US responsible for the Murder of Pakistani Troops - Pak Rejects NATO Probe

[Lankan Ranger]

US compensation offer rejected: Pakistan Army did not fire first

Pakistan Army on Friday rejected key findings from a US investigation into American air strikes last month that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers and said the report was unlikely to repair the severely damaged relationship between the two countries.

The findings of the investigation were released on Thursday concluded that mistakes on both sides led to the deadly attack along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Pakistan has maintained its troops did nothing wrong and the attack was a deliberate act of aggression.

Pakistan refused to participate in the investigation, claiming past US probes into border incidents were biased.

It also retaliated against the attack by closing its border to Nato supplies meant for troops in Afghanistan and kicking the US out of a base used to operare American drones.

Pakistan`s response, while not surprising, is likely to worry Washington since the country`s support is critical for the Afghan war.

Pakistan not only provides a key route for supplies, but is important for peace negotiations with the Taliban.

Pakistan Army spokesman Maj-Gen Athar Abbas rejected the report`s claim that Pakistani troops fired at American and Afghan forces first, triggering the incident.

He said in an interview on Friday that Pakistani forces retaliated only after coalition helicopters `started engagement`.

He also denied that Pakistan failed to notify Nato of the location of the two border posts that were attacked.

Gen Abbas expressed surprise and frustration that the US refused to apologise for the deaths of the soldiers, something many Pakistanis have demanded. He rejected an American offer to pay compensation to the victims` families, saying the army has its own welfare system.

`Nobody is interested in compensation,` he said. `It is not in our military culture to take money for a fallen soldier. It is abhorred. We will take care of our own,` he said.

Gen Abbas repeated the army`s claim that Pakistan had given Nato maps that clearly marked the location of the two outposts Volcano and Boulder located on a mountain ridge in the Mohmand tribal area.

He also said the Taliban do not use such structures.`Taliban do not make posts,` said Abbas. `No insurgents make posts. It is a running war against insurgents.

Abbas accused Nato and Afghan forces of `gross violations` of standard operating procedures, including not informing Pakistan that their forces would be conducting an overnight operation along the border on November 25-26 when the attack occurred.

He also accused US and Nato forces of ignoring established rules of engagement aimed at avoiding friendly fire incidents. These rules demand troops under attack contact Pakistan to determine whether fire is coming from one of the country`s outposts.

He said Pakistan informed Nato forces in Afghanistan that the Volcano post had been hit, ‘but they kept firing and hit Boulder as well as the reinforcements’ Gen Abbas gave no indication of when Pakistan might lift its embargo on Nato supplies to troops in Afghanistan.

However, he indicated the government would levy additional fees when the route is eventually reopened.

`You can`t use our port, destroy our roads and get away without paying for it, he said.

US compensation offer rejected: Pak Army did not fire first: ISPR | Newspaper | DAWN.COM

 

[Donatello]

Freaking Yankees.

 

[MastanKhan]

I merely tell it like it is; thank you for agreeing with me.

Sir,

I don't mean to be rude----but what analyst who does that kind of thing---. You cannot bring in the righteous approach of " I see it as it is " and have no stake of your own in the issue----. By the way---are you starting to believe in yourself in what you say!

I remember my father---a doctor---used to tell his junior colleague---' You are a very good doctor, but you don't show any compassion towards your patients---so, for that reason, you are not a good doctor '.

This situation is not all black or white---there is a lots of red in it---the red---the blood of pakistani soldiers who got slaughtered---there is compassion and there is emotion and then there are lies---and you have to pick your side---which for now---you are totally avoiding---.

Develepereo,

The western media is doing what it is suppoesd to do---pakistanis have to come to the western media and take a stand---you can't leave it upto traitors like Haqqani to do your biddings----.

For that reason I had asked Asim Aquil to terminate Fatman17 after the execution of osama, from his position for doing nothing, make a coupe remove him appoint someone capable to that position from where he could represent pakistan's interest in a different manner in the news and media forum----but Asim---even though he has the banner to remove the incompetent govt in pakistan---could not remove the incompetent leader of this forum----how do you people expect to bring change and have better presentation of your ideas and thoughts in front of the world when you can't even correct your small mistakes over here where you have the power to do so.

How do you people expect better results when the leaders of this board---the Think Tank is more interested in looking after their hurt egos and personal dislikes and pick again a totally incompetent man who shamelessly takes this job for doing what----.

Develepereo---this board---this is what you are as a nation---this board is a micro of pakistan----you have leaders here who don't want to lead---who can't lead---they don't have the time to lead---they don't have the interest to lead---if you can't use the oppurtunity on this board---how can you use it on the national level.

So---who is going to look for your interests in the western media---the walls---the pillars---or the roof tops.

 

[Awesome]

So we're going switch our loyalties on money? Ok 1 Trillion dollars and you may use the supply route.

Yes/No?

 

[Developereo]

Develepereo,

The western media is doing what it is suppoesd to do---pakistanis have to come to the western media and take a stand---you can't leave it upto traitors like Haqqani to do your biddings----.
[...]
So---who is going to look for your interests in the western media---the walls---the pillars---or the roof tops.

Since you live in the US, you know that it's not as simple as walking into a TV studio and saying "hear me out". The reason Pakistan doesn't get a fair shake in the Western media is not due to oversight or lack of media reps on our side; it is a deliberate media blackout by these media outlets. When it comes to "national security", there is absolute uniformity in the Western media because, after 9/11, any deviation from the script is viewed as unpatriotic appeasement of "terrorists". The thought control and peer pressure is unprecedented. Even well respected programs like PBS Newshour and Charlie Rose are complicit. When's the last time you saw an actual Taliban present their side of the story?

When the Western media do interview Pakistanis, it's always the fifth columnists like Pervez Hoodbhoy or Ahmad Rashid who trot out the expected lines about "liberal" Pakistanis fighting an uphill battle against the evil PA and ISI. Even if the PA issued official statements, they would be ridiculed or spun around, the way they do it with Iranian statements.

It is a complete fiction that Western media is balanced and objective. That is only true for domestic matters because there is enough representation on both sides to keep the media honest. On matters of foreign policy -- especially "sensitive" matters -- the Western media is a fully compliant instrument of foreign policy.

I think we all agree that Pakistan needs to get its side of the story out, but the Western media will never air the Pakistani viewpoint. We need to empower our own media. There is no short term fix; it's a long term campaign -- like fixing our economy and developing self-reliance.

 

[Awesome]

International geopolitics can never stop. The detailed response by Paksitan will now be very important indeed, for present and future implications for both countries.

Facts were disputed. One thing I can speculate is the "Who fired first" question. This will be very hard to prove.

I'm surprised we never heard of an AC-130 being reported as the air attack mechanism the Americans used - Military personnel who survived the attack should have been able to tell the difference. It is possible that this will be disputed as well.

The report seems to suggest the AC-130 then stopped and then more fire came towards the ground troops from the posts and then the two Apaches engaged.

The Pakistani version seemed to suggest that once the air attack started they were too busy engaging the choppers, its also highly impractical that by then the AAA gun that Pakistanis say they had did not fire at the aircraft and instead they were firing at the ground troops - were the ground troops also firing back/advancing?

Nato report seems illogical and paints half a picture using things that can't be proved (like who fired first) or disproved. It seems carefully scripted to fit the official story and to prevent the President from apologizing.

 

[lem34]

Nato report seems illogical and paints half a picture using things that can't be proved (like who fired first) or disproved. It seems carefully scripted to fit the official story and to prevent the President from apologizing.

yep election demands on obama seem more important than appologising, but I think they can shove their applolgies this is a good time to reassess our entire relationship. why should we allow supply routes to an invading force in afghanistan that puts up a puppet regime that allows india to put up several consulates-tourism??? we should simply say no. why should we help to create a second front for ourselves.

 

[Awesome]

yep election demands on obama seem more important than appologising, but I think they can shove their applolgies this is a good time to reassess our entire relationship. why should we allow supply routes to an invading force in afghanistan that puts up a puppet regime that allows india to put up several consulates-tourism??? we should simply say no. why should we help to create a second front for ourselves.

Thats a very good suggestion, I think our relationship with Afghanistan should be re-evaluated as well. Why maintain supply route to Afghanistan, which is led by an undemocratic system? With leaders implanted that hate us...

Let there be a free and fair election in Afghanistan before their government can be allowed to function.

 

[fd24]

Facts were disputed. One thing I can speculate is the "Who fired first" question. This will be very hard to prove.

I'm surprised we never heard of an AC-130 being reported as the air attack mechanism the Americans used - Military personnel who survived the attack should have been able to tell the difference. It is possible that this will be disputed as well.

The report seems to suggest the AC-130 then stopped and then more fire came towards the ground troops from the posts and then the two Apaches engaged.

The Pakistani version seemed to suggest that once the air attack started they were too busy engaging the choppers, its also highly impractical that by then the AAA gun that Pakistanis say they had did not fire at the aircraft and instead they were firing at the ground troops - were the ground troops also firing back/advancing?

Nato report seems illogical and paints half a picture using things that can't be proved (like who fired first) or disproved. It seems carefully scripted to fit the official story and to prevent the President from apologizing.

I almost sense "selective alziemers". They make a story up and 2 weeks later change it thinking that nobody read the first story or they have forgotten what already has been released.
Its quite simple - in my eyes the criminal, judge and jury are all the same person and the USA feel and believe they have a right to sit in all the seats and can play "god". They have miscalculated big style on this occassion.

 

[VCheng]

So we're going switch our loyalties on money? Ok 1 Trillion dollars and you may use the supply route.

Yes/No?

As long as loyalty is up for sale, the price can always be haggled. Should loyalty be up for sale at all is the better question.

 

[fatman17]

CENTCOM briefing has been postponed not cancelled - new date being discussed - reason given; memogate!

 

[Major Sam]

whats next now? what will be the detail response of Pakistan on this issue?

 

[VCheng]

whats next now? what will be the detail response of Pakistan on this issue?

I guess we will just have to wait and see. 12-26 will be 30 days after the incident. I guess I will have to admit my estimate of supply routes reopening was wrong in a few days, but I can say for now that Pakistani resolve this time appears to be strong indeed.

 

[VCheng]

CENTCOM briefing has been postponed not cancelled - new date being discussed - reason given; memogate!

Now that is a smart move.

 

[MastanKhan]

Since you live in the US, you know that it's not as simple as walking into a TV studio and saying "hear me out". The reason Pakistan doesn't get a fair shake in the Western media is not due to oversight or lack of media reps on our side; it is a deliberate media blackout by these media outlets. When it comes to "national security", there is absolute uniformity in the Western media because, after 9/11, any deviation from the script is viewed as unpatriotic appeasement of "terrorists". The thought control and peer pressure is unprecedented. Even well respected programs like PBS Newshour and Charlie Rose are complicit. When's the last time you saw an actual Taliban present their side of the story?

When the Western media do interview Pakistanis, it's always the fifth columnists like Pervez Hoodbhoy or Ahmad Rashid who trot out the expected lines about "liberal" Pakistanis fighting an uphill battle against the evil PA and ISI. Even if the PA issued official statements, they would be ridiculed or spun around, the way they do it with Iranian statements.

It is a complete fiction that Western media is balanced and objective. That is only true for domestic matters because there is enough representation on both sides to keep the media honest. On matters of foreign policy -- especially "sensitive" matters -- the Western media is a fully compliant instrument of foreign policy.

I think we all agree that Pakistan needs to get its side of the story out, but the Western media will never air the Pakistani viewpoint. We need to empower our own media. There is no short term fix; it's a long term campaign -- like fixing our economy and developing self-reliance.

Hi,

It is not easy---but when you have the backing of the largest def website---then you have the oppurtunity of creating in-roads---small radio stations---small news papers---larger news papers---then bigger media----but you need a catapult to launch you into the orbit.

Without a support group---you are a nobody---and without any name behind you to propell you forward---you are a no name----.

That particular oppurtunity has been wasted by the high and mighty of this board----. Maybe I ask too much of them----how can they think any different than their parents and grand parents---that is what they have been taught---to hold a personal grudge and if you don't like someone---find ways to keep them down.

Instead of blaming america and american and western media---you need to ask the webby and admins and senior managers of this board---why did you not change your direction in mid-stride---when there was a willing person to do the job, why not give him the chance---.

Now you see them crying and whimpering like you know what----. Instead of blaming the foreigners----start it from your home---ask the question from the managers of this board----if they are so nationalists and love pakistan so much and want pakistan's voice to be heard, why did they not band together after OBL's execution and put forward a willing person to make a fight for pakistan----.