Vatican asked India for a religious undertaking: India refused says CBI Director

[Indrani]

Its generally not good to speak on behalf of others. Just a reminder.

Oops, sorry. I thought I was just being helpful in communicating your stance.

 

[Contrarian]

The very fact that you approve of such things seemingly with your words.

See, no one is advocating killing missionaries en masse or murdering them. Simply the thing is that people want to have laws that safeguard our collective cultures. Is that wrong?

Nope.
How do you propose that will be accomplished?

 

[Tshering22]

Nope.
How do you propose that will be accomplished?

By controlling vested news traders to stop twisting meaning.

Put it this way; if such laws come in, media will call Modi regime communal as it caters to sensitivities of Hindus and sister faiths.

But the current case where only the alleged Hindu right wing in other parts of India are being harrassed (I request you to search a bit on this because I have read a few cases where I don't have them on hand with me right now) for even raising genuine doubts or questions just because it 'offends' some communties.

This is exactly what the Uniform Civil Code is for.

One law for all.

Then tell me, why are 'some' people opposed to this?

With UCC, all riots will be crushed with a sledge hammer.

With UCC, all religions and cultures here will be asked to follow one civil law, just like in any civilized nation like Singapore, Germany etc.

With UCC, all will be looked at as Indians only.

Explain now that why the 'secular, vulnerable, poor' Peaceful people are opposed to UCC.

Can you?

http://www.voiceofresearch.org/doc/mar-2013/Mar-2013_12.pdf

Please tell me.

 

[Contrarian]

By controlling vested news traders to stop twisting meaning.

Put it this way; if such laws come in, media will call Modi regime communal as it caters to sensitivities of Hindus and sister faiths.

But the current case where only the alleged Hindu right wing in other parts of India are being harrassed (I request you to search a bit on this because I have read a few cases where I don't have them on hand with me right now) for even raising genuine doubts or questions just because it 'offends' some communties.

This is exactly what the Uniform Civil Code is for.

One law for all.

Then tell me, why are 'some' people opposed to this?

With UCC, all riots will be crushed with a sledge hammer.

With UCC, all religions and cultures here will be asked to follow one civil law, just like in any civilized nation like Singapore, Germany etc.

With UCC, all will be looked at as Indians only.

Explain now that why the 'secular, vulnerable, poor' Peaceful people are opposed to UCC.

Can you?

http://www.voiceofresearch.org/doc/mar-2013/Mar-2013_12.pdf

Please tell me.

I will ask a question and think before answering.
What is better - a sledge hammer approach - like UCC now - which will create uproar in not just Muslims but a substantial part of Hindus as well who believe in the misguided congressi secularism. There will be a literal showdown and there is a real risk that the goal will not be achieved. And not just this goal - of UCC, but future goals will become much harder. Infact, there is a real risk that Modi may not get elected for his 2nd term if this becomes a big enough issue.

Or..a silent and stealthy approach - like strengthening RSS and promoting Hindutva, taking over media. Building this and changing Hinduism to a more organized format and then implementing UCC and removing 370. In this case, most of the Hindus will atleast be backing this and only the Muslims will be against UCC.
And mind you, with the correct governmental support and monetary backing, the second approach will not take more than 10 years.

Kabir ka doha hai - jahan kaam ave sui, vahan ka kare tarwari.

 

[Tshering22]

I will ask a question and think before answering.
What is better - a sledge hammer approach - like UCC now - which will create uproar in not just Muslims but a substantial part of Hindus as well who believe in the misguided congressi secularism. There will be a literal showdown and there is a real risk that the goal will not be achieved. And not just this goal - of UCC, but future goals will become much harder. Infact, there is a real risk that Modi may not get elected for his 2nd term if this becomes a big enough issue.

Or..a silent and stealthy approach - like strengthening RSS and promoting Hindutva, taking over media. Building this and changing Hinduism to a more organized format and then implementing UCC and removing 370. In this case, most of the Hindus will atleast be backing this and only the Muslims will be against UCC.
And mind you, with the correct governmental support and monetary backing, the second approach will not take more than 10 years.

Kabir ka doha hai - jahan kaam ave sui, vahan ka kare tarwari.

I agree with both your paragraphs.

But what I am simply asking Secularists is that why are some 'secular minorities' opposed to becoming equal to Hindus and sister cultures?

After all, equality is what they all want right?

Then what is the problem?

Or is it that getting freebies in the name of reservations is something of a habit now?

That is my question.

 

[Manmohan]

Vatican doesn't care about the children and nuns who are sexually abused in its own churches.

Just a ploy to convert more people.

Pathetic!

 

[Indrani]

Hindus who wanted repeal of article 370 and UCC wont be voting for BJP again if this promise is not carried out or there is not a substantial progress in this direction. There is no guarantee that Modi's govt will win next elections with similar numbers and that the secularists wont engineer enough riots and propaganda about minority persecution to make sure Modi loses next election. So there we would have lost the chance to do anything about these issues at all by procastinating.

Next, how are we going to take over media? A few news channels okay, but what about God TV or Peace TV and the likes? Much of Indian pop culture is Hindutva based anyways and RSS is not into promoting Hinduism, but rather nationalism.

 

[Bang Galore]

Hindus who wanted repeal of article 370 and UCC wont be voting for BJP again if this promise is not carried out or there is not a substantial progress in this direction.

Firstly, I don't think your argument holds for all Hindus. Secondly, most people don't give a damn about article 370, knowledge about it is very limited and even arguments on this from those interested is very superficial & lacks understanding.(There was a very fine interview with Karan Singh on Headlines Today with Karan Thapar where a lot of light was shed on the topic) The essence of the aticle remains in name only, most of it being chipped away. That is why there is a chief minister & not a prime minister in J&K. I don't understand why Hindus alone, as you say, should be interested iin this article. In any case, it most likely won't be touched regardless of what some say.

India's federalism is a-symmetrical. Some states are more favourably treated than others. This is self evident from provisions in Article 370 (JK), 371A (Nagaland), 371B (Assam), 371C (Manipur) 371D,E and J (AP), 371F (Sikkim), 371G (Mizoram), 371I(Goa). We also have special provisions for the North East in the Constitution's Sixth Schedule where a strong independent local democracy exists. Other Tribal areas in other states are protected under the Fifth Schedule.
Legal illiteracy runs rampant on Article 370, by Rajeev Dhavan : Rajeev Dhavan, News - India Today

UCC is complicated and while very desirable is very difficult to attempt in Modi's first term. Maybe in a possible 2nd term. Will need more support in Parliament than there is currently. No magic wand anywhere.

 

[Biplab Bijay]

Firstly, I don't think your argument holds for all Hindus. Secondly, most people don't give a damn about article 370, knowledge about it is very limited and even arguments on this from those interested is very superficial & lacks understanding.(There was a very fine interview with Karan Singh on Headlines Today with Karan Thapar where a lot of light was shed on the topic) The essence of the aticle remains in name only, most of it being chipped away. That is why there is a chief minister & not a prime minister in J&K. I don't understand why Hindus alone, as you say, should be interested iin this article. In any case, it most likely won't be touched regardless of what some say.

UCC is complicated and while very desirable is very difficult to attempt in Modi's first term. Maybe in a possible 2nd term. Will need more support in Parliament than there is currently. No magic wand anywhere.

I support @Indrani. Article 370 must be removed.

 

[Indrani]

Firstly, I don't think your argument holds for all Hindus. Secondly, most people don't give a damn about article 370, knowledge about it is very limited and even arguments on this from those interested is very superficial & lacks understanding.(There was a very fine interview with Karan Singh on Headlines Today with Karan Thapar where a lot of light was shed on the topic) The essence of the aticle remains in name only, most of it being chipped away. That is why there is a chief minister & not a prime minister in J&K. I don't understand why Hindus alone, as you say, should be interested iin this article. In any case, it most likely won't be touched regardless of what some say.

UCC is complicated and while very desirable is very difficult to attempt in Modi's first term. Maybe in a possible 2nd term. Will need more support in Parliament than there is currently. No magic wand anywhere.

I did say "Hindus who wanted repeal...." Did not mention all Hindus. Given how rapidly people are getting educated and responding to Hindutva, I won't be surprised at all if most Hindus and other Dharmic minorities start giving more than a damn about article 370 and get educated about it. If as you say the essence of the article remains in name only, there should be no harm in repealing the shell of the article too. Fast. Finally, I think the Shias, the Buddhists, and the Hindus all want the article repealed.

The kind of numbers BJP won these elections with is not possible again and again given our multiparty democracy and the changing demography in favor of Muslims. If not now, it will not be possible in the future either.

 

[Bang Galore]

I did say "Hindus who wanted repeal...." Did not mention all Hindus. Given how rapidly people are getting educated and responding to Hindutva, I won't be surprised at all if most Hindus and other Dharmic minorities start giving more than a damn about article 370 and get educated about it. If as you say the essence of the article remains in name only, there should be no harm in repealing the shell of the article too. Fast. Finally, I think the Shias, the Buddhists, and the Hindus all want the article repealed.

The kind of numbers BJP won these elections with is not possible again and again given our multiparty democracy and the changing demography in favor of Muslims. If not now, it will not be possible in the future either.

It is not about repealing article 370, it can't be done easily & will destroy Modi's political capital & will most likely doom his chances of getting the economy right. Makes no sense to touch it. As I pointed out, there are numerous such articles pertaining to different states, not specific only to J&K. It won't be received well in J&K & will embroil the government in a legal dispute for a long time so as to not be able to pass any change.( I have read arguments suggesting that the SC will strike down any alterations to art.370 as violating the basic structure doctrine ) A complete waste of time.

 

[Indrani]

It is not about repealing article 370, it can't be done easily & will destroy Modi's political capital & will most likely doom his chances of getting the economy right. Makes no sense to touch it. As I pointed out, there are numerous such articles pertaining to different states, not specific only to J&K. It won't be received well in J&K & will embroil the government in a legal dispute for a long time so as to not be able to pass any change.( I have read arguments suggesting that the SC will strike down any alterations to art.370 as violating the basic structure doctrine ) A complete waste of time.

Modi was clear even in his speech in J&K during his election campaign about the need to repeal article 370. That and UCC, were the promises given to RSS too which must be fulfilled if he needs their backing going forward.

I have also read that notification by the president is enough to scrap article 370. What else will Kashmir Muslims do, but riot for a few days which they anyway do now and then at the drop of a hat. Without the govt mollycoddling the imams and mullahs, I do not expect Muslims to get into riot mode anywhere else in India over Kashmir.

Contrary to what you think, I think that will bolster Modi's image as a man who can take hard decisions (a reason why people elected him). If last few days are anything to go by, then expect huge volumes of business coming into India in the next few years. The confidence he is building amongst the bureaucracy, the police, the courts, the business houses is no way going to be sidetracked by Kashmir.

 

[Bang Galore]

Modi was clear even in his speech in J&K during his election campaign about the need to repeal article 370. That and UCC, were the promises given to RSS too which must be fulfilled if he needs their backing going forward.

I have also read that notification by the president is enough to scrap article 370. What else will Kashmir Muslims do, but riot for a few days which they anyway do now and then at the drop of a hat. Without the govt mollycoddling the imams and mullahs, I do not expect Muslims to get into riot mode anywhere else in India over Kashmir.

Contrary to what you think, I think that will bolster Modi's image as a man who can take hard decisions (a reason why people elected him). If last few days are anything to go by, then expect huge volumes of business coming into India in the next few years. The confidence he is building amongst the bureaucracy, the police, the courts, the business houses is no way going to be sidetracked by Kashmir.

It will have to pass muster in the Supreme court and it most likely won't but it any case will be challenged there. So no easy passage. Notification by the President is unlikely to happen, Pranab Mukherjee is a stickler for the constitution & won't do anything without consulting lawyers. Contrary to what you think, my belief is that Modi does not intend to allow the RSS to decide what will happen & is unlikely to bother with it. In any case, the proof of the pudding will be the eating of it. We will see if anything happens.

 

[Indrani]

It will have to pass muster in the Supreme court and it most likely won't but it any case will be challenged there. So no easy passage. Notification by the President is unlikely to happen, Pranab Mukherjee is a stickler for the constitution & won't do anything without consulting lawyers. Contrary to what you think, my belief is that Modi does not intend to allow the RSS to decide what will happen & is unlikely to bother with it. In any case, the proof of the pudding will be the eating of it. We will see if anything happens.

President Pranab Mukherjee will do as the govt asks if it is legal and a lot of legal opinion in building up in favor of it.

Also, Modi is a man of his word. In his address to BJP members in parliament, he talked about behaving like a disciplined soldier and how he carried out all the duties that were set before him by the party. He also promised to come back with a report card of his govt's achievement at the end of term. That does not sound to me like an opportunist who just uses people and organizations to build him up and then discards them once his objectives are met. Hindu ethics runs deep in that man.

 

[Bang Galore]

President Pranab Mukherjee will do as the govt asks if it is legal and a lot of legal opinion in building up in favor of it.

Also, Modi is a man of his word. In his address to BJP members in parliament, he talked about behaving like a disciplined soldier and how he carried out all the duties that were set before him by the party. He also promised to come back with a report card of his govt's achievement at the end of term. That does not sound to me like an opportunist who just uses people and organizations to build him up and then discards them once his objectives are met. Hindu ethics runs deep in that man.

As i said, we shall see. Proof of the pudding...and all that.