US responsible for the Murder of Pakistani Troops - Pak Rejects NATO Probe

[Xeric]

Yes.. but then we are effectively implying that the emotions in place are those that reflect those of the Crusades..
which is what a lot of quasi-philosophers have been saying for a while.

Wait Santro, let's not go there.

How many times have the Pakistanis soldiers attacked an indian soldier just because he was a Hindu? Or did OBL and party slammed the planes because they were attacking Christens? We fought on our east because we saw an enemy who was eyeing us as an Indian, not because he reads Mahabharat (notwithstanding the fact that dissection and unification of Mother India was religious enough), similarly 9/11 happened because someone thought that what America does is wrong, not because they wanted to built a mosque where once the twin towers stood.

Jesus Rifles (the ideology that follows through it) and having the slogan of Imaan, Taqwa, Jehad Fi Sabillalah are not the same thing, if you get what i am trying to say here.

But as you very rightly pointed out that "Without hate.. there can be no motivation for a war for resources", they have to 'create' some foggy enemy (in this case, the religion of Islam ---> the country that holds its biggest banner), which they have succeeded to quite an extent, as visible from the status of the ex-marine.

So when you reply "Yes" to V's post, it implies as if Pakistan Armed Forces have been initiating wars (as many believe) with india (or Kashmir or covert acts) not because they were defending (even if it was a Preemptive action - if you know, like 'Riposte' and 'Counter-Offensive', 'Preemption' is a DEFENSIVE action, not an offensive one) itself, but because their religion/ideology (which in turn translate into hate) said so.

So as you rightly said, Hate is necessary for war for resources (western case), it is not necessary for war for survival (our case now and in the past).


P.S. Ok, now i am myself confused.

 

[VCheng]

....................

P.S. Ok, now i am myself confused.

Says it all!

Hate is can be only one manifestation of an ideology driven basis for anything, not just resources and/or survival issues. Quite often the process starts without any hate, but risks falling prey to it simply because can be a strong motivation that can be harnessed easier that other types of justifications.

 

[lem34]

What if that "elsewhere" is the source of this line of thinking ? What if the soldiers are doing what they do best - obeying their orders ?

self delete

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Is it a first incidence of any kind that the executions ( deaths by friendly fire )carried out by the u s millitary and the whitewash NOT been accepted by the recipient nation---I don't recall any other nation standing up like that to the u s----.

Now pakistan has the oppurtunity to re-write the deal again---pakistan must ask for one years expenses in advance and reserve and one years expenses upfront as a security deposit---and by the end of the 10th month---the payment for the next year should be received in full---. Any delay will result in fines starting at a minimum of $50 million plus 20% of the yearly expense---and if money not received within 45 days---the right of way will be closed---security deposit forfeited---and can be re-opened with another security deposit of $250 million and two years expenses up front---.

Does the millitary have the courage and strength to do it---the civilian govt doesnot have the ballz---they are running on u s's goodwill as of now. Pak millitary needs to use the media to its advantage---Haqqani had destroyed pakistan's image in the U S.

On the other hand---pak millitary must strike harder on the al qaeda and their cohorts---strike hard---strike deep and take them out.

 

[VCheng]

Hi,

Is it a first incidence of any kind that the executions ( deaths by friendly fir )carried out by the u s millitary and the whitewash been accepted by the recipient nation---I don't recall any other nation standing up like that to the u s----.

Now pakistan has the oppurtunity to re-write the deal again---pakistan must ask for one years expenses in advance and reserve and one years expenses upfront as a security deposit---and by the end of the 10th month---the payment for the next year should be received in full---. Any delay will result in fines starting at a minimum of $50 million plus 20% of the yearly expense---and if money not received within 45 days---the right of way will be closed---security deposit forfeited---and can be re-opened with another security deposit of $250 million and two years expenses up front---.

Does the millitary have the courage and strength to do it---the civilian govt doesnot have the ballz---they are running on u s's goodwill as of now.

On the other hand---pak millitary must strike harder on the al qaeda and their cohorts---strike hard---strike deep and take them out.

There is much more to this than just money, Sir.

 

[foxbat]

There is much more to this than just money, Sir.

But thats what it will eventually boil down to..

 

[VCheng]

But thats what it will eventually boil down to..

"Money, money, money,
It's a rich man's world!"

- ABBA.

 

[lem34]

Hi,

Is it a first incidence of any kind that the executions ( deaths by friendly fire )carried out by the u s millitary and the whitewash NOT been accepted by the recipient nation---I don't recall any other nation standing up like that to the u s----.

Now pakistan has the oppurtunity to re-write the deal again---pakistan must ask for one years expenses in advance and reserve and one years expenses upfront as a security deposit---and by the end of the 10th month---the payment for the next year should be received in full---. Any delay will result in fines starting at a minimum of $50 million plus 20% of the yearly expense---and if money not received within 45 days---the right of way will be closed---security deposit forfeited---and can be re-opened with another security deposit of $250 million and two years expenses up front---.

Does the millitary have the courage and strength to do it---the civilian govt doesnot have the ballz---they are running on u s's goodwill as of now. Pak millitary needs to use the media to its advantage---Haqqani had destroyed pakistan's image in the U S.

On the other hand---pak millitary must strike harder on the al qaeda and their cohorts---strike hard---strike deep and take them out.

not only must they drive a hard bargain they must ask america to accept India has no role in afghanistan. we simply cannot accept an enemy being created on another border. I dont buy the story that india needs several consulates in afghanistan??? what they there for frackin tourism????????

in fact this is more important than money in the long run

 

[foxbat]

"Money, money, money,
It's a rich man's world!"

- ABBA.

And right on the cue

World Bank sets $5.5 billion in aid for Pakistan - The Times of India

WASHINGTON: The World Bank on Thursday said it would provide Pakistan with $5.5 billion in development aid over the next two years

"We will continue our strong support to Pakistan, while keeping a keen eye on implementation to ensure that these efforts translate into real results on the ground," said the bank's Pakistan country director Rachid Benmessaoud.

 

[MastanKhan]

There is much more to this than just money, Sir.

Sir,

Yes there is more to it---but money does indeed dull the pain a tad bit faster---. It also gets the attention of the aggressor as well---the problem here is where would that money go when we have Zardari and Gilani running the country---.

There is indeed lot more to it that the execution of pak soldiers on base salala---.

 

[foxbat]

It is a political mistake to be seen and then painted as a party that simply refuses to listen at all. It is better to listen, and then reject, calmly and logically. Repeat as necessary.

I think the cancellation is from the USA side and not Pakistan side..

 

[fd24]

not only must they drive a hard bargain they must ask america to accept India has no role in afghanistan. we simply cannot accept an enemy being created on another border. I dont buy the story that india needs several consulates in afghanistan??? what they there for frackin tourism????????

in fact this is more important than money in the long run

It is the fault of Pakistan at the time the indian consulates went up - it was to gesture by the US to flex their biceps.

Simple the Pakistani hierachy should have been firm from day one.

 

[VelocuR]

Haven't they already disclosed that they made mistakes? They did not inform the Pakistanis that they were conducting operations near the border as they were expected to, that itself would have warned the Pakistanis to expect them and so all this would have been avoided. Their second mistake was to send incorrect map coordinates to the Pakistani liaison officer in that joint control centre. Had the correct coordinates been sent, the Pakistani LO would have immediately pointed out the location of his post where the NATO operation was underway and the operation would have been halted.

What amazes me was why the American did not have the coordinates of the Pakistani post marked on their maps? Wasn't it a permanent border post? Permanent border posts which have existed over a long period of time have the habit of finding their way into even civilian survey maps. How could they not be on military maps being used for operations in that very area? If this post was not a permanent post but one which was somehow mobile or semi mobile, even then the current locations of all such post should have been available to the US/NATO.

One point being raised by the US side is that the Pakistanis fired at them first and so the firefight ensued. I don't buy that at all. It is common knowledge that isolated posts in hostile territory do tend to be trigger happy. No one in his right mind will ever try to approach such a post at night without prior warning and coordination. Even a patrol returning to its post at night has recognition signals tied up to avoid accidental or friendly fire by panicky sentries. If the US team approached the Pakistani post at night without forewarning them then they were begging to be fired at. All it needs is for one sentry to open fire and then the whole post erupts and within seconds, everyone is firing.

All in all, a rather pathetic way of fighting a war on terror.

"Every Pakistani soldier knows that the Taliban doesn't have gunships and AC-130s," one high-ranking official close to the investigation said. "But that's not the point. The point is that they contend that we fired first. They're wrong. They fired first. We responded. And then they called in the air support, and proceeded to attack us at length."

A second intelligence official called the Pentagon findings "strange," saying they "contradict what we have communicated so far to the Americans. This report is not good news."

 

[Luftwaffe]

Sir,

the problem here is where would that money go when we have Zardari and Gilani running the country---.

There is a bad news in town, there was a day both world bank and imf refused to give more money to Pakistan out of no where world bank is to pay Pakistan $5.5B, quite interesting situation. Just when Pakistan decided or rumors began we have this latest news. How would Pakistan repay it when all industries/sectors are dead.

World Bank sets $5.5 billion in aid for Pakistan - Yahoo! News

 

[lem34]

with zardari and gillani at the helm do we want anyone to give them money for pakistan??

hell I wouldnt give $10 dolllars to them