US responsible for the Murder of Pakistani Troops - Pak Rejects NATO Probe

[araz]

Hi,

It is not a matter of "I think it cannot happen"---you just cannot write off national interest just like that---when I was ready to put my head on the chopping block---what would it have mattered to anyone if I failed in my endeavour---at least I would say---I tried----.

You guys need to get out of this habbit of " I don't think it will happen " mindset, and give oppurtunity to those who want to take charge---. You have to learn to fight for every inch of your rights---and change the attitude to " Yes, we can make a difference "---kind of thinking.

It is not only you----it is the thinking of the whole nation----what you wrote " I just don't see it happening "---mothers--fathers---grandfathers---sons---daughters---every body living with this defeatist mentality----you people have already decided upon your fate----THEN WHY DO YOU BLAME OTHERS FOR WHAT THEY DO TO YOU? Then stop crying---.

Your quote " forget the american media"---what a blasphemy---is this the future of pakistan---are you the future of my motherland---what a shame---what a travesty---.

The problem over here is the projection of pakistan on world media---in the u s media---and you want to simply write it off---.

God Almighty---what has my motherland done to deserve this----. This type of thinking is beyond sickening---.

Mastan
What is stopping you now? We are backing you 100% . Go for it and try your best.
Araz

 

[VCheng]

Yes it might be lacking sir, ....................

If it is lacking, which I think it is, it is all your own fault. Please stop blaming others and look to yourself. That, Sir, is the bitter truth.

 

[MastanKhan]

I am not writing it off. My point is that titles on this forum mean nothing to ABC/CBS/NBC/Fox news. They don't care if you approach them as a Think Tank, an Opinionator, or as a plain old Member of Def.pk.

If people want to approach the media, there is nothing stopping them.

Sir,

By now you should have learnt and acknowledged that TITLES are everything---do you know why they were created in the first place---to put somebody on the pedastal for others to see and recognize and get their point of view across---.

Yes, people can reach the media individually---but that is a single voice amongst a million---but if you already have a prop that can raise you a 100 ft higher than anyone else to get your point across and give you a jump start---why would you not use it---do you know why they set up stages and podiums higher than where the listeners are---!!!!!!

If the title means nothing---why don't you guys give it away.

Once you start making waves at the lower media level, smalll papers, smaller radio station talk shows, the bigger media will come---it is a stair step progression---.

 

[lem34]

titles allthough occassionally "nice" or serving to remind us of achievement usually are a requirement of the insecure. On this forum it would also suggest you are part of the clique that exists. If I wanted to do an article and really wanted it in print I think I could do it relativley easily. it would matter little that i am on pdf or not. The quality would however matter.

 

[MastanKhan]

titles allthough occassionally "nice" or serving to remind us of achievement usually are a requirement of the insecure. On this forum it would also suggest you are part of the clique that exists. If I wanted to do an article and really wanted it in print I think I could do it relativley easily. it would matter little that i am on pdf or not. The quality would however matter.

Sir,

Wonderful---let us keep fighting and arguing about it----isn't that a great national past time----. The last sentence in your post is pure assumption---.


It is all about I, I, I ( i i i ), over here----can't you people get it through that I am talking about we we we---you people are a tragedy well worth for the nation---in you people's presence---the nation don't need enemies to progress----.

If it is such a difficult thing to understand this little process of propping and projection.

Truthfully---for your PERSONAL GAINS you people use all the props and relatives and safarish and whatever projects you----but when it comes to a nation----you people suddenly become worthless and at a loss for direction----God Almighty----what a travesty---.

HAVE SOME MERCY ON THE NATION PAKISTAN----come out of these pre-conceived beliefs that you have been taught to you and learn and listen to newer things.

My question to you is---whe there is a shorter direct way to the destination---why would you chose to take the longer and painful way, where there is every chance of failure----.

I will bet all of you pakistanis here---if it were for your personal gains, you would take advantage of every resource.

 

[lem34]

Yes it might be lacking sir, thanks to baigharat sell offs. We have our share of mir Sadiqs and Mir Jaffers. And u are no exception.

we do sadly neeed a bit off blood letting in Pakistan. Most countries have phase when they have to sort out the traitors

 

[lem34]

Sir,

Wonderful---let us keep fighting and arguing about it----isn't that a great national past time----. The last sentence in your post is pure assumption---.


It is all about I, I, I ( i i i ), over here----can't you people get it through that I am talking about we we we---you people are a tragedy well worth for the nation---in you people's presence---the nation don't need enemies to progress----.

If it is such a difficult thing to understand this little process of propping and projection.

Truthfully---for your PERSONAL GAINS you people use all the props and relatives and safarish and whatever projects you----but when it comes to a nation----you people suddenly become worthless and at a loss for direction----God Almighty----what a travesty---.

HAVE SOME MERCY ON THE NATION PAKISTAN----come out of these pre-conceived beliefs that you have been taught to you and learn and listen to newer things.

My question to you is---whe there is a shorter direct way to the destination---why would you chose to take the longer and painful way, where there is every chance of failure----.

I will bet all of you pakistanis here---if it were for your personal gains, you would take advantage of every resource.

You state that my last sentance is an assumption, that may be the case but that does not make it wrong on the contrary I stick to my assertion.

You then are critical that I speak in the first person, well what do you expect firstly I can only speak for myself secondly in the absence of an election or a group supporting me what do you want me to say.

You have suggested that for personal gain I would resort to using unfair means. I find that offensive and I would state that you have little in the way of evidence to base that on. Simply you dont know me,

Lastly please for the avoidance of doubt what are you suggesting? We are all aware that the forum does not have a constitution or articles of assosiation whereby a humble member can unilaterally take precipitous action

 

[MastanKhan]

You state that my last sentance is an assumption, that may be the case but that does not make it wrong on the contrary I stick to my assertion.

You then are critical that I speak in the first person, well what do you expect firstly I can only speak for myself secondly in the absence of an election or a group supporting me what do you want me to say.

You have suggested that for personal gain I would resort to using unfair means. I find that offensive and I would state that you have little in the way of evidence to base that on. Simply you dont know me,

Lastly please for the avoidance of doubt what are you suggesting? We are all aware that the forum does not have a constitution or articles of assosiation whereby a humble member can unilaterally take precipitous action

Hi,

So---about 26 years ago when I told my buddy John B---I am not corrupt---my father was not corrupt---I don't take bribes----and he replied---MK---it does not absolve you of the sins of the others and the nation----it is your moral obligation and duty to make sure it doesnot happen at all---and then I realized how wrong I was just by labelling myself honest, I thought I had done my share of work---but how wrong I was proven to be---the badge of national dishonesty is mine to wear as well.

You see---it is not about i i i---or me me me----it is about us---. Being labelled as corrupt pakistani---I stand in line with all those who are----by default---.

This ego of your's that you have and seemingly it is hurt---the same ego is held ten times over by the Think Tank members and senior mods and admins----. You seriously want to do good for the country----then swallow your pride and eat your ego----and when you feel that you have never been made angrier and insulted like never before---take a breather and think---why is this person so vehemently making such statements---Think like Ali---when someone spat at his face the instance before he was ready to deliver the death blow---or think like Umar---in whose presence was a non muslim brought----that person was condemning the prophet and islam---people were furious---but Umar stated---you need to ask why is he saying what he is----no sane man would say something like this---unless he has a reason to----which was later foudn to be true----.

 

[fatman17]

'Inadequate co-ordination...' to blame for November airstrike, says Pentagon

James Hardy Asia-Pacific Editor - London



A Pentagon investigation into the 26 November NATO airstrike that killed 24 Pakistani troops has determined that "inadequate co-ordination by US and Pakistani military officers" was responsible.

A US Department of Defense (DoD) statement about the report, which has not been released, said that US forces had been justified in ordering the airstrike but that "reliance on incorrect mapping information" had led to Pakistani positions being targeted by mistake.

The airstrike was the worst 'friendly fire' incident involving the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) and Pakistani troops in the 10 years since the toppling of the Taliban regime and capped a terrible year for US-Pakistani relations.

A NATO representative in Kabul told the Associated Press that both sides had made errors. "The report says we recognise we made mistakes, and that mistakes were also made by the Pakistanis," the official said.

The incident occurred after a joint US-Afghan commando unit of about 150 troops operating in Kunar Province came under "direct and heavy" machine gun and "pretty accurate" mortar fire from a ridgeline in the direction of the Pakistani border, Brigadier General Stephen Clark, Director of Plans, Programmes, Requirements and Assessments, HQ, US Air Force Special Operations Command, said in a DoD briefing on 22 December. The ground force commander believed his forces were being attacked by militants and initially called for a show of force by air assets in the area, Gen Clark said.

These assets comprised a Hawker Beechcraft MC-12W Liberty intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) aircraft, two Boeing F-15E Strike Eagles, two AH-64D Apache attack helicopters and a Lockheed Martin AC-130H Spectre gunship. The large number of aircraft in the area was justified because the Afghan and US forces "did anticipate going into a hostile environment," Gen Clark said. (talk about overkill)

Although an F-15 and the AC-130 fired flares that "illuminated the whole valley ... this show of force didn't cause the machine gun fire or mortars to cease fire," Gen Clark said. After checking with ISAF Regional Command East that no Pakistani forces were in the area, the ground force commander directed the AC-130 to fire on the positions he had identified. In a second engagement, the AC-130 and an Apache fired on the Pakistani positions.

According to the report, "inadequate co-ordination by US and Pakistani military officers operating through the border co-ordination centre - including our reliance on incorrect mapping information shared with the Pakistani liaison officer - resulted in a misunderstanding about the true location of Pakistani military units".

Gen Clark said that within ISAF there was a feeling that the Pakistan Army was "unwilling to give information on all its border posts out of a perception that their operations had been compromised" by doing so. The New York Times also reported that NATO did not tell Pakistan that its troops were operating on the border, meaning that Pakistani soldiers would not have expected such forces near their posts. NATO and Pakistani forces are supposed to share information when launching operations on the border to avoid this kind of incident[/U].

Nonetheless, the Pentagon statement said that ISAF forces had acted correctly given the circumstances. "The investigating officer found that US forces, given what information they had available to them at the time, acted in self-defence and with appropriate force after being fired upon," the statement said. "He [the investigating officer] also found that there was no intentional effort to target persons or places known to be part of the Pakistani military or to deliberately provide inaccurate location information to Pakistani officials."

 

[Solomon2]

Gunner, do you know what's happened to the Pakistani liaison officer who made the goof?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Gunner, do you know what's happened to the Pakistani liaison officer who made the goof?

The Pakistani liaison officer did not make the 'goof' - it was the Yanks who provided the incorrect coordinates and it was a NATO/US official who used the wrong map-overlay, not the Pakistani.

This much even the parts of the US report offered publicly have made clear.

 

[lem34]

It is clear to see that most here on the forum believe that U.S. attack its the Pakistani border check-posts, although they knew that they were Pakistani. And some believe that it was a targeted attack on Pakistan as had been planned in advance
But I have not heard one good reason why the U.S. should make so much mischief, and risking cooperation with Pakistan for a couple of check-posts.
That they are Satans spawn, monster or just evil, is not very convincing answer for me.
So my question is, why would U.S do it?

Personally, I believe there was a fu, as so often happens in the heat of battle.

I saw this post, it would be funny if it wasnt an insult to our fallen. Then along comes cheng and thanks it. why after all the conversations we have had would someone who knows whats going on thank this ridiculous pathetic post

 

[VCheng]

In Pakistan Already Tis the season to be jolly - 26 is tomorrow. However 1 month isn't good enough either I'm hoping for a permanent closure forcing this idiotic war to shut down. Hence we need to close the airspace as well.

As I have admitted elsewhere, my estimate of 30 days closure was wrong. Pakistan's resolve gives it the advantage for now. Hence if airspace closure is the logical step being considered, now is the time to do it. I wish this strategy the best of luck.

 

[fd24]

As I have admitted elsewhere, my estimate of 30 days closure was wrong. Pakistan's resolve gives it the advantage for now. Hence if airspace closure is the logical step being considered, now is the time to do it. I wish this strategy the best of luck.

VC - Its ok we can all be wrong sometimes. I hoped with respect you was wrong and i think in fact we all did barr you. Dont worry it happens to the best of us. The closing of the border is haveing tremendous effect and is squeezing the US. Airspace should in my opinion be left alone - just wait another 4 weeks and lets see what happens. Patience is a great virtue to have at the mo.

 

[VCheng]

................Airspace should in my opinion be left alone - just wait another 4 weeks and lets see what happens. Patience is a great virtue to have at the mo.

Of course, let's see what the coming four weeks bring.