US to use Afghanistan as base of drone attacks in Pakistan - Times of India

[Ignited Mind]

Even if US hang those who did those killing you'll still be saying "like it means anything" because your intention is not to have good discussion but just to troll and degrade anything even remotely related to Pakistan. So thats why It means nothing to you. our demand was apology and they did apologies... So you failed again

lol so I was right, none of your demands has been met so far. Well, none seems to be possible of being met in the future either.

 

[mjnaushad]

lol so I was right, none of your demands has been met so far. Well, none seems to be possible of being met in the future either.

You failed again.

 

[Ignited Mind]

You failed again.

Feel free to whine.

 

[Obambam]

And yeah if I have hated Pak I would love the terrorists in NW to remain free from Drones -you know why the Drones dont kill civilians in Karachi or Lahore or Peshawar through suicide bombings.

That explains it all. Thankyou for your clarification. So if one commits a crime, the rest must pay? With that kind of mentality, I don't blame Pakistanis from hating you.

And do you think you are the only genius out here when you suggest the drones are not good while the whole lot of the Americans and Pakistani establishment who go by it are fools ?

Are there more Pakistani against or in favour or it? You tell me.
Americans will just agree with anything its government says. They don't get called sheeples for no reason. And having control over most of the media outlets help. Reminds me so much of the Iraq has WMD and Al-Qaeda was involved with 911 issues so much. Till now, nothing was proven. Just allegations followed by more allegations?

 

[mjnaushad]

*facepalm*

And again.

 

[Ignited Mind]

*facepalm*

And again.

Anything else?

 

[Ammyy]

No they don't have to pay for that. It is also wrong. Pakistan doesn't have to fight the American war. And the Americans doesn't have the right to meddle with Pakistan's internal affairs.

they used teliban for interfering in others internal affairs so its their time

 

[Developereo]

they used teliban for interfering in others internal affairs so its their time

The drone attacks is a matter between the US and Pakistan. Your wishes and opinions are irrelevant.

If you dare, launch Indian drones against Pakistan. Otherwise, keep quiet and mind your own business.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Ironic that you should accuse anyone of being a jingoist. Your uninformed rants have already annoyed the Chinese members, and now you are making a fool of yourself by demonstrating gross ignorance of the geopolitics of the CAR region.

Just because the Indians are having wet dreams about this scenario does not change the fundamental facts of the region.



NATO has been in Afghanistan for almost ten years. Do you really think they haven't explored the alternatives? What kind of army lays out its supply route through 'enemy' territory where the Afghan Taliban are supposedly running rampant (Balochistan and NWFP)?

Carry on with your silly 'analyses' pretending to be a geopolitical expert. It provides good entertainment for the rest of us.

Uninformed rants?

How cute.

None of what you chaps have said has any relevance to the geopolitical or geostrategic reality. I have appended links from the that standpoint too!! You are merely on a jingositic and emotional roller coaster ride.

Just because you have no idea of geopolitics and geostrategy or anything about CAR because you have not discussed anything knowledgeably of these subjects, it does not mean you should club me in your blissful vacuum.

That you do not have the foggiest of international geopolitics and geostrategy is so evident by your sentence 'NATO has been in Afghanistan for almost ten years. Do you really think they haven't explored the alternatives? . The very fact that there was a pliant Pakistan to do the US bid ding always and every time and even to the detriment of its own people, was indicative that Pakistan was a better alternative. Another read of the IISC report by you carefully will surely help dawn on you some desperately needed knowledge.

Annoyed Chinese posters?

They maybe God to you and you take delight in kowtowing, but do forgive me, I am not too impressed with their parrot like propaganda from the song sheet handed over by their Govt. To be frank, who cares for them or their stereotyped Govt bequeathed views.

Nobody's disputing that the norther route is feasible and even operational. By some estimates, over 50% of supplies are coming that way.

The point is that the payment for the northern option won't be measured in dollars; Russia will extract heavy concessions from the US in exchange for this route. Those concessions are priceless compared to the paltry billions that the US pays to Pakistan. (5 billion is chump change to the US.)

Money, it appears, is the least of US' concern.

They have spent much in Pakistan too!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

He said that the world will give a damn as long as only Pakistanis are killed by Pakitani terrorists as it will be an internal problem for Pakistan to sort out, just like we are sorting out the terrorists from Kashmir and Central India.

But when people like Faisal Shehzad, or the London tube bombers who were Pakistanis or of Pakistani origin are caught and Talibunnies operating out of safe haven in Pakistan's tribal areas are there which poses a threat to the rest of the world, drones will operate.

You must be too simplistic to not understand what he said.

Leave him be.

English is not his cup of tea.

Therefore, he tends to display what may appear as idiosyncrasies but in actually it is the handicap in language that apparently what limits understanding.

For instance check his post immediately after yours. He writes about Hindu terrorism. Now, how in the name of the Manchu Emperor, is Hindu terrorism connected to the US shifting base to Afghanistan or that terrorists being killed, even by the Pakistanis, are bred in the badlands of Pakistan and who are capable of terrorising the world!!

If one reads the IISC report one will find that China is opening up routes to the Northern Corridor to Afghanistan and China is a bosom friend of Pakistan. Why so? It is because the world including China and even Pakistan Govt and Army has become wary of the terrorists calling the shots and all are wanting it to be controlled if not cease.

 

[Developereo]

Uninformed rants?

How cute.

None of what you chaps have said has any relevance to the geopolitical or geostrategic reality. I have appended links from the that standpoint too!! You are merely on a jingositic and emotional roller coaster ride.

Just because you have no idea of geopolitics and geostrategy or anything about CAR because you have not discussed anything knowledgeably of these subjects, it does not mean you should club me in your blissful vacuum.

That you do not have the foggiest of international geopolitics and geostrategy is so evident by your sentence 'NATO has been in Afghanistan for almost ten years. Do you really think they haven't explored the alternatives? . The very fact that there was a pliant Pakistan to do the US bid ding always and every time and even to the detriment of its own people, was indicative that Pakistan was a better alternative. Another read of the IISC report by you carefully will surely help dawn on you some desperately needed knowledge.

There's a saying: a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
The articles you reference focus on the minutiae, but I am talking about 800 pound gorilla in the room, and his name in Vladimir Putin.
Until you understand how Russia controls the CARS, you will not understand why NATO considers that route a desperate last resort.

As far as China and Russia 'helping' NATO, try reading the old fable about the wolf, the horse and the man.

Annoyed Chinese posters?

They maybe God to you and you take delight in kowtowing, but do forgive me, I am not too impressed with their parrot like propaganda from the song sheet handed over by their Govt. To be frank, who cares for them or their stereotyped Govt bequeathed views.

I only mentioned the Chinese because they have skinned you alive and left you bleeding.

Money, it appears, is the least of US' concern.

Well, duh!

That was my whole point! Try reading it again. Slowly this time.

 

[Imran Khan]

drones the biggest slap on face of pak forces

 

[deckingraj]

I do see members loosing their calm a bit here...So i will urge them to take a break....As far as the drone attacks are concerned did anyone bother to check at stats??? Their is a quantum jump in percentage to what it was way back in 2004...So if i just consider the stats there is no way the region is going to see end to Drone attacks... and no matter how bad it sound there is nothing Pakistan can do at the moment about it....Few reasons

- There are lot of doubts if they actually wanna do something about it...
- There is no doubt that NATO wants to increase the number of drone attacks, forget about halting it, especially when it is made ample clear to them that GOP don't think it is time to escalate ground operations in the regions NATO is interested...
- Even if Pakistan want to do something about it(taking down a drone) they will refrain because it can lead to escalation of conflict which is not going to be in best interests for both parties involved (Pak and NATO)....

So if you see the best thing from GOP pov is to not do anything about Drones....Let keep condemning it out in the open to keep public confused......and so far they are successful in it...


*********************************************************

On a side topic let's have one thing very clear...Both parties(NATO and GOP) need each other for various reasons...To the best of my knowledge no one would like to do anything at the expense of other....That is the precise reason you are witnessing escalation of drone attacks....

• All those members who think NATO can simply pack up their bags and say to hell with AF are grossly mistaken....You don't, or can i say, can't do that to a 10 year long conflict which has been sold as a existential threat to people back home....

• In the similar token all those who think that GOP can rise one fine day and say "to hell with NATO" are ignoring the geo-political suicide that it will lead to...

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

There's a saying: a little knowledge is a dangerous thing

.


And you are the living example.

The articles you reference focus on the minutiae, but I am talking about 800 pound gorilla in the room, and his name in Vladimir Putin.
Until you understand how Russia controls the CARS, you will not understand why NATO considers that route a desperate last resort.

Again, it show how little you know and how you use American ways to avoid the issue - gorilla in the room!!

He is not a gorilla, Wikileaks say that the US finds him Alphamale!

Apart from the earlier link indicating US Russia cooperation on the Northern Corridor, here is something from Russia.

ussian ambassador briefs on the “Northern Corridor” at the Russia-NATO Council meeting
Afghanistan.ru - 26.6.2008
Russian ambassador to Afghanistan Zamir Kabulov attended a Russia-NATO Council meeting on the 25th of June. Establishing cooperation in opening new corridors for the transportation of cargo to the NATO contingent was discussed privately with the involvement of the Russian ambassador.

In fact, Russia agreed to allow using its territory for the transportation of non-military cargo to Afghanistan at the Russia-NATO Council meeting in Bucharest in April.

According to observers, “northern corridor” is considered as the most advantages for the NATO contingent not only economically. Huge experience gained in deploying live forces and military hardware during the Soviet military presence in Afghanistan makes the Russian proposal tempting, say observers. Moreover, according to Afghan experts, north corridor reduces dependence of Kabul and NATO on Pakistan, through which a large part of military, food and fuel supplies are now being delivered to Afghanistan.
Afghanistan.Ru | Russian ambassador briefs on the “Northern Corridor” at the Russia-NATO Council meeting


It is becoming tiresome to educated the uneducated!

As far as China and Russia 'helping' NATO, try reading the old fable about the wolf, the horse and the man.

Yes, let the fables be your salvation while the reality courses a different path.

spin some more fables.

I only mentioned the Chinese because they have skinned you alive and left you bleeding.

Well for a man who believes in fables, jinns and bedtime stories, such a thought is apt.

If you had any analytical power (which your posts on Afghanistan indicates is absent), you would realise who was whimpering and left in the cold. The Han culturism and all Chinese being Hans and their theory of chromosomes were demolished with links from scholarly tomes to including from China itself.

Do read that thread and if you find something amiss, do come back.

But reading was never your favourite hobby. Blind adulation to add to the numbers irrespective of the facts or truth is.

Well, duh!

That was my whole point! Try reading it again. Slowly this time.

My whole advice to you is start with the alphabets and then come back!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Like it was apparently dominating Afghanistan before 9/11, & after 9/11 till 2006 before the CIA covert operations inside Pakistan started.

Even before 9/11?

The WoT was on then?

Pakistan was under CIA interference and US dictates even before 9/11?

It will take more than 1.5x the time to get supplies through the new route as compared to the direct route through Pakistan. The more feasible option for the US would have been to send it through Iran, but that's not going to happen; which is why it has to take this crazy long route that will deliver supplies 1.5x times later than the current arrangement with Pakistan. This will of course result in limited drone attacks, & the war against the terrorists in Afghanistan would be greatly compromised when the troops in Afghanistan don't get their supplies on time.

I thought you said that NATO was in Afghanistan for over 10 years!

Their supplies materialised like Instant Coffee?

BTW, which is the shortest route to Afghanistan? Pakistan?

Take another guess.

It is Chahbahar port of Iran, along the highway and into Afghanistan.

That you do not understand geostrategy, geopolitics or the conduct of an operations is so evident.

Since Iran was out, the next best was Pakistan. It has a pliant Govt and an Army which would do as per the US bidding, including allowing the US to violate Pakistan's territorial integrity and sovereignty. It was win win. And still was, till Imran Khan whipped up the righteous indignation against the US freewheeling ways inside Pakistan including Drones at will.

Therefore, Pakistan is now a hot potato.

So, onto the next best, which they were building up as it is and through which a sizeable amount of supplies was being sent.

You haven't even read the report, you just copied & pasted it. Well, I have. Let me give you a few summarized points here:

Shipping vessel speed assumed: 30 knots

Proposed option from the Central Asian countries:
a) Ship supplies to Georgia (Time: 8 days from NY to Georgia)
b) Onland travel from Georgia to Azerbaijan (Time: 4 days . Distance: 4905 km)
c) Ferry from Azerbaijan to Kazakhstan (Time: 1.5 days)
d) Onland travel from Kazakhstan to Uzbekistan (Time: 2.5 days. Distance: 3042 km)
e) Onland travel from Uzbekistan to Afghanistan (Time: 2 days. Distance: 915 km - bad roads)

Total time: 18 days (the least possible time, without including toll time, traffic, broken roads/repairs, political instability, any unforeseen events etc)


Current option with Pakistan:
a) Ship supplies to Karachi, Pakistan (Time: 11 days from NY to Karachi)
b) Onland travel from Karachi to FATA - FATA to Kabul (Time: 1 day)

Total time: 12 days

The Pakistan route is 1.5x quicker than the proposed option.


There are other risks involved as well.



By the time the supplies even reach the troops in Afghanistan, the terrorists will eat them alive.


Political Challenges & challenges from terrorists:

It is my job to read reports.

I copy and paste such reports to educate the uneducated and do some service to mankind.

That you do not understand even how ships move is so evident.

30 knots is no mean speed. In fact, quite respectable.

It takes 10 days (you say 12) to do the Pakistan route. Add 8 for the Northern Corridor and you are missing out that the railway to Afghanistan is being constructed, but let it pass. In a insurgency, do you think there is much difference between 12 and 18 days? I give it one step better to the Pakistan route. I say 10 days!!

Again it proves you have no idea of how a campaign is run. It appears that you assume that supplies are ferried on a day to day basis! I will use your favourite terms = False!! There is unit reserves, theatre reserves and strategic reserves. If one had to fight a campaign on a daily supply basis, then such campaigners should merely pack their bags and go!!

It is most humorous to learn that the terrorists in Afghanistan will eat the ISAF alive because of the 8 days lapse in transit time!! Just proves how much you know of logistics and logistic planning. Please note, it is not going to bazaar daily as one would do for domestic needs!! it does get tiresome to even engage with people who ooze with pretence of knowledge when they have a not even a sausage of an idea what they are debating about!!

What a juvenile remark = there are risks involved in the Northern corridor. War is itself a tryst with risks!! Pakistan route was most risky and temperamental on top of that! So? What's new?

Political challenges? Read the link I gave in the post to devenpro or something.