US holds the Indo-Pak line of control

[Developereo]

My initial premise was that Pakistan is far behind India in CNP. And the gap between India and Pakistan is growing instead of reducing.

I don't dispute that but I don't think that's the point of the original article.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

US wants India and China.to fight. Why?
Because India has the military to be able to damage China and the economy to sustain the fight.
And why does India have that military and economy? Because India has built up its economy and is still building this up. That is our power. If we were a moribund country like we were till the late 80's, no country would expect us to be capable.

Today, India is able to swing the US to support India on some issues.
Swing China to support us on some issues.
Swing Russia to support us on some issues.

But whether India and China fight each other or not is our decision.
Regardless of what grandstanding you read in ToI, India and China have a very good relationship.
Both are nations have competent authorities. Both our nations are laser like focused on building our economy and people. Both acutely realize that war is simply not an option for us.

Hmm.. You have the military might to hold off china? Lmao .. Yes it's good for USA to use India for her benefits to contain worlds fastest growing economy..

Russia.. Again Russia can't do jack if USA wanted to do anything.. There are a zillion examples out there to prove the fact..

All the so called achievement you counted... NSG waiver etc .. And what happened when Pak got it from China? Didn't see USA do anything about tht..

Iranian oil.. Yes didn't u downgrade the imports.. Pull out of the IPI project?.. Saw you oppose Iran at the UN..?

Which issue can you swing the Chinese on? They regularly send their troops in your territory?

You talk off the japs.. Have you recently heard the news coming from the region? The statements,acts or announcements? What next Vietnam supports you? Lmao..

No doubt indian economy is booming but do take a look at the ground realities .. You talk off AID .. Yes we get aid.. But we also let them use our ports,airways for the shit hitting the fan in Afghanistan.. What abt India? In recent years you have received more aid than whole of South Asia combined...


You are relevant or important to USA just coz of china.. They will use you against them for their benefit... Thts the reality.

 

[Contrarian]

I think the Indian posters are getting side-tracked from the main theme of this article.

The core issue is that the US strategy consists of promoting India and weakening Pakistan.

Everything else is irrelevant to that core issue. Whether India actually fights China or not is irrelevant. What kind of relationship India has with other countries is irrelevant.

In other words, whether the Americans are right or delusional is irrelevant. What matters is that they are pursuing this policy at the moment, and how Pakistan should handle that American plan (or delusion if you want)..

The article claims that.
Whether its true or not is speculation.

I disagree with the article. US is the single biggest benefactor of Pakistan giving billions of dollars of aid to Pakistan. This money alone has been responsible for Pakistan to never have to make the bread vs guns debate that India has always had to struggle with.

US still continues to pump money in Pakistan. This money allows Pakistan to keep competing with India.
So how can the author legitimately claim that US wants Pakistan to be weak.

 

[airuah]

Yes "grapes are sour anyways"

If only Pakistan was a grape for India to even consider

 

[trident2010]

Apart from larger geopolitical goals, the other thing which is making India more favorable is it economy, democracy and secularism. Until India is walking on these lines and try its best to maintain it, it will get the favours from the world.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The article claims that.
Whether its true or not is speculation.

I disagree with the article. US is the single biggest benefactor of Pakistan giving billions of dollars of aid to Pakistan. This money alone has been responsible for Pakistan to never have to make the bread vs guns debate that India has always had to struggle with.

US still continues to pump money in Pakistan. This money allows Pakistan to keep competing with India.
So how can the author legitimately claim that US wants Pakistan to be weak.

Again misconceptions,assumptions n generalisation at work..

 

[Contrarian]

Desert Fighter. Take a moment to read my replies calmly instead of acting like a fan boi.

Hmm.. You have the military might to hold off china? Lmao .. Yes it's good for USA to use India for her benefits to contain worlds fastest growing economy..

Economy cannot be contained by anyone. Most of the economy is run by private enterprises to who where profit and safety of investment is maximum.
India can however militarily fight China. That would cause ruin for both our nations if escalated. This is what US would like.

Russia.. Again Russia can't do jack if USA wanted to do anything.. There are a zillion examples out there to prove the fact..

All the so called achievement you counted... NSG waiver etc .. And what happened when Pak got it from China? Didn't see USA do anything about tht..

Again. Please know your facts before you talk.
Pakistan has not got a waiver from China. Pakistan cannot get a waiver from China.
Pakistan can only purchase Chinese made reactors from China under grandfather clauses. Exactly like how India bought Russian reactors even before India signed the nuclear deal.

What the nuclear deal does is allow India to engage in nuclear trade with the world. India can now buy and sell nuclear reactors and equipments from any country in the world. Which is why we are now buying the latest technology - Euro reactors which China also purchases itself. India is severely short of Uranium. This pact has allowed India to buy Uranium from other countries while preserving domestic production for military uses. Earlier India to use very limited Uranium for both, thereby reducing Uranium availability for military purposes.

Pakistan cannot engage in nuclear trade with anyone. Pakistan can only buy reactors from China and not even the fuel. You would need an NSG exemption for that - which China cannot provide.

Iranian oil.. Yes didn't u downgrade the imports.. Pull out of the IPI project?.. Saw you oppose Iran at the UN..?

India reduced the imports. India was also one of the 4 countries that were given exemption from the sanctions.
The imports were reduced not because of US pressure, but because we had massive difficulties in paying Iran for the oil. Finally we worked out to pay them in INR kept in Indian banks. And Iran used that to purchase goods from India which we shipped. As soon as the mechanism worked out, oil transactions stabilized.

Which issue can you swing the Chinese on? They regularly send their troops in your territory?

On a lot of issues. India and China collaborate on many issues.

You talk off the japs.. Have you recently heard the news coming from the region? The statements,acts or announcements? What next Vietnam supports you? Lmao..

Friend I dont know what you are aware of.
But Japan is investing $90 billion in just one massive project till 2017. They are partners in that program which is meant to completely transform Indian infrastructure for manufacturing. $3.5 billion for that has already been transferred.

And they are starting studies over investment on another such project.

That apart they are investing in multiple projects spread out all over India. Everything from Delhi metro to Mumbai metro to Jaipur metro, etc, etc is atleast partially financed by JICA.

You really have no idea about how much Japan is investing in India to transform it.

No doubt indian economy is booming but do take a look at the ground realities .. You talk off AID .. Yes we get aid.. But we also let them use our ports,airways for the shit hitting the fan in Afghanistan.. What abt India? In recent years you have received more aid than whole of South Asia combined...

Again.
Please read in context.
India is also a massive country with over 1.2 billion people.
$3 billion in India is a drop in the ocean that will buy no influence to any country. But $2 billion aid in Pakistan would be a big amount able to buy a lot of influence.

Pakistan has received more economic aid per capita than any other nation barring Israel in the world. There is a reason why US has such enormous influence in Pakistan among all the countries in South Asia.

You are relevant or important to USA just NCOs of china.. They will use you against them for their benefit... Thts the reality.

You assume that Indians are foolish. You are free to your opinion. I have already listed out - we make no allies. That should give an indication to a smart mind.

 

[Developereo]

The article claims that.
Whether its true or not is speculation.

I disagree with the article. US is the single biggest benefactor of Pakistan giving billions of dollars of aid to Pakistan. This money alone has been responsible for Pakistan to never have to make the bread vs guns debate that India has always had to struggle with.

US still continues to pump money in Pakistan. This money allows Pakistan to keep competing with India.
So how can the author legitimately claim that US wants Pakistan to be weak.

About US aid, which is a pittance for the US economy, let me give you an analogy...

You can spend money to buy a pet. Now you can either raise that pet with love, or use it for target practice. So, just spending money on something doesn't say anything about your intentions.

Some of the US aid is genuinely humanitarian, but the rest of it is used to blackmail Pakistan (US sets benchmarks: Release Afridi or forego $33 million) or to bribe influential Pakistanis.

 

[acid rain]

I think you yourself have realized the stupidity of your claim now , thanks for saving my time , I dont need to refute your nonsense claim any more . You can carry on with your trolling now

Are you arguing that Pakistan and India hold the same global clout or near equal clout?

As for being a far bigger power, he came up with numerous instances which were all genuine...its time for you to come up with some examples of why you think Pakistan is equal to India....go ahead.

 

[Contrarian]

About US aid, which is a pittance for the US economy, let me give you an analogy...

You can spend money to buy a pet. Now you can either raise that pet with love, or use it for target practice. So, just spending money on something doesn't say anything about your intentions.

Some of the US aid is genuinely humanitarian, but the rest of it is used to blackmail Pakistan (US sets benchmarks: Release Afridi or forego $33 million) or to bribe influential Pakistanis.

How Pakistani's use the money is only a concern for Pakistani's.
But per capita, US gives more aid to Pakistan than any nation barring Israel.
Pakistan could have used that to transform itself into a global economic power, like Israel has. Pakistan chose not to. The money was used for military purchases and the rest was stolen.

Putting such amounts of money in Pakistan will naturally buy US a lot of influence in Pakistan. I think its unfair to critique them for it. In the example you have given - Pakistan has the option to forego the $33 million and keep Afridi. I dont think its blackmail at all.

No one has forced Pakistan to take that aid. Pakistan can refuse it and move on.

If US wanted Pakistan to weaken, they wont still be committed to massive aid funding. They would have clearly stopped that. That they havent gives a clue. Kerry-Luger bill was a clear commitment.

 

[Developereo]

How Pakistani's use the money is only a concern for Pakistani's.

That's not how it works.

The US knows exactly who is taking the aid and the aid keeps coming as long as those people do America's bidding.

Except for certain humanitarian programs run by NGOs, US "aid" money is a direct bribe to promote American interests. Since Pakistan lacks any independent institutions of accountability, it's a free-for-all.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Desert Fighter. Take a moment to read my replies calmly instead of acting like a fan boi.

Thts rich comin from a supa powa?

Economy cannot be contained by anyone. Most of the economy is run by private enterprises to who where profit and safety of investment is maximum.
India can however militarily fight China. That would cause ruin for both our nations if escalated. This is what US would like.

Have you seen the trade volume between USA n china?

Also do you think they want to ruin china.. Keeping china bogged down by using India as a pawn works in their favour quiet well ..

Again. Please know your facts before you talk.
Pakistan has not got a waiver from China. Pakistan cannot get a waiver from China.
Pakistan can only purchase Chinese made reactors from China under grandfather clauses. Exactly like how India bought Russian reactors even before India signed the nuclear deal.

Did I say something abt a waiver from china?

Have you read the NSG waiver guideline?


Another interesting Article:


Pakistan cocks a snook at India’s nuclear deal

What the nuclear deal does is allow India to engage in nuclear trade with the world. India can now buy and sell nuclear reactors and equipments from any country in the world. Which is why we are now buying the latest technology - Euro reactors which China also purchases itself. India is severely short of Uranium. This pact has allowed India to buy Uranium from other countries while preserving domestic production for military uses. Earlier India to use very limited Uranium for both, thereby reducing Uranium availability for military purposes.

Pakistan cannot engage in nuclear trade with anyone. Pakistan can only buy reactors from China and not even the fuel. You would need an NSG exemption for that - which China cannot provide.

Read above and ask yourself why?

India reduced the imports. India was also one of the 4 countries that were given exemption from the sanctions.
The imports were reduced not because of US pressure, but because we had massive difficulties in paying Iran for the oil. Finally we worked out to pay them in INR kept in Indian banks. And Iran used that to purchase goods from India which we shipped. As soon as the mechanism worked out, oil transactions stabilized.

Hahaha ... You are so gullible aren't you!

On a lot of issues. India and China collaborate on many issues.

So do Pak and INdia...

Doesn't change the facts?

friend I dont know what you are aware of.
But Japan is investing $90 billion in just one massive project till 2017. They are partners in that program which is meant to completely transform Indian infrastructure for manufacturing. $3.5 billion for that has already been transferred.

And they are starting studies over investment on another such project.

That apart they are investing in multiple projects spread out all over India. Everything from Delhi metro to Mumbai metro to Jaipur metro, etc, etc is atleast partially financed by JICA.

You really have no idea about how much Japan is investing in India to transform it.

Great strategic victory.. I must say..

Again.
Please read in context.
India is also a massive country with over 1.2 billion people.
$3 billion in India is a drop in the ocean that will buy no influence to any country. But $2 billion aid in Pakistan would be a big amount able to buy a lot of influence.

Pakistan has received more economic aid per capita than any other nation barring Israel in the world. There is a reason why US has such enormous influence in Pakistan among all the countries in South Asia.

Funny yet USA complains abt Evil Pakistan and it's double games n whatnot.. But still supports us.. Provides sophisticated weapon systems etc despite might India's protests n cries...



We must be really evil genius kinda beings..

you assume that Indians are foolish. You are free to your opinion. I have already listed out - we make no allies. That should give an indication to a smart mind.

 

[nangyale]

How Pakistani's use the money is only a concern for Pakistani's.
But per capita, US gives more aid to Pakistan than any nation barring Israel.
Pakistan could have used that to transform itself into a global economic power, like Israel has. Pakistan chose not to. The money was used for military purchases and the rest was stolen.

Putting such amounts of money in Pakistan will naturally buy US a lot of influence in Pakistan. I think its unfair to critique them for it. In the example you have given - Pakistan has the option to forego the $33 million and keep Afridi. I dont think its blackmail at all.

No one has forced Pakistan to take that aid. Pakistan can refuse it and move on.

If US wanted Pakistan to weaken, they wont still be committed to massive aid funding. They would have clearly stopped that. That they havent gives a clue. Kerry-Luger bill was a clear commitment.

I think you are reading too much in to all this USAID thing.
Your whole argument is that because US is giving AID to Pakistan they want to help Pakistan, or they have the best interest of Pakistan at heart. Well think again the US are not the do-gooders that you think they are. Read the following excerpts from TomDispatch.com.

One unsung SOCOM partner is U.S. AID, the government agency devoted to providing civilian foreign aid to countries around the world whose mandate includes the protection of human rights, the prevention of armed conflicts, the provision of humanitarian assistance, and the fostering of “good will abroad.” At a July 2013 conference, Beth Cole, the director of the Office of Civilian-Military Cooperation at U.S. AID, explained just how her agency was now quietly aiding the military’s secret military.

“In Yemen, for example, our mission director has SVTCs [secure video teleconferences] with SOCOM personnel on a regular basis now. That didn’t occur two years ago, three years ago, four years ago, five years ago,” Cole said, according to a transcript of the event. But that was only the start. “My office at U.S. AID supports SOF pre-deployment training in preparation for missions throughout the globe... I’m proud that my office and U.S. AID have been providing training support to several hundred Army, Navy, and Marine Special Operations personnel who have been regularly deploying to Afghanistan, and we will continue to do that.”

Cole noted that, in Afghanistan, U.S. AID personnel were sometimes working hand-in-hand on the Village Stability Operation initiative with Special Ops forces. In certain areas, she said, “we can dual-hat some of our field program officers as LNOs [liaison officers] in those Joint Special Operations task forces and be able to execute the development work that we need to do alongside of the Special Operations Forces.”

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Pakistan is no longer the absolutely equal counterweight to India that it used to be.

u mean for the time being.........In future we will be the dominant power. Its just a matter of time now ..

LOC is now a full fledged border.

So many Indians are still living in 60s when it comes to LOC.

Kashmir is now a 100% internal issue of India.

That is going to change and i can assure u that..........once we get this WOT done with last pending op in North Wazristan we will change our stance.

 

[Bombermanx1]

You have my friend hit the nail with a monkey wrench.

Well said.

Very well said

i say we been at each others throats for a long time fought 4 wars.Who benefited from it? western countries by selling arms to both of us,while our economies was ruined by wars, we forgot our development and we have major problems in our countries,Nobody likes war.If we keep doing this posturing in future too then only losers will be people of both countries.While west and others prosper due to our fight.It is time we finished this kashmir business, make LOC the border and then we can allocate our resources to development of our countries and people.