US to use Afghanistan as base of drone attacks in Pakistan - Times of India

[foxbat]

USA and NATO are also good at turning a 'no fly zone' operation into a legal bombing campaign in Libya. So you think that is legal too?

I am not saying its legal. Simply questioning why Pakistan is not raising this breach of sovereign integrity (amounting to undeclared war) in the UN or international courts.

 

[Ignited Mind]

Well it doesn't stop NATO wanting to bomb Syria when its government is only attacking its own people does it?
It only goes to show that this operation on so called 'war on terror' is nothing but a tool to surpress the growth of Asia.
They want to control the resources in the ME and Africa and use Pakistan as a choke point.

Can't refute my point about Pakistan, can you?

When Pakistanis cannot prevent the terrorists on their soil from killing citizens of other countries, India and the west being prominent among them, those other countries are well within their rights to clean the Pakistani mess.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Tell me about it. It was fine until some troll started derailing the thread.

Whatever it is, it is wrong to belittle Pakistan and it is wrong to suggest that Americans should be continuing with the droning on Pakistani soil. They have no rights to do that. Anyways no offense to you buddy, I have nothing against you and lets get back to the topic

There is nothing to belittle Pakistan.

Things have to be based on facts.

If one has observed how the WoT has panned out ever since it visited in Afghanistan, it will be noticed that successive Pakistani govts have kowtowed to the Americans with scant regards for the sentiments of the Pakistani population. That is a fact.

Initially, it was the Afghan Taliban that irked the Americans, and more so, the ire escalated when these chaps took refuge in the Frontiers of Pakistan.

It was at the US' bidding that the Pakistani Army went hell for leather against the people on the Frontier, breaking their age old autonomous way of life and governance and killing many. While the Pakistani Army targeted correctly the unruly Taliban elements, the collateral damage and innocent coming in the crossfire did enrage the locals.

Thereafter, the Pakistani Taliban and other bad hats started targeting Pakistani civilians, mostly when the congregated in their places of worship. The Pakistani Taliban and their cahoots, knowing fully well that they could not contest the Pakistani Army or the Govt, cleverly targeted the non Shias so as to drive the sectarian divide deep and the animosity.

All this lead to total discontent amongst the population that their Govt was totally inept and rudderless, more so, because the Americans merrily went about their attacking Pakistan from bases within Pakistan itself!! Of course, the Army and the Govt made the usual cosmetic growls of 'outrage'!

Imran Khan sponsored and led demonstration has not only shocked and worried the Govt and the Army, but also the US.

The only option was to 'throw' the Americans out of Pakistan with their Drone bases. Cosmetic at best is the umbrage! America also realised that their free run in Pakistan was over. Any further games in the dirty tricks department would lead to Civil Disobedience and that would not be good for man or beast or for the Pakistan Govt and Army or for the US.

So, the bases have moved to save face.

The moot point is - now what?

Whatever it is, now Pakistan will not have the leverage over the Drone strikes and the US can go gung ho.

The US has also ensured that the Northern Supply Corridor is somewhat operation and for all one knows, will wind up the supply route through Pakistan.

Thereafter, one wonders if the US would be concerned as to what happens in Pakistan.

Indication of the changes in the CIA and the State Department should be read to interpolate the speculations on the further US strategy in Afghanistan.

 

[53fd]

Ok whatever you want to think comparing Indian moist with Pakistani terrorist

But no other country can use drone or any thing like this inside India

Don't you have Islamic extremism as well? These are the Islamic extremist groups operating inside the different parts of India:

Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam (MULTA)
United Liberation Front of Barak Valley
Muslim United Liberation Front of Assam (MULFA)
Muslim Security Council of Assam (MSCA)
United Liberation Militia of Assam (ULMA)
Islamic Liberation Army of Assam (ILAA)
Muslim Volunteer Force (MVF)
Muslim Liberation Army (MLA)
Muslim Security Force (MSF)
Islamic Sevak Sangh (ISS)
Islamic United Reformation Protest of India (IURPI)
United Muslim Liberation Front of Assam (UMLFA)
Revolutionary Muslim Commandos (RMC)
Muslim Tiger Force (MTF)
People’s United Liberation Front (PULF)
Adam Sena (AS)
Harkat-ul-Mujahideen
Harkat-ul-Jehad
Lashkar-e-Omar (LeO)
Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM)
Harkat-ul-Ansar (HuA, presently known as Harkat-ul Mujahideen)
Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT)
Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM)
Harkat-ul Mujahideen (HuM, previously known as Harkat-ul-Ansar)
Al Badr
Jamait-ul-Mujahideen (JuM)
Lashkar-e-Jabbar (LeJ)
Harkat-ul-Jehad-i-Islami
Al Barq
Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen
Al Jehad
Jammu & Kashir National Liberation Army
People’s League
Muslim Janbaz Force
Kashmir Jehad Force
Al Jehad Force (combines Muslim Janbaz Force and Kashmir Jehad Force)
Al Umar Mujahideen
Mahaz-e-Azadi
Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba
Jammu & Kashmir Students Liberation Front
Ikhwan-ul-Mujahideen
Islamic Students League
Tehrik-e-Hurriat-e-Kashmir
Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqar Jafaria
Al Mustafa Liberation Fighters
Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami
Muslim Mujahideen
Al Mujahid Force
Tehrik-e-Jehad
Islami Inquilabi Mahaz
Mutahida Jehad Council (MJC)
Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF)
All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC)
Dukhtaran-e-Millat (DeM)
Islamic National Front (INF)
Islamic Revolutionary Front (IRF)
United Islamic Liberation Army (UILA)
United Islamic Revolutionary Army (UIRA)
Deendar Anjuman
Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI)
Asif Reza Commando Force
Taliban

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Is this a show of your forte and patent right on your deficit in understanding beyond the horizon of military knowledge? Does this in anyway illustrate the Tiki tam Tam cheeky stuff?

Anyway, care to tell us what you think about the criminal bombing on Pakistani soil with ze drones?

Humorous.

One requires a good man like you to bring some comic relief to this serious thread.

What is 'ze'?

My horizon does not stop at military knowledge. It encompasses geostrategy, geopolitics and can history and geography be far behind?

The bombings are not criminal. Yet, it is illegal. It violates the territorial integrity and sovereignty of an independent country.

The unfortunate part is that it has been made legitimate because of the tacit understand, or so it appears, of the Pakistani Govt and the Army,

 

[53fd]

Whatever it is, now Pakistan will not have the leverage over the Drone strikes and the US can go gung ho.

The US has also ensured that the Northern Supply Corridor is somewhat operation and for all one knows, will wind up the supply route through Pakistan.

Thereafter, one wonders if the US would be concerned as to what happens in Pakistan.

Indication of the changes in the CIA and the State Department should be read to interpolate the speculations on the further US strategy in Afghanistan.

False. The US is looking to move its supply routes through Central Asian countries, which will affect the drone campaign adversely. The new supply routes will have to go through central Asian countries, which will be time consuming, costly & very complicated. It will definitely impact the drone strikes campaign in a bad way for the US. If the US still has direct routes through Pakistan with its drone base in Afghanistan, Pakistan can close the supply routes whenever they want to (like it's done before on numerous occasions) if they feel the US is getting too aggressive with the drone campaign. So it's a lose-lose situation for the US anyways, particularly if it shifts its supply routes through Central Asian countries. This is the reason why the US is disgusted, but can't help but depend on Pakistan's supply routes.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Don't you have Islamic extremism as well? These are the Islamic extremist groups operating inside the different parts of India:

Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam (MULTA)
United Liberation Front of Barak Valley
Muslim United Liberation Front of Assam (MULFA)
Muslim Security Council of Assam (MSCA)
United Liberation Militia of Assam (ULMA)
Islamic Liberation Army of Assam (ILAA)
Muslim Volunteer Force (MVF)
Muslim Liberation Army (MLA)
Muslim Security Force (MSF)
Islamic Sevak Sangh (ISS)
Islamic United Reformation Protest of India (IURPI)
United Muslim Liberation Front of Assam (UMLFA)
Revolutionary Muslim Commandos (RMC)
Muslim Tiger Force (MTF)
People’s United Liberation Front (PULF)
Adam Sena (AS)
Harkat-ul-Mujahideen
Harkat-ul-Jehad
Lashkar-e-Omar (LeO)
Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM)
Harkat-ul-Ansar (HuA, presently known as Harkat-ul Mujahideen)
Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT)
Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM)
Harkat-ul Mujahideen (HuM, previously known as Harkat-ul-Ansar)
Al Badr
Jamait-ul-Mujahideen (JuM)
Lashkar-e-Jabbar (LeJ)
Harkat-ul-Jehad-i-Islami
Al Barq
Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen
Al Jehad
Jammu & Kashir National Liberation Army
People’s League
Muslim Janbaz Force
Kashmir Jehad Force
Al Jehad Force (combines Muslim Janbaz Force and Kashmir Jehad Force)
Al Umar Mujahideen
Mahaz-e-Azadi
Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba
Jammu & Kashmir Students Liberation Front
Ikhwan-ul-Mujahideen
Islamic Students League
Tehrik-e-Hurriat-e-Kashmir
Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqar Jafaria
Al Mustafa Liberation Fighters
Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami
Muslim Mujahideen
Al Mujahid Force
Tehrik-e-Jehad
Islami Inquilabi Mahaz
Mutahida Jehad Council (MJC)
Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF)
All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC)
Dukhtaran-e-Millat (DeM)
Islamic National Front (INF)
Islamic Revolutionary Front (IRF)
United Islamic Liberation Army (UILA)
United Islamic Revolutionary Army (UIRA)
Deendar Anjuman
Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI)
Asif Reza Commando Force
Taliban

All this must be there.

But none are being droned by a foreign nation!

 

[Ignited Mind]

Don't you have Islamic extremism as well? These are the Islamic extremist groups operating inside the different parts of India:

Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam (MULTA)
United Liberation Front of Barak Valley
Muslim United Liberation Front of Assam (MULFA)
Muslim Security Council of Assam (MSCA)
United Liberation Militia of Assam (ULMA)
Islamic Liberation Army of Assam (ILAA)
Muslim Volunteer Force (MVF)
Muslim Liberation Army (MLA)
Muslim Security Force (MSF)
Islamic Sevak Sangh (ISS)
Islamic United Reformation Protest of India (IURPI)
United Muslim Liberation Front of Assam (UMLFA)
Revolutionary Muslim Commandos (RMC)
Muslim Tiger Force (MTF)
People’s United Liberation Front (PULF)
Adam Sena (AS)
Harkat-ul-Mujahideen
Harkat-ul-Jehad
Lashkar-e-Omar (LeO)
Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM)
Harkat-ul-Ansar (HuA, presently known as Harkat-ul Mujahideen)
Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT)
Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM)
Harkat-ul Mujahideen (HuM, previously known as Harkat-ul-Ansar)
Al Badr
Jamait-ul-Mujahideen (JuM)
Lashkar-e-Jabbar (LeJ)
Harkat-ul-Jehad-i-Islami
Al Barq
Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen
Al Jehad
Jammu & Kashir National Liberation Army
People’s League
Muslim Janbaz Force
Kashmir Jehad Force
Al Jehad Force (combines Muslim Janbaz Force and Kashmir Jehad Force)
Al Umar Mujahideen
Mahaz-e-Azadi
Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba
Jammu & Kashmir Students Liberation Front
Ikhwan-ul-Mujahideen
Islamic Students League
Tehrik-e-Hurriat-e-Kashmir
Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqar Jafaria
Al Mustafa Liberation Fighters
Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami
Muslim Mujahideen
Al Mujahid Force
Tehrik-e-Jehad
Islami Inquilabi Mahaz
Mutahida Jehad Council (MJC)
Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF)
All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC)
Dukhtaran-e-Millat (DeM)
Islamic National Front (INF)
Islamic Revolutionary Front (IRF)
United Islamic Liberation Army (UILA)
United Islamic Revolutionary Army (UIRA)
Deendar Anjuman
Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI)
Asif Reza Commando Force
Taliban

And how many of them ever killed citizens in your country or in any other country in the world?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

False. The US is looking to move its supply routes through Central Asian countries, which will affect the drone campaign adversely. The new supply routes will have to go through central Asian countries, which will be time consuming, costly & very complicated. It will definitely impact the drone strikes campaign in a bad way for the US. If the US still has direct routes through Pakistan with its drone base in Afghanistan, Pakistan can close the supply routes whenever they want to (like it's done before on numerous occasions) if they feel the US is getting too aggressive with the drone campaign. So it's a lose-lose situation for the US anyways, particularly if it shifts its supply routes through Central Asian countries. This is the reason why the US is disgusted, but can't help but depend on Pakistan's supply routes.

False?

Wow!

If the US is no longer dependant on Pakistan, how will it affect the US Drone attacks?

The US is winding up from Pakistan!

When has US been concerned about costs?

The whole WoT is costly and yet they go on and on!

I am sure Pakistan will not attack the US and ISAF or will it?

 

[53fd]

False?

Wow!

If the US is no longer dependant on Pakistan, how will it affect the US Drone attacks?

The US is winding up from Pakistan!

I am sure Pakistan will not attack the US and ISAF or will it?

Read what's written in the post & then comment. You clearly haven't read the post.

 

[Obambam]

Can't refute my point about Pakistan, can you?

When Pakistanis cannot prevent the terrorists on their soil from killing citizens of other countries, India and the west being prominent among them, those other countries are well within their rights to clean the Pakistani mess.

Firstly. Americans didn't have problems until they got themselves involved in the ME to begin with. So they kind of asked for it themselves.
Secondly, if Pakistan is giving your country so much problem, then why doesn't india deal with it? Why flag other countries to do the dirty work?
If drone is enough to sort out the problem, then why commit troops in the ME? why not just bomb them with drones instead? It is not as simple as that.

Pakistani terrorists don't kill only Pakistanis. Nobody outside Pakistan would give a damn if they killed only Pakistanis.

By the way, you did imply that it is fine so long they are not killing civilians or another nation? then does that mean it will be fine that if America and NATO one day turn around and say that Indian government is not doing enough to tackle insurgency and terrorism in India and they should have the rights to bomb those regions affected? Just like what they are trying to do with Syria (afterall, they are only killing its own civilians)?

 

[53fd]

False?

Wow!

If the US is no longer dependant on Pakistan, how will it affect the US Drone attacks?

The US is winding up from Pakistan!

When has US been concerned about costs?

The whole WoT is costly and yet they go on and on!

I am sure Pakistan will not attack the US and ISAF or will it?

It's about cost as well, but more concerned with time. The direct supply route to Pakistan is much much quicker than the supply route coming through the Central Asian countries. Meaning drone strikes will be much less frequent if the supply routes through the Central Asian countries is used. Also meaning that the US/NATO troops in Afghanistan will be in more danger from the Taliban, as they will be getting their supplies late. It will jeopardize the whole War on Terror. Now do you understand?

 

[Obambam]

Humorous.

One requires a good man like you to bring some comic relief to this serious thread.
What is 'ze'?

My horizon does not stop at military knowledge. It encompasses geostrategy, geopolitics and can history and geography be far behind?

The bombings are not criminal. Yet, it is illegal. It violates the territorial integrity and sovereignty of an independent country.

The unfortunate part is that it has been made legitimate because of the tacit understand, or so it appears, of the Pakistani Govt and the Army,

Yet it doesn't stop trolls from trolling and spoiling threads right? It is also nice to know that your knowledge doesn't stop there. It goes as far as to plagiarizing someone's text on Chinese literature?

But yes I do agree with you that it is illegal made legal due to tacit understanding between the U.S. and Pakistani government. This I hope will be rectified in due course when the government switches hand. People speaks louder than words. When majority of the Pakistani people are against it, then you know something is wrong.

 

[Ignited Mind]

Firstly. Americans didn't have problems until they got themselves involved in the ME to begin with. So they kind of asked for it themselves.

Ok so Americans' involvement in the affairs of ME is an invitation for Pakistani terrorists and their accomplices to blow people up everywhere from Newyork to london to Bali to Mumbai?

Secondly, if Pakistan is giving your country so much problem, then why doesn't india deal with it? Why flag other countries to do the dirty work?

India is not USA. India is not even China, let alone USA. India has very limited options against Pakistan and yes, Pakistani nukes do deter us. Though I can't say for how long and with how much impunity will they be able to deter us.

If drone is enough to sort out the problem, then why commit troops in the ME? why not just bomb them with drones instead? It is not as simple as that.

Drones are certainly not enough to solve the problem. The ideal solution would be to take the nukes from Pakistan and tell the Pakistanis in no uncertain terms that this state policy of using terrorism as an extension of foreign policy simply won't work. Period.

By the way, you did imply that it is fine so long they are not killing civilians or another nation? then does that mean it will be fine that if America and NATO one day turn around and say that Indian government is not doing enough to tackle insurgency and terrorism in India and they should have the rights to bomb those regions affected? Just like what they are trying to do with Syria (afterall, they are only killing its own civilians)?

No it's certainly not and I did not imply that. Don't put words into my mouth. You know what I meant.

P.S. Let me remind that not too long ago, China was also concerned about Pakistanis' instigation to Uighurs.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Just to clear the air about what I think about these Drone attacks.

1. I am totally against any action which violates the territorial integrity and sovereignty of an independent country. Therefore, the Drone attacks on Pakistan is just not correct.

2. An attack from the air or with an area weapon, not only kills terrorists, but also the innocents and does immense collateral damage. Such actions only breeds more terrorists and is counterproductiive.

3. In this case, one is not too sure what is the ground rules. The Pakistan govt and the Army are merely making cosmetic noises. Now, it the Pakistan Govt and Army are in concert, what can anyone else comment about the legitimacy of the action or not?