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US responsible for the Murder of Pakistani Troops - Pak Rejects NATO Probe

The US people need to open their eyes.
The brilliance of the free market, good basic governance and infrastructure and a prosperous economy for most - a numbed populace barely able to pay attention to domestic issues, let along engage in debate over the morality and justification of a massive military industrial complex and its 'foreign campaigns to protect the national interest'.

And lest someone does question, make sure there is a range of ideological and political 'foreign enemies' to justify the continued existence of the vast military industrial complex and its pointless foreign campaigns and colonies - 'THEY hate our freedoms and democracy! They will kill us here if we don't fight them there!'

Add steady drumbeat of propaganda against the 'axis of evil' and what not, and the populace retreats into its numbness ...

..'NEWS ANCHOR: ... an alleged US airstrike on a bus has resulted in two dozen children being killed. NATO has denied it attacked a school bus - it claims the dead were in fact Taliban midgets ... the US has promised a full investigation whose results will be released in 2020 ...

AMERICAN VIEWER: 'Those people have been killing each other for hundreds of years ... Honey ... did you get the chips and dip for the Superbowl party this weekend ....'
 
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not only must they drive a hard bargain they must ask america to accept India has no role in afghanistan. we simply cannot accept an enemy being created on another border. I dont buy the story that india needs several consulates in afghanistan??? what they there for frackin tourism????????

in fact this is more important than money in the long run

That is a good point. Pakistan needs to make this clear as best as it can, but it would be wise to have a plan to deal with an India-Afghanistan nexus to its West within 5 to 10 years, for it is likely to happen.
 
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There is a bad news in town, there was a day both world bank and imf refused to give more money to Pakistan out of no where world bank is to pay Pakistan $5.5B, quite interesting situation. Just when Pakistan decided or rumors began we have this latest news. How would Pakistan repay it when all industries/sectors are dead.

World Bank sets $5.5 billion in aid for Pakistan - Yahoo! News

Ah good sir, who's planning on paying it back? It is beneficial for Zardari today, Musharaff before him, and Nawaz and Benazir in the 90s...they take loans, pocket most of it, relying on the instability of Pakistan, which topples the government every few years, before the impact of repayment can be felt and then go enjoy all those dollars in far off mansions...while the nation gets riddled with money it can't pay back since it was never invested in the first place.
Loans can be highly beneficial and the return from the industries they revive can be huge; too bad, the only place they will end up in Pakistan, is in our leadership's pockets. Which is why I do agree with the underlying point of Mr. VCheng, in the sense that our determination of today is only as strong as the ability of our leadership to resist the increasing amount of "aid" the US must be offering to Zardari and co. to put this matter to rest.
 
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The brilliance of the free market, good basic governance and infrastructure and a prosperous economy for most - ......................
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You nailed it! As long as these things are provided, just about anything can go down well.
 
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..............Which is why I do agree with the underlying point of Mr. VCheng, in the sense that our determination of today is only as strong as the ability of our leadership to resist the increasing amount of "aid" the US must be offering to Zardari and co. to put this matter to rest.

Not just Zardari and company, but many more achkans and khakis alike, I am sure.
 
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The brilliance of the free market, good basic governance and infrastructure and a prosperous economy for most - a numbed populace barely able to pay attention to domestic issues, let along engage in debate over the morality and justification of a massive military industrial complex and its 'foreign campaigns to protect the national interest'.
Why should they do it, when they have wannabe goras to do it for them? That too free of cost, ok not exactly, they too have to provide them with "The brilliance of the free market, good basic governance and infrastructure and a prosperous economy", which they probably were not getting back at home or may be they were getting some of it, but not as good as they can get it by serving their masters elsewhere. Oh wait, this is not necessary, i forgot that the yanks treat even (american) animals much better than people in our part of the world treat other humans.
 
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...........Oh wait, this is not necessary, i forgot that the yanks treat even (american) animals much better than people in our part of the world treat other humans.

So is that USA's fault too?
 
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It is - the anonymity and/or 'faceless aspect' of the internet allows certain sentiment, otherwise hidden, to be expressed more openly and honestly.

What's more damning and shocking is that he's not hiding behing a veil while saying this. He says it frequently and openingly on his FB account and is pretty proud of it too. Seems like the 'few' in power have succeeded in making the most dangerous weapon ever - a man deprived of a moral compass and conscious. A man willing to do almost anything to anyone.

What saddens me even more is that he was a pretty good kid and I have seen him at his best behavior, and to see what he's now become is just heartbreaking.
 
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“If you are not able to close the Mexican border, when you have the technology at your call, when there is no war,” he said, “how can you expect us to close our border, especially if you are not locking the doors on your side?”. This article is a must read ...


The Pakistanis Have a Point

18pakistan_chameleon-slide-7KRQ-articleLarge.jpg
 
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so this this was the much awaited 11/23 report? what did they disclose that we didn't already know from the series earlier media releases? all bullshit, that's what this is, west is master of this.

This is what I know and only care about:

The Damage that was dealt was to Pakistan. The dead were Pakistani soldiers. The only ones left feeling pain of the brave martyrds years from now will be their familes. The culprits of the hainous acts are NATO forces.

And in this light of this I'm glad Pakistan has decided to stand firm on their boycott of virtually every west lead investigation and probe. Enough of their bullshit, we dont need to be part of that.

Great move with continuing the blockade. Dont open it. Let them go through their alternate routes, since 'Pak routes dont mean much to them anyway.' Let them come to their senses and open dilogue for resumption on "Pak's terms". And then rip them a new one with your new terms. That oughta teach em.
 
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Pakistan rejects US probe on lethal strikes

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Military says the it does not agree with the findings of the US inquiry as being reported by the media.

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Friday rejected a US probe into American air strikes that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers, providing little sign of a swift resolution to the worst crisis in the countries’ fragile alliance.

“Pakistan’s army does not agree with the findings of the US/Nato inquiry as being reported in the media. The inquiry report is short on facts,” the military said in a short statement.

“A detailed response will be given as and when the formal report is received,” it said.

The inquiry, headed by a US Air Force general, blamed US and Pakistani forces for a series of mistakes that led to “tragic” air strikes on November 26, the deadliest single cross-border attack of the 10-year war in Afghanistan.

The Americans acknowledged for the first time significant responsibility for the strikes, but insisted their troops responded only after coming under heavy machine-gun and mortar fire, angering Islamabad, which has denied any such thing.

The probe portrayed a disastrous spate of errors and botched communication in which both sides failed to tell the other about their operational plans or location of troops, exposing deep distrust.

Pakistan refused to take part in the inquiry, having criticised previous investigations into cross-border attacks as worthless. Instead, it has sought a formal apology from US President Barack Obama.

Islamabad has kept its Afghan border closed to Nato convoys since November 26, boycotted the Bonn conference on Afghanistan and ordered Americans to leave an air base understood to have been a hub for CIA drone strikes on the Taliban.

The 28-day border closure is unprecedented in the 10-year US-led war in Afghanistan, shutting down the quickest and cheapest supply line for 140,000 foreign troops fighting the Taliban.

Analysts in Pakistan saw little in the report that would repair relations, particularly with the government and military in a standoff over alleged attempts by one of the president’s aides to rein in the power of the military.

“Our military and government have promoted anti-Americanism on this issue, thereby restricting their own options to re-open negotiations with the US,” Lahore-based security analyst Hasan Askari told AFP.

“We are not sure how long they will continue with this stalemate. Given the present crises in Pakistan, neither the civil government nor the military will make a positive move towards the US,” he added.

Brigadier General Stephen Clark, who led the probe, said US aircraft carried out three strikes after American and Afghan commandos raiding a village near the border came under heavy machine-gun and mortar fire.

The US did not tell the Pakistanis in advance about the night raid and the Pakistanis had never notified Nato of new border posts in the area, he said.

“For the loss of life — and for the lack of proper coordination between US and Pakistani forces that contributed to those losses — we express our deepest regret,” the US statement said, stopping short of an apology.

The report upheld much of Pakistan’s version of events, namely that the Americans called in the wrong coordinates when asking for clearance to attack, but contradicted Pakistan by insisting its troops came under fire first.

The Pentagon acknowledged the Americans relayed “incorrect mapping information” to the Pakistanis, giving the wrong location for Pakistani troops at border outposts, and found “inadequate coordination” between both sides.

Nato agreed with the findings and said “a series of mistakes were made on both sides in failing to properly coordinate their locations and actions both before the operation and during the resulting engagement”.

The episode reflected “an over-arching lack of trust,” Clark said.

Nato officers view Pakistan as reluctant to disclose all their border posts and the military in Afghanistan has the impression that when they have shared details, some operations have been compromised, he said.

The air strikes were the latest in a series of crises this year that have brought the fragile Pakistani-US alliance to an all-time low.

In January, a CIA contractor shot dead two Pakistanis and was taken into custody, accused of double murder. On May 2, a covert American raid killed Osama bin Laden near the capital without Washington informing the government.
 
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“A detailed response will be given as and when the formal report is received,” it said.

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International geopolitics can never stop. The detailed response by Paksitan will now be very important indeed, for present and future implications for both countries.
 
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It is clear to see that most here on the forum believe that U.S. attack its the Pakistani border check-posts, although they knew that they were Pakistani. And some believe that it was a targeted attack on Pakistan as had been planned in advance
But I have not heard one good reason why the U.S. should make so much mischief, and risking cooperation with Pakistan for a couple of check-posts.
That they are Satans spawn, monster or just evil, is not very convincing answer for me.
So my question is, why would U.S do it?

Personally, I believe there was a fu, as so often happens in the heat of battle.

Wag the Dog (1997) - IMDb

Hint: it's the economy.
 
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International geopolitics can never stop. The detailed response by Paksitan will now be very important indeed, for present and future implications for both countries.

Who is Pakistan? All our ministers and ambassadors are either American or British!!!!!!!!!
 
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Where Pakistan stands today only a false-flag operation to completely corner Pakistan can be used to effectively punish Pakistan. Short of that-- I think Pakistan will more than survive.

Yes, I've been thinking about America's next move. A false flag is a given, but I don't think they will do it in an election year. Right now, it's important to show stability and progress on WOT, so an actual operation is unlikely. What we will see, most likely, will be some high profile arrests of people linked to Pakistan.

There is always a pool of fanatics who can be secretly egged on to plan something big and then exposed at the right time. That is precisely why Western governments love people like Anjum Chaudhry -- they provide a convenient hatchery of fanatics useful for just such occasions.
 
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