than me. I was just talking about the situation in general.

Here is the difference, you are talking in general and I was just talking specifically about him.

I didn't say anything about tolerating, I always fight when I get insulted, but there is a difference between defending yourself and asking for a fight.

You say I don't get it? I was practically gone for quite some time, I started a little bit again, but its a far cry from before. Other than this thread in the Indian forum, I'm not very active in PDF, I mainly read. Its perfectly fine if most Viets don't want to talk to me, I'm very fine talking to the ones that like to talk and talking to the Indian members and a few others. I like defense issues in general, not just Viet defense issues. I don't force anybody to talk to me and I don't like to tell others what they should do either and I expect the same.

 

[William Hung]

Here is the difference, you are talking in general and I was just talking specifically about him.

I didn't say anything about tolerating, I always fight when I get insulted, but there is a difference between defending yourself and asking for a fight.

You say I don't get it? I was practically gone for quite some time, I started a little bit again, but its a far cry from before. Other than this thread in the Indian forum, I'm not very active in PDF, I mainly read. Its perfectly fine if most Viets don't want to talk to me, I'm very fine talking to the ones that like to talk and talking to the Indian members and a few others. I like defense issues in general, not just Viet defense issues. I don't force anybody to talk to me and I don't like to tell others what they should do either and I expect the same.

Yes, telling someone to stay and converse with you and at the same time saying ignore the trolling/insults knowing that the trolling/insults wont go away is just like saying “just tolerate” it, especially if the said trolling /insults were unprovoked.

Anyway, why I have spoken up in this thread? other than the reasons I’ve given, its also because the details in this thread related to VN is way off here. I’ve quickly read the whole thread and many info said about VN Navy is wrong here. For example, in the viet language forum/fb, the Sigma deal has been confirmed as being cancelled, and specific reasons has been given. Alternative ships had also already been hinted in the viet language forum, and P28 is not one of them, they are something else completely different that had not being discussed here. So its ok if you want to discuss Indian/Israel weapons for your self-interest, but if you were trying to figure out issues about VN navy, then you guys have mostly been wrong and wasting time...although it is still interesting to read. Im not attacking you here...just trying to fulfil you in and maybe try save you time to not speculating on Vn navy plans that wont come true.

And of course, I won’t give that info for the same reasons I mentioned above. And I suspect it is for the same reason why other viets are not correcting you guys or fulling you in here.

 

[Carlosa]

Yes, telling someone to stay and converse with you and at the same time saying ignore the trolling/insults knowing that the trolling/insults wont go away is just like saying “just tolerate” it, especially if the said trolling /insults were unprovoked.

Anyway, why I have spoken up in this thread? other than the reasons I’ve given, its also because the details in this thread related to VN is way off here. I’ve quickly read the whole thread and many info said about VN Navy is wrong here. For example, in the viet language forum/fb, the Sigma deal has been confirmed as being cancelled, and specific reasons has been given. Alternative ships had also already been hinted in the viet language forum, and P28 is not one of them, they are something else completely different that had not being discussed here. So its ok if you want to discuss Indian/Israel weapons for your self-interest, but if you were trying to figure out issues about VN navy, then you guys have mostly been wrong and wasting time...although it is still interesting to read. Im not attacking you here...just trying to fulfil you in and maybe try save you time to not speculating on Vn navy plans that wont come true.

And of course, I won’t give that info for the same reasons I mentioned above. And I suspect it is for the same reason why other viets are not correcting you guys or fulling you in here.

I think you are a bit obsessed with this thing about tolerating being insulted, but its your right to express your views. No problem man.

 

[BoQ77]

you guys should not worry about me.
I'm all for truth and responsible to what I posted, as you noticed the guy Beidou2xxx shadowed me and reported me as many as he can.
We have to stay withthat, @Zero_wing also noticed that
I fight with lies, liars.. Even I thanked several times to any meaningful post bY Chinese members.
Again I´m with truth and against Lies no matter from whom. Or I quit.

Thanks @Carlosa
I understand your useful advice. Actually, I pay less attention to any fight for fight.
I created some threads non-direct related to China like Vietnam - USA relationship.
Or about Vietnamese themselves. Or Vietnam and foreign investors who leaving China.

In hot topic with both Vietnam and China, I'm hearing from both side, provide info from both side, surprisingly notice recently Russia at China side.

 

[William Hung]

I think you are a bit obsessed with this thing about tolerating being insulted, but its your right to express your views. No problem man.

Man, I was just trying to correct the meaning of “tolerate” (although Im not a good english speaker). You denied that you were saying “tolerate” the trolling/insults, but in essence, you were indeed suggesting “tolerate the trolling/insults from the chinese, just come talk/give info to us”, was it not? anyway, ignore this issue for now. You are free to carry on with your conversation here, I’m not stopping you.

My points were these:

A lot of the details related to VN navy/CG in this thread was inaccurate. If you were just trying to discuss for fun then thats ok, but if you were trying to speculate or ascertain some kind of VN navy procurement plans, then you are going into the wrong direction, might just be wasting time. Remember we had a really long thread about this on PDF a long time ago:

It did not came true.

And more importantly, why didn’t more vn members came to correct some inaccurate details or to give more details in this thread? there are other viet lurkers who read some of the threads here, even the ones from the vn language forum with more accurate info but wont speak up. Well, I tried to give the reasons in my first couple of posts in this thread. But as I said, you seem to not get it being a non-vietnamese and just call me obssessed.

I’m not stopping you to continue in this thread...other viet lurkers with more accurate info are still interested to read opinions and speculations from foreigners about vn military. Just saying you guys have been heading in the wrong direction with your speculation.

 

[Carlosa]

Man, I was just trying to correct the meaning of “tolerate” (although Im not a good english speaker). You denied that you were saying “tolerate” the trolling/insults, but in essence, you were indeed suggesting “tolerate the trolling/insults from the chinese, just come talk/give info to us”, was it not? anyway, ignore this issue for now. You are free to carry on with your conversation here, I’m not stopping you.

My points were these:

A lot of the details related to VN navy/CG in this thread was inaccurate. If you were just trying to discuss for fun then thats ok, but if you were trying to speculate or ascertain some kind of VN navy procurement plans, then you are going into the wrong direction, might just be wasting time. Remember we had a really long thread about this on PDF a long time ago:

It did not came true.

And more importantly, why didn’t more vn members came to correct some inaccurate details or to give more details in this thread? there are other viet lurkers who read some of the threads here, even the ones from the vn language forum with more accurate info but wont speak up. Well, I tried to give the reasons in my first couple of posts in this thread. But as I said, you seem to not get it being a non-vietnamese and just call me obssessed.

I’m not stopping you to continue in this thread...other viet lurkers with more accurate info are still interested to read opinions and speculations from foreigners about vn military. Just saying you guys have been heading in the wrong direction with your speculation.

Yes, I deny saying “tolerate” the trolling/insults, that's just your interpretation, but we are not going to agree, right? So lets live it there.

I'm having a good time discussing with the Indian members, actually, I always enjoyed interacting with them, they are in a class by itself because of their knowledge and good manners, something that many others only wish they could have, so I'm very fine here.

And regarding the secret info that only the Vietnamese seem to know, yeah sure, I've seen plenty of for sure rumors come and go. In the end, its only for real when there is a foreign announcement or when you actually see it. No worries, Its just my time that I'm wasting.

I'm having a good time debating what the Viet navy should have and hearing opinions and whether it happens or not, its secondary, this is kind of like an intellectual exercise for me, so no problem.

 

[BoQ77]

My question was about the price, I have a reason why I'm asking you this. Are you sure that the price of $50 million is correct and that it covers everything including all sensors and weapons?

Yes. Its about that with 16x KH35 and Radar, fire control.
Guided Missiles is the only big difference between Molniya and TT400TP.

Without it, I choose TT400TP over Mol. 16x KH35 also shorten the operating duration of Molniya. they should find another platform with more displacement and integrate lighter naval gun.

 

[Carlosa]

Yes. Its about that with 16x KH35 and Radar, fire control.
Guided Missiles is the only big difference between Molniya and TT400TP.

Without it, I choose TT400TP over Mol.

Thank you man, I was just trying to get an idea about the cost of the sensors and weapons suite, which I estimate at about $40 million, in order to get the cost of adding such equipment and capability to a DN-2000 in order to make it a hybrid coast guard / light warship.

 

[William Hung]

And regarding the secret info that only the Vietnamese seem to know, yeah sure, I've seen plenty of for sure rumors come and go. In the end, its only for real when there is a foreign announcement or when you actually see it. No worries, Its just my time that I'm wasting.

Well, if it is info related to Vietnamese military, then logically there will be secret info only known to some Vietnamese (not saying thats me).

As for rumors, yes indeed there are plenty of false rumors given by Vietnamese. I’m not sure if I’m reading you correctly here, but it seems like you were making fun of vietnamese rumors in that paragraph.....but however I can recall you using “rumors” that you have received from other vietnamese, including from myself, and rehash them on PDF as from reliable “sources”, some of which I can see in this thread...but now you seem to be making fun of our “rumors” in that paragraph? Why the sudden change of face?

Anyway, I have already said enough that need to be said. Sorry for interrupting your thread. You can have the last words.

 

[BoQ77]

As you didnt notice, many DN2000 completed unarmed but water jet cones.
Let measure the tension by looking at the armament of VCG.

Atm, they found nowhere the tension urge them for missiles armed.
for near future, the most powerful for VCG is only dual 23mm gun.

There is better option, always as we look at available modules. Now these modules for transportable supply to Spratly islands.

Another reason, they await for embargo ended to get modern sensors, weapons for it. Not from Russia, my friend.
Japan agreed to provide radars for VCG, just google it.

If China start to put missiles onto their CG ships, Vietnam would do the same.

 

[Carlosa]

Well, if it is info related to Vietnamese military, then logically there will be secret info only known to some Vietnamese (not saying thats me).

As for rumors, yes indeed there are plenty of false rumors given by Vietnamese. I’m not sure if I’m reading you correctly here, but it seems like you were making fun of vietnamese rumors in that paragraph.....but however I can recall you using “rumors” that you have received from other vietnamese, including from myself, and rehash them on PDF as from reliable “sources”, some of which I can see in this thread...but now you seem to be making fun of our “rumors” in that paragraph? Why the sudden change of face?

Anyway, I have already said enough that need to be said. Sorry for interrupting your thread. You can have the last words.

You have a very interesting way of interpreting things.

Rumors is what this is always all about it, isn't it? How often does the Vietnamese military actually announce new military purchases? Or the details and amounts of such deals? That would not very convenient for them right? Need to keep everything secret so that they can hide the corruption, or are you going to tell me that they are not massively corrupted? I know enough about what's going on here man. I'm not blind.

Don't play with words about my meaning of rumors, rumors is what almost everything is based on and that's that, we are all using them so don't make funny interpretations now.

As you didnt notice, many DN2000 completed unarmed but water jet cones.
Let measure the tension by looking at the armament of VCG.

Atm, they found nowhere the tension urge them for missiles armed.
for near future, the most powerful for VCG is only dual 23mm gun.

There is better option, always as we look at available modules. Now these modules for transportable supply to Spratly islands.

Another reason, they await for embargo ended to get modern sensors, weapons for it. Not from Russia, my friend.
Japan agreed to provide radars for VCG, just google it.

If China start to put missiles onto their CG ships, Vietnam would do the same.

Of course I know that they are not armed and that they have water guns. You didn't get what I was thinking. Look at the last few pages and you'll see what I mean by arming the DN-2000, that's to use it as a hybrid OPV in the navy, not in the coast guard.

As you didnt notice, many DN2000 completed unarmed but water jet cones.
Let measure the tension by looking at the armament of VCG.

Atm, they found nowhere the tension urge them for missiles armed.
for near future, the most powerful for VCG is only dual 23mm gun.

There is better option, always as we look at available modules. Now these modules for transportable supply to Spratly islands.

Another reason, they await for embargo ended to get modern sensors, weapons for it. Not from Russia, my friend.
Japan agreed to provide radars for VCG, just google it.

If China start to put missiles onto their CG ships, Vietnam would do the same.

I understand you. Yes, Vietnam really needs to get out of Russia's shadow, there are plenty of sources out there, including India, etc. Depending on Russia for so long has been very costly and anyway, Russia also sells everything to China, need to use Russia only on what is strictly necessary.

 

[BoQ77]

You have a very interesting way of interpreting things.

Rumors is what this is always all about it, isn't it? How often does the Vietnamese military actually announce new military purchases? Or the details and amounts of such deals? That would not very convenient for them right? Need to keep everything secret so that they can hide the corruption, or are you going to tell me that they are not massively corrupted? I know enough about what's going on here man. I'm not blind.

Don't play with words about my meaning of rumors, rumors is what almost everything is based on and that's that, we are all using them so don't make funny interpretations now.



Of course I know that they are not armed and that they have water guns. You didn't get what I was thinking. Look at the last few pages and you'll see what I mean by arming the DN-2000, that's to use it as a hybrid OPV in the navy, not in the coast guard.

Lol. They were designed at initial as you expect.
Why we have to put heavy load to small boats while spare those frigate size unarmed or light armed?
No.
The logic behind that, DN2000 cant survive even after you put a naval gun on it if come to shooting game.
They would be with missiles and modern sensors as designed or leave in light armed ( relaxing tension purpose). It is just not the right time.

Who innocent to think Exocet missiles ordered for Sigma class deal that never come to an end.
Sigma class deal could be the cloak coat only.

What if I estimate the Bow would be elevated for naval gun and some short range MiCA or SEARAM or CIWS ? look at the height compare to the workers, it's about 3 meters more after elevated.
And I found the 2x quad AShM at the same place with Sigma-class design, at rescue boats site.

Look at incomplete No. 8002 from above, again

 

[Carlosa]

Lol. They were designed at initial as you expect.
Why we have to put heavy load to small boats while spare those frigate size unarmed or light armed?
No.
The logic behind that, DN2000 cant survive even after you put a naval gun on it if come to shooting game.
They would be with missiles and modern sensors as designed or leave in light armed ( relaxing tension purpose). It is just not the right time.

Who innocent to think Exocet missiles ordered for Sigma class deal that never come to an end.
Sigma class deal could be the cloak coat only.

What if I estimate the Bow would be elevated for naval gun and some short range SEARAM or CIWS ? look at the height compare to the workers, it's about 3 meters after elevated.
And I found the 2x quad AShM at the same place with Sigma-class design, at rescue boats site.

Look at incomplete No. 8002 from above, again

My point was simply to use the DN-2000 design, since it is a proven hull, as a OPV for the navy that is lightly armed and very cheap in order to be able to build many ships quickly. Such ships would be used for patrol purposes, not for actual fighting, but they still have some decent weapon systems. This is a way to add many ships to the navy in a cheap and fast way. Otherwise, have to keep waiting for years and years for the regular navy ships. I think such ship would cost about $130 to 150 million, that's very cheap.

Again, Im talking ships for the navy, not the coast guard.

 

[BoQ77]

My point was simply to use the DN-2000 design, since it is a proven hull, as a OPV for the navy that is lightly armed and very cheap in order to be able to build many ships quickly. Such ships would be used for patrol purposes, not for actual fighting, but they still have some decent weapon systems. This is a way to add many ships to the navy in a cheap and fast way. Otherwise, have to keep waiting for years and years for the regular navy ships. I think such ship would cost about $130 to 150 million, that's very cheap.

Again, Im talking ships for the navy, not the coast guard.

I means DN-2000 actually is for navy, they are navy ship under white paint. Our budget is limited, as you know.
MOD command the VCG as you may know.