US holds the Indo-Pak line of control

[GURU DUTT]

and Let me be a little blunt too : India cant do anything to Pakistan , except for crying and lying

thing is we dont need to do anything drastick as all we have to do is keep building upon whatever we have managed to get so far and keep moving ahead as for your nation well...... jane do not worth talkin here

 

[Jade]

Relax mate ..
Drones are not carried out without approval
And you may be proud of the lady who violated American Law , doesnt make you any better

and Let me be a little blunt too : India cant do anything to Pakistan , except for crying and lying

We don't want to do anything to Pakistan. These are the fears that Zaid Hamid and his inks have created in Pakistanis' brains. Zaid Hamid may say lot of nonsense about 4th Gen urban warfare perpetuated by India and RAW. If you believe in him, I cannot help


As on drone, it is even more shameful for Pakistanis to allow a foreign country to violates your own sovereignty.

 

[M. Sarmad]

The point then becomes that India is supported by any country to get what it wants.

That exactly is the "delusion" which I was talking about ...
I am waiting for some logical detailed answer by you before bursting your bubble of "far bigger power" . Take your time and give it your best

 

[Developereo]

The whole point of the discussion in this thread is: Why is US supporting India but not Pakistan?

Actually, that list of "Indian" achievements was in response to this quote by a poster.

India is ahead of Pakistan and it's economy is in better shape mostly because of American largesse. The US wants a counter-weight to China and they think India will provide them with such.

and I pointed out that these "Indian" achievements would never have occurred without America's blessing.

Some happened with American support, some happened with Russian support, some with other countries support.

I would list out numerous cases where India has fought against US in WTO.

I was commenting on that specific list of accomplishments that you posted. Those could not have happened if the US vetoed them.

As for environmental, WTO and other votes, they are irrelevant. Even Micronesia gets to vote on these matters.

Without a UNSC seat, and without serious economic, military and diplomatic muscle, India's clout is a far cry from the established players, although I agree with the basic point that India's clout is rising.

P.S. You could have mentioned the Italian marines' episode as a sign of India's power. I would have accepted that.

 

[M. Sarmad]

We don't want to do anything to Pakistan

Yes "grapes are sour anyways"

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Some happened with American support, some happened with Russian support, some with other countries support.

I would list out numerous cases where India has fought against US in WTO.

1. India has been largest/biggest/most powerful critic of WTO policies and has had its way in changing the WTO treaties to allow Indian subsidies in agriculture among other issues.

2. India has been the most powerful - this time with China - voice in changing the environmental negotiations. All the countries - including Pakistan - were twisted to support the developed countries agenda.

In both these cases India directly fought US.

The point then becomes that India is supported by any country to get what it wants.
Supported by US for nuclear deal.
Supported by Japan for massive investment
Supported by China for environmental treaties

Not supported by anyone in WTO and yet still getting what India wants.

Do you get the point? Its that India guns after Indian interests. And India is able to secure those interests most of the times because of intrinsic power. Which is why other nations support India because they feel India would be useful to their interests.

It's all to contain china .. Without china in the equation would the Americans or even the japs give a didly squat abt India?

 

[Contrarian]

That exactly is the "delusion" which I was talking about ...
I am waiting for some logical detailed answer by you before bursting your bubble of "far bigger power" . Take your time and give it your best

I already have.
Feel free to disagree. In any case I think you are caught up in semantics of 'far bigger power' or 'bigger power'.

And in any case, you are adding nothing to the conversation.

 

[Jade]

Yes "grapes are sour anyways"

And apples are sweet...SO?

 

[acid rain]

Yes, it makes. It shows how influential India is as compared to Pakistan. Not that I am proud of that lady.

The way US violates Pak sovereignty with such impunity and ease( be it Drones or OBL episode), it amazes me how Pakistanis are bearing such shame for not one or two days but for 10 years.

Your country is projected by international community across the world as epicentre of Islamic terrorism, and a country that cannot live without aid. Now tell me what is so proud in that?

Let me a little blunt: If not for Pakistan nukes, Pakistan would have been none in this world.



The whole point of the discussion in this thread is: Why is US supporting India but not Pakistan?

Lets not divert from the actual topic here...the author is a Pakistani if I am not wrong so he views the geo politics of India and Pakistan from
a Pakistani prism. This he does because Pakistans policies are centred around India. Their Aghan policy is also a derivative of India's policy towards Afghanistan. It's Afghan policy is to deny India space in Afghanistan to avoid getting caught in a pincer hold from east and west. It also does not want an anti pakistani and a pro india govt in afghanistan.

The author views US strategic moves in the region with an india centric prism. So when the US talks about India's role in the region, pakistan naturally views it with an indo pak prism.

The difference here lies in the fact that india has other things on its plate like look east policy, trade with central asia, afghanistan, iran, africa, north pole, burma, maldives, indian ocean, south china sea, investments in south america etc etc.

Vis a vis pakistan, the author is right in saying that india wants trade to improve and tensions to decrease - but his assumption that this is being pushed by america to use india as a peg against china is wrong. The US might have those ideas, but India doesnt....we have other important things on our plate to take care of...so decreased tensions with pakistan will help us in doing that.

China very well knows that India will never work as a peg against it. We have our own interests and we are only concerned about that.

 

[Contrarian]

It's all to contain china .. Without china in the equation would the Americans or even the japs give a didly squat abt India?

US wants India and China.to fight. Why?
Because India has the military to be able to damage China and the economy to sustain the fight.
And why does India have that military and economy? Because India has built up its economy and is still building this up. That is our power. If we were a moribund country like we were till the late 80's, no country would expect us to be capable.

Today, India is able to swing the US to support India on some issues.
Swing China to support us on some issues.
Swing Russia to support us on some issues.

But whether India and China fight each other or not is our decision.
Regardless of what grandstanding you read in ToI, India and China have a very good relationship.
Both are nations have competent authorities. Both our nations are laser like focused on building our economy and people. Both acutely realize that war is simply not an option for us.

 

[BDforever]

the alliance should be SAARC+China+Russia+Iran+Afganistan+Myanmar+Thai land + Singapore+Malaysia+Indonesia

This alliance will be formidable force

 

[M. Sarmad]

Feel free to disagree. In any case I think you are caught up in semantics of 'far bigger power' or 'bigger power'

I think you yourself have realized the stupidity of your claim now , thanks for saving my time , I dont need to refute your nonsense claim any more . You can carry on with your trolling now

 

[Contrarian]

and I pointed out that these "Indian" achievements would never have occurred without America's blessing.

I was commenting on that specific list of accomplishments that you posted. Those could not have happened if the US vetoed them.

As for environmental, WTO and other votes, they are irrelevant. Even Micronesia gets to vote on these matters.

Without a UNSC seat, and without serious economic, military and diplomatic muscle, India's clout is a far cry from the established players, although I agree with the basic point that India's clout is rising.

P.S. You could have mentioned the Italian marines' episode as a sign of India's power. I would have accepted that.

The list I posted was just something off the top of my head. Its not any kind of comprehensive list.
But one can still draw an inference and a trend line of the effect that a rising CNP has on global relations.

China has already shown that to the world. India is starting to show it.

My initial premise was that Pakistan is far behind India in CNP. And the gap between India and Pakistan is growing instead of reducing.

 

[Developereo]

I think the Indian posters are getting side-tracked from the main theme of this article.

The core issue is that the US strategy consists of promoting India and weakening Pakistan.

Everything else is irrelevant to that core issue. Whether India actually fights China or not is irrelevant. What kind of relationship India has with other countries is irrelevant.

In other words, whether the Americans are right or delusional is irrelevant. What matters is that they are pursuing this policy at the moment, and how Pakistan should handle that American plan (or delusion if you want)..

 

[Contrarian]

I think you yourself have realized the stupidity of your claim now , thanks for saving my time , I dont need to refute your nonsense claim any more . You can carry on with your trolling now

Feel free to be happy and believe what you want. Its a free world.