US issues waiver for sale of major defence equipment to Pakistan

[Awesome]

Do we want their money or do we want vindication?

I don't want handouts. If it were up to me, I'd make them give the "certification" and then say no thanks, don't want it.

If they want to get into a business transaction then that's another thing.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

I don't want handouts. If it were up to me, I'd make them give the "certification" and then say no thanks, don't want it.

If they want to get into a business transaction then that's another thing.

I understand that personally you may not want handouts, but nationally, we do need to get the financial benefits from a business transaction that will help our armed forces with needed equipment. I think we should go ahead with it no matter what the internal politics of USA require in terms of certifications and other such nonsense.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

i hope Pakistan does not fall into this honey trap and keeps away fron American...sanction pro..many strings attached .. equipment...

I am sorry to say, when its come to free things to Pakistan it is hard to resist, thats a Pakistani nature and People will probably say you stupid for not getting free stuff. YOU MAD BRO !

 

[fatman17]

I am sorry to say, when its come to free things to Pakistan it is hard to resist, thats a Pakistani nature and People will probably say you stupid for not getting free stuff. YOU MAD BRO !

this is last chance for pakistan to 'behave' itself and act as a reliable partner of the international community. it has to give up its jihadist ideals - its not getting them anywhere fast.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Why should PAF go for block 15 when that money can be invested in JF-17.

I know a lot of people will argue with me on this, but I believe that F-16 block 15 is the ultimate WVR fighter ( much better WVR fighter than any Block 52 or 60 F16's ) and there are times when that comes in handy. Because a block 15 can now be purchased at next to nothing, dollar for dollar, it really is a good buy now.

If for the price of 2 or 3 JF17's I can buy 12 to 15 older F16 (BLK 15's) I would get enough to 3 or 4 Squadrons just for close combat training and keeping pilots current at low cost. Please understand you need the fighter pilots to fly 200+ hours flying time and doing all this training on the latest most expensive aircrafts can eat up your budget fast.

This is the main reason why so many Air Forces around the World kept flying the F-5's because it is a very cheap aircraft to operate and maintain and is ideal for many types of pilot training and keeping pilots current with the required hours of flying time every month.

 

[khanboy007]

Pakistan should object to the citation of "National Security Interest" clause. The waiver should be given on merit, not through a loophole.

By saying its for NSI, they are refusing to certify our efforts against terrorism which is an insult to the many soldiers that have been killed fighting terrorism. By accepting this aid we are declaring their deaths were in vain.

i agree with you but we should also keep in mind that we paid in blood for a war that was never ours !!! so a heavy compensation from their side is obligatory in my opinion......we shouldnt be waived off with riffles, pistols or some other ordinary defence weapons....

 

[Safriz]

I know a lot of people will argue with me on this, but I believe that F-16 block 15 is the ultimate WVR fighter ( much better WVR fighter than any Block 52 or 60 F16's ) and there are times when that comes in handy. Because a block 15 can now be purchased at next to nothing, dollar for dollar, it really is a good buy now.

If for the price of 2 or 3 JF17's I can buy 12 to 15 older F16 (BLK 15's) I would get enough to 3 or 4 Squadrons just for close combat training and keeping pilots current at low cost. Please understand you need the fighter pilots to fly 200+ hours flying time and doing all this training on the latest most expensive aircrafts can eat up your budget fast.

This is the main reason why so many Air Forces around the World kept flying the F-5's because it is a very cheap aircraft to operate and maintain and is ideal for many types of pilot training and keeping pilots current with the required hours of flying time every month.

You have a very good point here.
But sanctions will make the planes useless.
Or not?

this is last chance for pakistan to 'behave' itself and act as a reliable partner of the international community. it has to give up its jihadist ideals - its not getting them anywhere fast.

Its not about jihad..
Its about sancrions.
US can stop spare parts supply anytime.
Has happened in the past...will hapoen agaun.
Its not wise to fall in the same hole over and over again.

 

[Pakistanisage]

You have a very good point here.
But sanctions will make the planes useless.
Or not?

Not really.

These aircrafts are so cheap and can be acquired from so many countries as used airplanes. When these countries sell their inventory of used fighters, they practically give away their stock of spare parts inventory, because with the airplanes sold , those spare parts inventory is a burden ( i.e. warehousing and clerical costs of keeping track of things). Besides after sales there is no practical use of these parts.

Not only that but also the fact these used aircrafts are purchased so cheap that buyer Air Forces buy extra aircrafts just to CANNABILIZE them for spare parts. This is precisely why PAF bought those used Mirage III's and V's in the 80's and 90's for the spare parts at next to nothing prices.

Just imagine, more than 8,000 F-16 BLK 15 were produced and are sitting in some Air Forces Hangars costing them money to warehouse. They are eager to get rid of these birds becuase they have money to buy brand spanking new aircrafts. These F16's still have a lot of engine hours and airframe hours left on them. I think that is an opportunity for PAF with 3500+ pilots to train and keep current to do this at a cost effective manner.

 

[Slayer786]

The news is positive. Lets not start a rumour mill here about what will happen.
Much ado about nothing.

 

[Awesome]

i agree with you but we should also keep in mind that we paid in blood for a war that was never ours !!! so a heavy compensation from their side is obligatory in my opinion......we shouldnt be waived off with riffles, pistols or some other ordinary defence weapons....

Put that in writing that we gave many sacrifices for the American cause.

 

[khanboy007]

Put that in writing that we gave many sacrifices for the American cause.

yes we have, no doubts on it !!!

 

[araz]

I know a lot of people will argue with me on this, but I believe that F-16 block 15 is the ultimate WVR fighter ( much better WVR fighter than any Block 52 or 60 F16's ) and there are times when that comes in handy. Because a block 15 can now be purchased at next to nothing, dollar for dollar, it really is a good buy now.

If for the price of 2 or 3 JF17's I can buy 12 to 15 older F16 (BLK 15's) I would get enough to 3 or 4 Squadrons just for close combat training and keeping pilots current at low cost. Please understand you need the fighter pilots to fly 200+ hours flying time and doing all this training on the latest most expensive aircrafts can eat up your budget fast.

This is the main reason why so many Air Forces around the World kept flying the F-5's because it is a very cheap aircraft to operate and maintain and is ideal for many types of pilot training and keeping pilots current with the required hours of flying time every month.

Sorry to say this but this post does not do justice to a 61 yrs old who claims to be ex PAF or to your internet name.F16s Bl15s of that age if acquired by PAF will need to undergo MLU. The MLU kit alone is 15 million $. The planes come free as EDAs but you have to pay for the MLU kit. So in short you cant have 3 F16s for the price of one JFT. If things were as simplistic as you claim, PAF would have a couple of hundredf16s stood on every base rather than going for JFT. The other fact to remember is that MLUed F16 when they have gone on for sale have costed around 15-18 million$ if not more. The last thing is theat the US is not a fool to let you line up your tarmacs with old planes as free bees and get nothing out of it. According to senior PAF officials(whom you would know if you are who you claim to be) the US literraly arm twisted you into Buying Bl52s so you could release some of your planes from them.
F16s are no doubt beautiful machines but they dont come cheap even as second hand machines and your problem is lack of cash to buy the new goodies.
Araz

i agree with you but we should also keep in mind that we paid in blood for a war that was never ours !!! so a heavy compensation from their side is obligatory in my opinion......we shouldnt be waived off with riffles, pistols or some other ordinary defence weapons....

THE POST IS METAPHORICAL SO DONT TAKE THIS PERSONALLY!!!
You did so either out of fear or out of lust for crusts from their tables just like dogs do. They will treat you like the dogs that you have posed as. Give you a pat on the back when you do their dirty work and a kick when you ar hesitant. First learn to stand up like a man and learn to deal with them like equals before you get treated as equals.
Araz

 

[araz]

Not really.

These aircrafts are so cheap and can be acquired from so many countries as used airplanes. When these countries sell their inventory of used fighters, they practically give away their stock of spare parts inventory, because with the airplanes sold , those spare parts inventory is a burden ( i.e. warehousing and clerical costs of keeping track of things). Besides after sales there is no practical use of these parts.

Not only that but also the fact these used aircrafts are purchased so cheap that buyer Air Forces buy extra aircrafts just to CANNABILIZE them for spare parts. This is precisely why PAF bought those used Mirage III's and V's in the 80's and 90's for the spare parts at next to nothing prices.

Just imagine, more than 8,000 F-16 BLK 15 were produced and are sitting in some Air Forces Hangars costing them money to warehouse. They are eager to get rid of these birds becuase they have money to buy brand spanking new aircrafts. These F16's still have a lot of engine hours and airframe hours left on them. I think that is an opportunity for PAF with 3500+ pilots to train and keep current to do this at a cost effective manner.

You cant acquire them without US approval and why would they approve it, when they can milk you without the need of tempting you with anything.
Araz

 

[forcetrip]

I know a lot of people will argue with me on this, but I believe that F-16 block 15 is the ultimate WVR fighter ( much better WVR fighter than any Block 52 or 60 F16's ) and there are times when that comes in handy. Because a block 15 can now be purchased at next to nothing, dollar for dollar, it really is a good buy now.

If for the price of 2 or 3 JF17's I can buy 12 to 15 older F16 (BLK 15's) I would get enough to 3 or 4 Squadrons just for close combat training and keeping pilots current at low cost. Please understand you need the fighter pilots to fly 200+ hours flying time and doing all this training on the latest most expensive aircrafts can eat up your budget fast.

This is the main reason why so many Air Forces around the World kept flying the F-5's because it is a very cheap aircraft to operate and maintain and is ideal for many types of pilot training and keeping pilots current with the required hours of flying time every month.

Training on Block 15's? How many hours do you think a block 15 would last? With an MLU upgrade you are putting your investment in the shop for x amount of time and to pay about the same amount it would end up getting one that is air worthy. Bad investment in my opinion. Also need to find out who is selling these blk 15's.

 

[khanboy007]

THE POST IS METAPHORICAL SO DONT TAKE THIS PERSONALLY!!!
You did so either out of fear or out of lust for crusts from their tables just like dogs do. They will treat you like the dogs that you have posed as. Give you a pat on the back when you do their dirty work and a kick when you ar hesitant. First learn to stand up like a man and learn to deal with them like equals before you get treated as equals.
Araz

no no i wont take it personally, please go ahead, i respect your opinion and i also agree to it....