Vietnam ordered stealth destroyers P28 of India

[Carlosa]

I means DN-2000 actually is for navy, they are navy ship under white paint. Our budget is limited, as you know.
MOD command the VCG as you may know.

I understand, but I'm talking about using them as regular navy ships, grey paint, same as Gepards, not white or blue paint. To use them as cheap warships with a weapon / sensor suite like Molniya or so. Just for patrol and face offs with the chinese.

I say this, precisely because the budget is limited, Its a way to get many ships going and cheap.

 

[Penguin]

I'd like to point out that the latest chinese coast guard vessel is a 10,000 ton vessel, so the chinese strategy is very clear. They want to be able to muscle out everybody.

That's why Vietnam had to get into the DN-2000 and 4000 vessels. Bigger ship will ram you real bad as was shown during the oil rig episode.

Well, the largest Chinese CG vessel is actually a resupply ship to support (artificial) island bases, it is not a patrol vessel (but I'm sure it can also support those e.g. with VERTREP)

Fast interceptor crafts are needed for speed as these are fast, cheaper & effective against piracy.

That's why e.g. the Holland class, but other OPVs too, have a stern docking ramp.

Vietnam EEZ as regulated by UNCLOS means 200 nm from baseline, and some islands of Paracels and Spratlys.
It is not as above imaginery.
China now challenge even most of 200nm Eez of Vietnam, not only overlapped Eez near Hainan, they based on their 9 dashed line to even challenge Malaysia Philippines Eez which has no chance to overlap China 200nm EEZ.

Thanks, that is correct, but its doesn't take away from the point I was attempting to make using the illustration

Thank you man, I was just trying to get an idea about the cost of the sensors and weapons suite, which I estimate at about $40 million, in order to get the cost of adding such equipment and capability to a DN-2000 in order to make it a hybrid coast guard / light warship.

Check what Indian Navy paid for to get the final pair of Veer class craft.

 

[BoQ77]

Well, the largest Chinese CG vessel is actually a resupply ship to support (artificial) island bases, it is not a patrol vessel (but I'm sure it can also support those e.g. with VERTREP)


That's why e.g. the Holland class, but other OPVs too, have a stern docking ramp.

Thanks, that is correct, but its doesn't take away from the point I was attempting to make using the illustration

I just correct the map as someone may confusing.

 

[Carlosa]

Well, the largest Chinese CG vessel is actually a resupply ship to support (artificial) island bases, it is not a patrol vessel (but I'm sure it can also support those e.g. with VERTREP).

No, there is a new chinese cutter that is actually 12,000 tons, that's not a supply ship.
https://gcaptain.com/new-chinese-coast-guard-cutter-nicknamed-the-beast-to-patrol-south-china-sea/

 

[BoQ77]

Well, the largest Chinese CG vessel is actually a resupply ship to support (artificial) island bases, it is not a patrol vessel (but I'm sure it can also support those e.g. with VERTREP)


That's why e.g. the Holland class, but other OPVs too, have a stern docking ramp.

Thanks, that is correct, but its doesn't take away from the point I was attempting to make using the illustration

I just correct the map as someone may confusing.

No, there is a new chinese cutter that is actually 12,000 tons, that's not a supply ship.
https://gcaptain.com/new-chinese-coast-guard-cutter-nicknamed-the-beast-to-patrol-south-china-sea/

That ship is for challenge bigger ship of JCG. Most of CCG ship is about 1400 ton. Like 461xx

In 2014 oil rig incident what we saw is 1400 and above vs 400 ton and 200 ton

 

[Carlosa]

That ship is for challenge bigger ship of JCG. Most of CCG ship is about 1400 ton. Like 461xx

Well, they have the whole range of sizes, they want to be able to challenge everything, everybody, everywhere.

 

[Penguin]

No, there is a new chinese cutter that is actually 12,000 tons, that's not a supply ship.
https://gcaptain.com/new-chinese-coast-guard-cutter-nicknamed-the-beast-to-patrol-south-china-sea/

Yes, I know about that, that's the one I'm referring to. It is based on a PLAN AOR hull. Naturally it will be fitted out as all CG patrol ships. Given its size, it may well have cargo capacity to resupply outposts with goods, drinking water, fuel etc. It has capacity for large helicopters, hence the VERTREP reference (it can support smaller CG vessels in the area).

JAPAN coast guard:
Shikishima class (PLH)
Displacement: 6,500 tonnes (9,300 tonnes full load)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shikishima_class_(PLH)

 

[BoQ77]

Well, they have the whole range of sizes, they want to be able to challenge everything, everybody, everywhere.

coincidently, Vietnam built CG ship at one - third displacement compare to China CG

400 vs about 1300
4000 vs 12000

 

[BoQ77]

Do you have any information and comment about this or not? @Carlosa

 

[Carlosa]

Do you have any information and comment about this or not? @Carlosa

No, this is new to me, very interesting.

By the way, do you know the reasons why the Sigma project was canceled?

 

[BoQ77]

No, this is new to me, very interesting.

By the way, do you know the reasons why the Sigma project was canceled?

Vietnam didn't build 8x DN-2000 quite fast for no reason.That's real deal.
Sigma-class deal is real or not, we don't know.

This could translate as, Vietnam ever showed their attention to a modern design of warship that use Western technology, Sigma-class spring out as recommended by Damen as longterm partner ( similar offer could be from the Italian too ). And after some clashes, they realized the Sigma-class design couldn't meet the requirement in the future.
For example, the commitment from weapon, sensor suppliers are limited.

I think we shouldn't find out furthermore on that, but focus on DN-4000 to find new demand. That would explain better than digging in the old deal.

 

[Carlosa]

Vietnam didn't build 8x DN-2000 quite fast for no reason.That's real deal.
Sigma-class deal is real or not, we don't know.

This could translate as, Vietnam ever showed their attention to a modern design of warship that use Western technology. And after some clashes, they realized the Sigma-class design couldn't meet the requirement in the future.
I think we shouldn't find out furthermore on that, but focus on DN-4000 to find new demand. That would explain better than digging in the old deal.

Interesting, ok, thank you.

 

[BoQ77]

I understand, but I'm talking about using them as regular navy ships, grey paint, same as Gepards, not white or blue paint. To use them as cheap warships with a weapon / sensor suite like Molniya or so. Just for patrol and face offs with the chinese.

I say this, precisely because the budget is limited, Its a way to get many ships going and cheap.

I means, DN-2000 designed with full arm including ASh missiles and SAM capable. They are just unarmed for a reason.

When needed, they could be quickly turn to warships.
Who could argue DN-2000 wasn't built at warship standard ?

 

[Carlosa]

I means, DN-2000 designed with full arm including ASh missiles and SAM capable. They are just unarmed for a reason.

When needed, they could be quickly turn to warships.
Who could argue DN-2000 wasn't built at warship standard ?

Nice, I just saw the pic that Viet posted in the other thread. Well, Its good to know that my theory was right. Now, I'd like to see some ships coming out soon.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

Man, I was just trying to correct the meaning of “tolerate” (although Im not a good english speaker). You denied that you were saying “tolerate” the trolling/insults, but in essence, you were indeed suggesting “tolerate the trolling/insults from the chinese, just come talk/give info to us”, was it not? anyway, ignore this issue for now. You are free to carry on with your conversation here, I’m not stopping you.

My points were these:

A lot of the details related to VN navy/CG in this thread was inaccurate. If you were just trying to discuss for fun then thats ok, but if you were trying to speculate or ascertain some kind of VN navy procurement plans, then you are going into the wrong direction, might just be wasting time. Remember we had a really long thread about this on PDF a long time ago:

It did not came true.

And more importantly, why didn’t more vn members came to correct some inaccurate details or to give more details in this thread? there are other viet lurkers who read some of the threads here, even the ones from the vn language forum with more accurate info but wont speak up. Well, I tried to give the reasons in my first couple of posts in this thread. But as I said, you seem to not get it being a non-vietnamese and just call me obssessed.

I’m not stopping you to continue in this thread...other viet lurkers with more accurate info are still interested to read opinions and speculations from foreigners about vn military. Just saying you guys have been heading in the wrong direction with your speculation.

How you know thats not come true? Lets wait and see, what Goa Shipyard Ltd producing for Vietnam.

@Carlosa We need to wait and see what is the GRSE weapon system offer to Philippines Navy, from there we can conclude many things.

How realistic is the expectation of a P28 variant, with almost equal firepower of a Kolkata class (P15A)? Just missing 2 AK630s, 8 less Brahmos, 1 less helicopter and traded in RBUs for 8 Brahmos. Why is not the IN acquiring this, assuming lower cost than P15A?

If that is the case then why Indian Navy calling P-17A as frigate project, which consist same number and quantity of weapon systems as in Kolkata class and Vizag Class?

Thats why I say never believe in sources of Janes especially for Asia which have only one person in India and Vietnam, that too only do copy and paste from sources like ToI, Ajai Shukla , Shiv Aroor etc etc.