US, India Consider C-17 Exchange

[Echo_419]

The way i see it Yanks will gain the most not us
Though these kind of relationships are good

 

[illusion8]

That may or may not happen; depending on the "need factor". The necessity and the gravity of the need(s). Apart from cost-effectiveness.
As the old adage goes: why fix it, if it ai'nt broke?

@Capt.Popeye, Do the Americans take a keen interest in the usage of their products after sales and delivery usually? considering most platforms that will be put up on that northern border will be of American make - Chinooks, C 130, C 17, Apache's, M 777 - I see something else in the apparent involvement/ interest here.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@Capt.Popeye, Do the Americans take a keen interest in the usage of their products after sales and delivery usually? considering most platforms that will be put up on that northern border will be of American make - Chinooks, C 130, C 17, Apache's, M 777 - I see something else in the apparent involvement/ interest here.

I think the Americans do. Sometimes overtly and sometimes covertly. Given the present state of Indo-US relations, the overt component is likely to be greater. They are likely to have some vested interest in what happens on that border (not they are any less interested in the other border, but never mind that). Even they have a sharp eye on the proceedings there in the North.

Apart from that; the news report being quoted and discusssed here is also related to what knowledge and skill-sets that American Aviators can gain through interaction with Indian Aviators in conditions that are not part of the USAF's normal operational regime.

 

[illusion8]

I think the Americans do. Sometimes overtly and sometimes covertly. Given the present state of Indo-US relations, the overt component is likely to be greater. They are likely to have some vested interest in what happens on that border (not they are any less interested in the other border, but never mind that). Even they have a sharp eye on the proceedings there in the North.

Apart from that; the news report being quoted and discusssed here is also related to what knowledge and skill-sets that American Aviators can gain through interaction with Indian Aviators in conditions that are not part of the USAF's normal operational regime.

The other border is not a concern for them, they are particularly interested in this one - going by the recent briefing that they got about the troop placements, also where would they employ the high altitude flight training if not in a specific region?

What I am interested is the reason in the pattern of almost an all American platform at this border, gives them ample reason to move around there.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The other border is not a concern for them, they are particularly interested in this one - going by the recent briefing that they got about the troop placements, also where would they employ the high altitude flight training if not in a specific region?

What I am interested is the reason in the pattern of almost an all American platform at this border, gives them ample reason to move around there.

The other border has always been a Point of Interest for them. The covert factor also is larger.
Now on this side (or any other side); if you think that they will be (allowed to) move around freely......... No.
The briefing(s) is a matter of mutual interest. Just as any Joint Exercises will be.
But NO carte-blanche; everything will be calibrated and cotrolled.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The way i see it Yanks will gain the most not us
Though these kind of relationships are good

Yes; one could say that.
But India has nothing to lose; rather something to gain also.

 

[Manindra]

The way i see it Yanks will gain the most not us
Though these kind of relationships are good

They are developer & experience user of this jet. We have nothing to loose except gains. This is not wise that we didn't hold exercise because our partner gain more.

 

[nair]

What is this exchange means?.... Exchanging the aircrafts? or Exchanging the pilots or Exchanging both????

 

[illusion8]

The other border has always been a Point of Interest for them. The covert factor also is larger.

You are talking about our Eastern border? if so then how and why?

Now on this side (or any other side); if you think that they will be (allowed to) move around freely......... No.
The briefing(s) is a matter of mutual interest. Just as any Joint Exercises will be.
But NO carte-blanche; everything will be calibrated and cotrolled.

Of course it will be...no free run here - but the engagement will surely be there...is what's intriguing. The precise reason for it is intriguing too.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

You are talking about our Eastern border? if so then how and why?



Of course it will be...no free run here - but the engagement will surely be there...is what's intriguing. The precise reason for it is intriguing too.

No. The Western Border, that is where the long running Action Movie is.

 

[illusion8]

No. The Western Border, that is where the long running Action Movie is.

why? I don't see any interest there - pls elaborate.

The new Chinese constructions??

 

[Capt.Popeye]

why? I don't see any interest there - pls elaborate.

The new Chinese constructions??

Potential new flash points have been a matter of interest for a long time (over 6 decades).
While after 9/11, it has been the "continuing export of Non State Actors across the border". Earlier the general attitude used to be: its your problem, it does'nt affect us. Now its: its your problem, it can become ours too. Because they've woken up to the menace of the "Hydra-Headed Monster". Now America is not a target only in continental USA, but all over the world. It has seen the 'clear and present danger' to itself too.

Different kind of threat, different threat perception. The other area is a concern really to the US, not a threat.

 

[Tshering22]

I think the Americans do. Sometimes overtly and sometimes covertly. Given the present state of Indo-US relations, the overt component is likely to be greater. They are likely to have some vested interest in what happens on that border (not they are any less interested in the other border, but never mind that). Even they have a sharp eye on the proceedings there in the North.

Apart from that; the news report being quoted and discusssed here is also related to what knowledge and skill-sets that American Aviators can gain through interaction with Indian Aviators in conditions that are not part of the USAF's normal operational regime.

I agree.

For example, operating at Himalayan altitudes has always been a weakness for western militaries, while only we, the Chinese and the Pakistanis are the only countries on this planet with procedures to operate and engage in combat in such situations.

I particularly remember that instance when Soviets were mighty impressed about how IAF had used AN-12s as converted bombers through the usual 'jugaad' and used it very effectively. Despite being the manufacturers, they hadn't even thought of it in their wildest dreams.

So yeah US can gain a lot.

But as of now, our interests with Americans converge by and large and we should encourage these engagements at par levels.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I agree.

For example, operating at Himalayan altitudes has always been a weakness for western militaries, while only we, the Chinese and the Pakistanis are the only countries on this planet with procedures to operate and engage in combat in such situations.

I particularly remember that instance when Soviets were mighty impressed about how IAF had used AN-12s as converted bombers through the usual 'jugaad' and used it very effectively. Despite being the manufacturers, they hadn't even thought of it in their wildest dreams.

So yeah US can gain a lot.

But as of now, our interests with Americans converge by and large and we should encourage these engagements at par levels.

Just about the An-12s being used as Bombers; that experiment was pretty much a 'flop-show' (in military terms) apart from creating a big noisy shindig. One of the IAF transport pilots (as well as the Captain of the other An-12) who actually was tasked to carry it out has written very well about that whole project. Since it was carried out where a major infantry thrust was on and since it was carried out at night; all it did was to scare the daylights out of some guys on the ground.

Militarily it had nearly zero-value apart from that, since it did not have the slightest semblance of any accuracy. Apart from that it was a hazard to the An-12s themselves, since the iron bombs had to be armed by hand and then manually pushed out by the Loadmasters over the roller tracks. Till they left the aircraft's ramp, anything could've happened.
Plus the risk associated with the bombs potentially moving within the aircraft fuselage because of any lateral movement of the aircraft itself. The pilots of both aircraft were rather relieved to come off without a hitch. Fortunately it was only one mission in the Changa Manga sector IIRC.

On the other side; the PAF did a similar "one-off" exercise with the C-130, and very likely with similar results for similar reasons. Maybe @Oscar can shed more light about that. Transports are pretty much useless for "manual roll-off" methods of bombing.
C-47 Dakotas had been used earlier; but with much smaller bombs, or with some deployment chutes/slides installed. That was better in some respects.

 

[SQ8]

On the other side; the PAF did a similar "one-off" exercise with the C-130, and very likely with similar results for similar reasons. Maybe @Oscar can shed more light about that. Transports are pretty much useless for "manual roll-off" methods of bombing.

The PAF did that more than once, during both 65 and 71. I am not sure what bombs the IAF used but the PAF used the smaller bombs left over from an old stock or something. Suffice to say that those things were in crates by the twenties and they did cover a large area when rolled off. Not sure if they actually caused any damage but some 80-100 tiny explosions going off in unison definitely had some psychological effect.