US to use Afghanistan as base of drone attacks in Pakistan - Times of India

[Developereo]

He is not a gorilla, Wikileaks say that the US finds him Alphamale!

Apart from the earlier link indicating US Russia cooperation on the Northern Corridor, here is something from Russia.

Sigh.

You miss the point.
Yet again.

The issue has never been that Russia won't help NATO. It's what Putin will demand in return. That's why I mentioned the fable.

 

[deckingraj]

Sigh.

You miss the point.
Yet again.

The issue has never been that Russia won't help NATO. It's what Putin will demand in return. That's why I mentioned the fable.

Buddy if we go by reports then there is already 50% of the supplies coming from that route...This is a sizable portion so whatever you are suggesting, don't you think that have already been settled????....b/w it is a matter prioritizing things...As of now winning the so-called WOT is the highest priority so even if we assume they will have to make some further concessions i don't see it to be a big issue....

But if we look at the other way around - One of the leverage that GOP have is this supply route...The lesser the dependency NATO will have on this route lesser would be that leverage for GOP....So not sure if this is going to be that good news for Pak.....

 

[Developereo]

Buddy if we go by reports then there is already 50% of the supplies coming from that route...This is a sizable portion so whatever you are suggesting, don't you think that have already been settled????....b/w it is a matter prioritizing things...As of now winning the so-called WOT is the highest priority so even if we assume they will have to make some further concessions i don't see it to be a big issue....

But if we look at the other way around - One of the leverage that GOP have is this supply route...The lesser the dependency NATO will have on this route lesser would be that leverage for GOP....So not sure if this is going to be that good news for Pak.....

Yes, I am aware of that. I mentioned it in another thread.

It's a balancing act between the various supply routes. NATO is using the alternatives to tell each party: we are not wholly dependent on you and we have other options.

That's why NATO needs Pakistan. If they close this route and depend 100% on Russia, it will give unacceptable leverage to Putin and, like I said, whatever Putin wants is going to be worth a whole lot more than mere dollars.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Sigh.

You miss the point.
Yet again.

The issue has never been that Russia won't help NATO. It's what Putin will demand in return. That's why I mentioned the fable.

He is demanding and the US has the wherewithal to fulfil it!

Read the IISC report carefully.

The US is not totally dependent on Russia!

Even, the best friend of Pakistan i.e. China is chipping in!!

Further, it is to Russian interest to smash Islamic fundamentalism. They are also on the wrong end of the stick!

 

[Developereo]

He is demanding and the US has the wherewithal to fulfil it!

Read the IISC report carefully.

The US is not totally dependent on Russia!

Even, the best friend of Pakistan i.e. China is chipping in!!

Further, it is to Russian interest to smash Islamic fundamentalism. They are also on the wrong end of the stick!

China is not a big player in the CARs. In terms of influence, it's Russia's backyard, even though it borders China also.

And Russia wins either way: if NATO defeats Al Qaeda, then Russia is happy; but if NATO is humiliated, Russia also wins.

Islamic fundamentalism is trivial stuff compared to the big issues between the major powers.

 

[deckingraj]

Yes, I am aware of that. I mentioned it in another thread.

It's a balancing act between the various supply routes. NATO is using the alternatives to tell each party: we are not wholly dependent on you and we have other options.

That's why NATO needs Pakistan. If they close this route and depend 100% on Russia, it will give unacceptable leverage to Putin and, like I said, whatever Putin wants is going to be worth a whole lot more than mere dollars.

What i am saying is that even 50% is a huge dependence...Pak is a so-called ally whom can be arm-twisted far easily than the mighty russians....In short all those concessions or whatever we are talking about have already been reached....If there are few more concessions than they can be made in lieu of bigger objective i.e. winning WOT.....b.w i do agree with "Tiki Tam Tam" that winning WOT by NATO is in Russia's interest....Their a huge problem of Narcotics from AF and russians would like to see a stable AF than getting a feel good factor seeing a defeated NATO which will bring no good to them....

 

[deckingraj]

China is not a big player in the CARs. In terms of influence, it's Russia's backyard, even though it borders China also.

And Russia wins either way: if NATO defeats Al Qaeda, then Russia is happy; but if NATO is humiliated, Russia also wins.

Islamic fundamentalism is trivial stuff compared to the big issues between the major powers.

You are right when you say China is not a big player, however in today's world you don't want to behave like an arrogant kid.....Russians need WOT to be successful as well...Rest everything is just diplomatic maneuver's and are achievable as far as Putin's hypothetical out of the world demand's are concerned

 

[KS]

That explains it all. Thankyou for your clarification. So if one commits a crime, the rest must pay? With that kind of mentality, I don't blame Pakistanis from hating you.

Read my post again, S-L-O-W-L-Y.

I said, IF I hate the Pakistanis I would not support the Drone attacks before the victims of the drones are the killers of innocent Afghans and Pakistanis , in market,mall, roadsides etc - which means I dont hate the common Pakistani if I support the drone attacks on the terrorists in NW.

Capiche ?

Are there more Pakistani against or in favour or it? You tell me.
Americans will just agree with anything its government says. They don't get called sheeples for no reason. And having control over most of the media outlets help. Reminds me so much of the Iraq has WMD and Al-Qaeda was involved with 911 issues so much. Till now, nothing was proven. Just allegations followed by more allegations?

The ordinary Pakistani does not matter. They are just emotional and thats to it. They dont run a nation. It is the establishment that runs it and they know how to do business. Just like it is the CPC that runs China and not every single action is done after asking the 1.4 billion Chinese.

And please save me the Jews controlling the media, Freemasonry at work, New World Order attacking Iraq etc. Not interested in conspiracy theories. Might as well argue if Aliens landed in Roswell.

 

[Obambam]

Read my post again, S-L-O-W-L-Y.

I said, IF I hate the Pakistanis I would not support the Drone attacks before the victims of the drones are the killers of innocent Afghans and Pakistanis , in market,mall, roadsides etc - which means I dont hate the common Pakistani if I support the drone attacks on the terrorists in NW.

Capiche ?

Perhaps you should learn where to use full stop and commas, seperating the sentence to make it more readable?

The ordinary Pakistani does not matter. They are just emotional and thats to it. They dont run a nation. It is the establishment that runs it and they know how to do business. Just like it is the CPC that runs China and not every single action is done after asking the 1.4 billion Chinese.

End of the day, it matters very much. Yes despite China being a one party system, they still have to care for what the majority thinks. Else they wouldn't remain in power for long. This applies to all political systems regardless of ideologies. Makes sense?

And please save me the Jews controlling the media, Freemasonry at work, New World Order attacking Iraq etc. Not interested in conspiracy theories. Might as well argue if Aliens landed in Roswell.

You've already backed out from answering my questions, do I need to take it any further with you? Your arguments are solely based on 'allegations' follwed by more 'allegations'. Not surprising that you cannot bring about facts and the best you can do is to rubbish counter arguments as conspiracy theories. You clearly need lessons on critical thinking.

 

[Obambam]

Uninformed rants?

How cute.

None of what you chaps have said has any relevance to the geopolitical or geostrategic reality. I have appended links from the that standpoint too!! You are merely on a jingositic and emotional roller coaster ride.

Just because you have no idea of geopolitics and geostrategy or anything about CAR because you have not discussed anything knowledgeably of these subjects, it does not mean you should club me in your blissful vacuum.

That you do not have the foggiest of international geopolitics and geostrategy is so evident by your sentence 'NATO has been in Afghanistan for almost ten years. Do you really think they haven't explored the alternatives? . The very fact that there was a pliant Pakistan to do the US bid ding always and every time and even to the detriment of its own people, was indicative that Pakistan was a better alternative. Another read of the IISC report by you carefully will surely help dawn on you some desperately needed knowledge.

Annoyed Chinese posters?

They maybe God to you and you take delight in kowtowing, but do forgive me, I am not too impressed with their parrot like propaganda from the song sheet handed over by their Govt. To be frank, who cares for them or their stereotyped Govt bequeathed views.


Money, it appears, is the least of US' concern.

They have spent much in Pakistan too!

Says the Indian parrot who takes delight in 'kowtowing' to someone who made the effort to write about the history of Chinese litterature? and then flattering the author by shamelessly plagiarizing his work? then self claim to be more Chinese for knowing more about Chinese history?
Not only that, your propaganda has to be the worst of its kind. Not only are you unconvincing, you have to repeat the same rhetoric over and over like a cheap broken radio.

 

[Mutee]

It will be very interesting to see how our beloved army reacts to this situation or even if they would react at all cuz they are just taking it lying down for the last 7 years or so

 

[Vassnti]

It means Pakistan can dominate in Afghanistan & the region again if the US leaves Pakistan,

Just how will Pakistan dominate Afghanistan when you dont have the resources to control Waziristan? Four years after Mir Ali the army is back there again facing the same problems as before. That probably sounds harsh but really Pakistan needs to worry about controling Pakistan before working on dreams of controling Afghanistan.

Back on topic though i wonder if closing Shamsi is good politically but bad militarily, while the drones and their base were in Pakistan you had influence over the boxes, if they opperate from Afghanistan there has to be less influence in the choice of targets.

 

[Developereo]

What i am saying is that even 50% is a huge dependence...Pak is a so-called ally whom can be arm-twisted far easily than the mighty russians....In short all those concessions or whatever we are talking about have already been reached....If there are few more concessions than they can be made in lieu of bigger objective i.e. winning WOT.....

Yes, Pakistan is weak, corrupt, for sale and easily arm-twisted: we all agree on that. That is precisely why NATO prefers dealing with Pakistan than with Russia. Don't you think they scoped out the northern route ten years ago? No military commander is going to invade without doing their homework first. The reason they stayed with Pakistan is precisely those reasons above.

What they are doing with the northern route now, like I said, is to put pressure on Pakistan to say "we have alternatives so don't push your luck". Or bad luck as it is. However, there is a huge gap between Pakistan's price and Putin's price -- we have a long way to go before we come anywhere near Putin's level of demands. And, no, those demands by Putin haven't been met yet. They haven't even been articulated yet because he doesn't have NATO by the balls as long as Pakistan remains an alternative.

To get some idea of Putin's power, he got the US summarily thrown out of Uzbekistan. Don't you think the US tried to bribe the Uzbeks? Does the US lack money? But there is no way they can compete with Putin in his own back yard. Paying 5 billion to Pakistan is pocket change compared to the pound of flesh that Putin will extract.

b.w i do agree with "Tiki Tam Tam" that winning WOT by NATO is in Russia's interest....Their a huge problem of Narcotics from AF and russians would like to see a stable AF than getting a feel good factor seeing a defeated NATO which will bring no good to them....

You are both wrong. The hype on terrorism is a golden goose for Western governments because it lets them enact draconian laws on their own people and let's them justify various policies. As for narcotics, again you are wrong. The Islamists are fiercely anti-drugs -- they may use the trade now to finance their operations, but opium production fell sharply during the Taliban years. It is the Western favorite Karzai whose brother-in-law is the biggest drug lord in Afghanistan, and under whom the drug production rose sharply.