Vietnam ordered stealth destroyers P28 of India

[Carlosa]

No, these ships aren't ordered, no one in thread claimed that these ships are ordered. Also, you know source is claiming corvettes as destroyer, so you can guess reliability of source.

Have to also consider that the destroyer label might come from the Vietnamese side of the deal since a ship like this would never be seen as a corvette in Vietnam, they would call it a frigate or a destroyer, particularly considering the strong weapon systems. The Petya class ASW ships are called destroyers in Vietnam.

 

[Carlosa]

India exported 1 Kora-class corvette(1350 tonnes) to Mauritius in $50M in 2014 without weapons except guns.
Range: 4,000 mi (6,400 km) at 16 kn (30 km/h)

• 16 × Kh-35 (SS-N-25) SSM (4 x quad KT-184 launchers)
• 1 × 76 mm gun (AK-176 or Otobreda 76 mm)
• 2 × 30 mm AK-630 CIWS
• Igla-1E SAM
• Aircraft carried: 1 HAL Dhruv

That's actually a nice ship, a bit like the Molniya ships, but bigger.
If that ship gets taken to the next level with some redesigning of the superstructure for stealth, a better mast, etc, that could be a nice ship for VN. The helo pad area could be used for an air defense VLS.

 

[MKC]

Have to also consider that the destroyer label might come from the Vietnamese side of the deal since a ship like this would never be seen as a corvette in Vietnam, they would call it a frigate or a destroyer, particularly considering the strong weapon systems.

None of the navies can label these ships as destroyer except Japan.
There have been destroyers smaller than 2000 tonnes & cruiser smaller than 4000 tonnes but now all navies use term frigate for any ship smaller than 5000.
This is frigate size ship, IN using the term corvette is because of just ASW capability of ship & no other major weapon.

 

[Carlosa]

None of the navies can label these ships as destroyer except Japan.
There have been destroyers smaller than 2000 tonnes & cruiser smaller than 4000 tonnes but now all navies use term frigate for any ship smaller than 5000.
This is frigate size ship, IN using the term corvette is because of just ASW capability of ship & no other major weapon.

I understand, but in Vietnam it would be easily called a destroyer considering the weapon systems. The Petya class is a good example and anyway, each navy follows its own designations.

 

[MKC]

That's actually a nice ship, a bit like the Molniya ships, but bigger.
If that ship gets taken to the next level with some redesigning of the superstructure for stealth, a better mast, etc, that could be a nice ship for VN. The helo pad area could be used for an air defense VLS.

That requirement can be fulfilled with Next Generation Missile Vessels but these ships will not have ASW capability.

 

[Carlosa]

That requirement can be fulfilled with Next Generation Missile Vessels but these ships will not have ASW capability.

That class looks interesting. Well, considering their role, ASW is not really necessary in those ships.

 

[MKC]

I understand, but in Vietnam it would be easily called a destroyer considering the weapon systems. The Petya class is a good example and anyway, each navy follows its own designations.

I told there have been smaller destroyers & cruisers in IN too but that is the thing of past.
Petya-class were designated as frigates by other navies too except IN.

That class looks interesting. Well, considering their role, ASW is not really necessary in those ships.

That will be clear only after commissioning of first ship(that is only hope as all things aren't clear about Kamorta even after commissioning of two ships.).

 

[Carlosa]

I told there have been smaller destroyers & cruisers in IN too but that is the thing of past.
Petya-class were designated as frigates by other navies too except IN..

In VN the Petya class ships are called destroyers, which is pretty crazy, but oh well.

I can see that India has finally taken control of almost all the elements of the naval programs and is able to do all classes of ships including aircraft carriers, that's really nice; the areas where it needs assistance are not many now, I think some elements of aircraft carriers, nuclear propulsion for subs, etc. That's not much.

 

[RISING SUN]

Another issue with Sigma (which is no fault of Damen, but it is what it is) is that it comes with expensive French missiles as standard configuration, Mica and Exocet when compared to the cost of KH-35 ($1.7 million for VN to self build) and Barak 8 ($1.1 million), the difference starts to add many millions real fast. @Viet

BARAK-8 one unit cost is 25 million dollar. It includes all package like missile, system unit, training & logistics. Its only drawback is that one has to install MF Star to get the best of it. With other radar coupling its performance might not be at what it is currently. And I would seriously urge you to talk in a mild manner as though Penguin might not be aware of BARAK capabilities but his knowledge on defense equipment is high grade at least this much I have observed. Thank you.

 

[Carlosa]

BARAK-8 one unit cost is 25 million dollar. It includes all package like missile, system unit, training & logistics. Its only drawback is that one has to install MF Star to get the best of it. With other radar coupling its performance might not be at what it is currently. And I would seriously urge you to talk in a mild manner as though Penguin might not be aware of BARAK capabilities but his knowledge on defense equipment is high grade at least this much I have observed. Thank you.

I'm very well aware of Penguin's knowledge and I do respect that, I'm actually a fan of his, but we are not always going to agree on everything.

 

[Penguin]

Have to also consider that the destroyer label might come from the Vietnamese side of the deal since a ship like this would never be seen as a corvette in Vietnam, they would call it a frigate or a destroyer, particularly considering the strong weapon systems. The Petya class ASW ships are called destroyers in Vietnam.

Corvette, frigate, destroyers, the label is detemrined by capability not size per se.

As for Vietname using the term destroyer, this may go back to the WW2 era USN navy parlance 'destroyer escort', which is 'frigate' in Royal navy context. You see this with Iran too. Altough there too is a language thing: the language doesn't really have the appropriate term other than 'combat ship' or 'battleships (by which is NOT meant IOWA class BB)

 

[Carlosa]

Corvette, frigate, destroyers, the label is detemrined by capability not size per se.

As for Vietname using the term destroyer, this may go back to the WW2 era USN navy parlance 'destroyer escort', which is 'frigate' in Royal navy context. You see this with Iran too. Altough there too is a language thing: the language doesn't really have the appropriate term other than 'combat ship' or 'battleships (by which is NOT meant IOWA class BB)

Do you happen to know what the DN-4000 that Vietnam is getting for the coast guard looks like? Is it a derivative of the Holland class?

 

[Penguin]

Do you happen to know what the DN-4000 that Vietnam is getting for the coast guard looks like? Is it a derivative of the Holland class?

DN-2000
Displacement: 2,400-2,500 (full load, presumably)
Dimensions: 90.5m long x 14m wide x 4m (7m depth from main deck)
Propulsion: diesel electric propulsion with 4 Caterpillar C3516C, total 12,016 horsepower
Top speed: 21 kn
Endurance: 40 days and nights at sea
Range: 5,000 nautical miles at 'economical speed' (probably 12 to 15 kn)
Crew: 30 persons + rescue team 40 persons
Armament: 2 weapons position for 14.5mm single HMG and 2 for twin 23mm cannon
Modern navigation and communications, including SATCOM
All activities of the vessels are controlled by a computer system.
Landing platform for a 14 ton naval helicopter e.g. Ka-28
Can tow distressed ships with a displacement of up to 2,200 tons
Capacity to house 120 rescued persons.
Two 150-200m range watercannon, capable of spraying 6.6 m3 / minute

Similar, for different agency, with reinforced bow.

http://www.vietnambreakingnews.com/2014/07/vietnam-fisheries-surveillance-receives-modern-ship/

See also https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/south-east-asia-military-news-reports-data-etc.t5809/page-82

DN-4000
Displacement: 4000 tons
Dimensions: 120 m length x 16 m beam

http://www.viethaingoai.net/canh-sat-bien-viet-nam-se-co-tau-tuan-tra-4.000-tan.1.html

According to Ha Son Hai Colonel - General Director of the United firms said the upcoming Autumn River Song Collection will launch at least 2 new building marine police boat versatile by design DN-4000
Reportedly, last started in 2016, Song Thu completed Partnership signed with the DN-4000 paired first vessel. The vessel will have the displacement of over 4,000 tons, more than double compared with the DN-2000 class ships before.
According to Colonel Ha Son Hai, expected in 2019 the vessel will be completed, handed over to the law enforcement unit of the Vietnam Sea.
http://soha.vn/canh-sat-bien-vn-nhan-bao-nhieu-tau-dn-4000-hien-dai-va-khi-nao-20160412173801248.htm

If that is the DN-4000 depicted, it looks more like a progression on the DN-2000, than based on Holland class.
See also https://defence.pk/threads/watch-out-china-vietnams-coast-guard-will-fight-back.396938/#post-7632656

 

[BoQ77]

- About Vietnam budget: Let me summarize:
1. 2x Gepard-class frigated received, 2x ongoing build, negotiating 2x more.
or 2x Sigma-class thought to be on order
Each ship costs at least 300 million dollars.
2. 6x Kilo-class subs ordered back to 2009, 5x received. Total Cost is nearly 3 billion dollars.
3. 8x DN-2000 2200 ton completed,...

What @Carlosa feel a pity is why Vietnam don't pay more attention to more capable designs, but stick to Gepard class or Sigma class at 300 million dollars each. To him, instead of putting more than 1 billion dollars for 4x Gepard class , why don't change to other design like heavy armed, stretched hull P28, to turn it to an anti air capable light destroyer, with displacement about 4000 tonnages and above.

Vietnam DN-2000

 

[Carlosa]

DN-2000
Displacement: 2,400-2,500 (full load, presumably)
Dimensions: 90.5m long x 14m wide x 4m (7m depth from main deck)
Propulsion: diesel electric propulsion with 4 Caterpillar C3516C, total 12,016 horsepower
Top speed: 21 kn
Endurance: 40 days and nights at sea
Range: 5,000 nautical miles at 'economical speed' (probably 12 to 15 kn)
Crew: 30 persons + rescue team 40 persons
Armament: 2 weapons position for 14.5mm single HMG and 2 for twin 23mm cannon
Modern navigation and communications, including SATCOM
All activities of the vessels are controlled by a computer system.
Landing platform for a 14 ton naval helicopter e.g. Ka-28
Can tow distressed ships with a displacement of up to 2,200 tons
Capacity to house 120 rescued persons.
Two 150-200m range watercannon, capable of spraying 6.6 m3 / minute

Similar, for different agency, with reinforced bow.

http://www.vietnambreakingnews.com/2014/07/vietnam-fisheries-surveillance-receives-modern-ship/

See also https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/south-east-asia-military-news-reports-data-etc.t5809/page-82

DN-4000
Displacement: 4000 tons
Dimensions: 120 m length x 16 m beam

http://www.viethaingoai.net/canh-sat-bien-viet-nam-se-co-tau-tuan-tra-4.000-tan.1.html

According to Ha Son Hai Colonel - General Director of the United firms said the upcoming Autumn River Song Collection will launch at least 2 new building marine police boat versatile by design DN-4000
Reportedly, last started in 2016, Song Thu completed Partnership signed with the DN-4000 paired first vessel. The vessel will have the displacement of over 4,000 tons, more than double compared with the DN-2000 class ships before.
According to Colonel Ha Son Hai, expected in 2019 the vessel will be completed, handed over to the law enforcement unit of the Vietnam Sea.
http://soha.vn/canh-sat-bien-vn-nhan-bao-nhieu-tau-dn-4000-hien-dai-va-khi-nao-20160412173801248.htm

If that is the DN-4000 depicted, it looks more like a progression on the DN-2000, than based on Holland class.
See also https://defence.pk/threads/watch-out-china-vietnams-coast-guard-will-fight-back.396938/#post-7632656

Thank you, that's the same information we have in Vietnam and I had also noticed that is quite different than the Holland class, so I was hoping that more info was available on the Dutch side, but it seems like we'll have to wait (as it is always the case with Vietnam's military projects).

Yes, a a progression of the DN-2000 seems right, Its clear then that it is a customized version for Vietnam or a new Damen design.