US has backup plan if Pakistan shuts Shamsi base: officials

[53fd]

Do you not feel that the buck is being passed around ?

Good leadership is relative, in any case the PA calls the shots in Pak & from what I have seen on this forum over the years that I have been here is that the PA is adored by the masses. The PA has ruled the nation possibly longer than any one else.

Somewhere down the line it appears to an outsider that the people in Pak appear to lack assertiveness and have got used to attributing all their ills to someone else be it leadership , the US or Politicians but never their own selves.

It would be natural to ask what can the masses do by themselves ? Well , the answer is for the people of Pak to find they could take clues from what happened in E Europe, N Africa & so many other places. In India too at the height of her power Indira Gandhi who was the strongest PM India has ever had faced mass movement from Jayprakash narayan and even the imposition of emergency was resisted by people who did not belong to political parties. It does not always need a political party or a known leader. The Anna Hazare situation in India today is an example where mass movements can happen & make the Govt sit up & take notice of public sentiments.

The point I am trying to make is why do the people of Pakistan behave like doormats ? its the same stock who prior to 47 fought everything the Brits did contributing to independence of the sub continent . Is the fear of the PA more than that of the Brits ?

@ the topic , if Pak can do without US & its aid then what is PA waiting for ?

Pakistan does not want to adopt an isolationist policy, & wants to maintain its influence in the region. Pakistan doesn't need the US to economically support it, but it needs credibility in the world, as that is imperative for the 'brighter' future of the country. Losing credibility in the eyes of the whole world (i.e. Gaddafi in Libya) only produces disastrous consequences for the nation.

 

[third eye]

^^^ Despite the corrupt nature of the Pakistan Administration, I can't help but feel sorry for them sometimes. There is one group that says that Pakistan is overly subservient to the Taliban, & there is another group that says Pakistan is overly subservient to the US, & that Pakistan should root out the US from the region & stop being subservient to them. Such a headache for the Administration sometimes. There is no black & white situation in this, Pakistan must do whatever it can to secure its interests. Simple. All this talk by the Islamists about Islamabad being under US control is rubbish, when the US media & the US Administration claims the opposite to be true. Pakistan is not subservient to anyone, & is looking after its national interests.

Is it ? Is it in Pak national interest to nurture fundamentalists and allow the likes of OBL to live in the country.

What actions over the last few years have contributed to the nations national interests ?

 

[Awesome]

^^^ Despite the corrupt nature of the Pakistan Administration, I can't help but feel sorry for them sometimes. There is one group that says that Pakistan is overly subservient to the Taliban, & there is another group that says Pakistan is overly subservient to the US, & that Pakistan should root out the US from the region & stop being subservient to them. Such a headache for the Administration sometimes. There is no black & white situation in this, Pakistan must do whatever it can to secure its interests. Simple. All this talk by the Islamists about Islamabad being under US control is rubbish, when the US media & the US Administration claims the opposite to be true. Pakistan is not subservient to anyone, & is looking after its national interests.

The problem is fundamentally they are corrupt and the entire leadership be it government, opposition or the army's leadership. They are from the class of Pakistan where there is only one concept - Paisa phaink tamasha dekh (Throw some money and watch the show). They are subservient to the US fundamentally and only keep the Taliban around also out of some perceived benefit to themselves.

What we want out of them is to fight the US and the Taliban both. You cannot choose between them, they are both against Pakistan, only feigning friendship out of convenience.

This confusion of sorts is because Pakistan is now functioning as a colony not a country there will be Pockets aligned to this camp or that camp. The war of independence is required to be fought all over again.

 

[53fd]

The problem is fundamentally they are corrupt and the entire leadership be it government, opposition or the army's leadership. They are from the class of Pakistan where there is only one concept - Paisa phaink tamasha dekh (Throw some money and watch the show). They are subservient to the US fundamentally and only keep the Taliban around also out of some perceived benefit to themselves.

What we want out of them is to fight the US and the Taliban both. You cannot choose between them, they are both against Pakistan, only feigning friendship out of convenience.

This confusion of sorts is because Pakistan is now functioning as a colony not a country there will be Pockets aligned to this camp or that camp. The war of independence is required to be fought all over again.

How do you expect them to do that?

 

[third eye]

Pakistan does not want to adopt an isolationist policy, & wants to maintain its influence in the region. Pakistan doesn't need the US to economically support it, but it needs credibility in the world, as that is imperative for the 'brighter' future of the country. Losing credibility in the eyes of the whole world (i.e. Gaddafi in Libya) only produces disastrous consequences for the nation.

Is Af the only part of the ' region' Pak is alluding to ?

Isolationist has nothing to do with what Pak most feel need to do yet by doing what is does it is only isolating itself. If US is not needed what is stopping the nation to decide ?

Despite the chest thumping and rhetoric the answers are for all to see.

 

[53fd]

Is it ? Is it in Pak national interest to nurture fundamentalists and allow the likes of OBL to live in the country.

What actions over the last few years have contributed to the nations national interests ?

Having OBL in Pakistan was against Pakistan's national interests as Al-Qaeda has been responsible for a huge portion of the terrorism inside Pakistan. Not knowing OBL was in Pakistan was an intelligence failure, just like there was intelligence failure on the part of the CIA when the Arab terrorists who lived in the US carried out the 9/11 attacks.

Actions that have contributed to the nation's national interests:

1. Operation Rah-e-Nijaat (South Waziristan)
2. Operation Rah-e-Rast (Swat)
3. ISI confronting with the CIA over covert ops, asking it to reduce its presence inside Pakistan
4. ISI asking the CIA to vacate Shamsi airbase
5. CIA shifting the supply lines to Afghanistan

Now tell me what successes the US & NATO Forces have had inside Afghanistan from 2001-2011?

 

[53fd]

Is Af the only part of the ' region' Pak is alluding to ?

Isolationist has nothing to do with what Pak most feel need to do yet by doing what is does it is only isolating itself. If US is not needed what is stopping the nation to decide ?

Despite the chest thumping and rhetoric the answers are for all to see.

You're mistaken if you think Pakistan is isolating itself by continuing to be in the WOT, in fact, it is the USA that has been badly isolated in the region. There is no one in the region that trusts the US. Why should Pakistan revert to what Gaddafi did in Libya? Pakistan is still one of the most important nations in the region, & it is anything but isolated from the world. In fact, Pakistan is further enhancing its partnerships with countries like China, Russia, Sri Lanka, Iran & others in the aftermath of the OBL raid. There is no chest thumping here, why should Pakistan adopt an isolationist policy & suffer from it?

 

[third eye]

Having OBL in Pakistan was against Pakistan's national interests as Al-Qaeda has been responsible for a huge portion of the terrorism inside Pakistan. Not knowing OBL was in Pakistan was an intelligence failure, just like there was intelligence failure on the part of the CIA when the Arab terrorists who lived in the US carried out the 9/11 attacks.

Actions that have contributed to the nation's national interests:

1. Operation Rah-e-Nijaat (South Waziristan)
2. Operation Rah-e-Rast (Swat)
3. ISI confronting with the CIA over covert ops, asking it to reduce its presence inside Pakistan
4. ISI asking the CIA to vacate Shamsi airbase
5. CIA shifting the supply lines to Afghanistan

Now tell me what successes the US & NATO Forces have had inside Afghanistan from 2001-2011?

Thats the point I was trying to make in post #13.

US & NATO in Af are operating in another country success would be great and failure though unfortunate would not impact them back home beyond a point.

Pak does not have that luxury - things are happening inside it not in a distant country across the seas, therefore just coz things do / did / may not succeed in Af is not justification for complacency .

Do you really feel that points 1 to 5 are contributors to national interest ? National interests are contributed to by actions larger those listed.

 

[Awesome]

How do you expect them to do that?

Stand up and say I am against you. Try. I'm not saying we have to succeed in it. But just because you can't succeed in doing the right thing, you don't have to start doing to the wrong thing.

If they were trying and failing I wouldn't be booing my own government, I would be booing the others. But at this juncture we are the ones with the Khota Sikkay.

 

[Awesome]

The bigger idiot is the US, that even deals with our corrupt leadership. If there were honest people in Pakistan, along with kicking the US out, they would definitely kick the Taliban out too.

We have trash of all kinds in the country. It needs to be expunged. I hope our Dharna squad led by IK targets Shamsi base next, we will have to do what the people whose job it is to do this are too afraid to do.

 

[53fd]

Thats the point I was trying to make in post #13.

US & NATO in Af are operating in another country success would be great and failure though unfortunate would not impact them back home beyond a point.

Pak does not have that luxury - things are happening inside it not in a distant country across the seas, therefore just coz things do / did / may not succeed in Af is not justification for complacency .

Do you really feel that points 1 to 5 are contributors to national interest ? National interests are contributed to by actions larger those listed.

These are the actions related to the WOT in the national interest of Pakistan. There have been plenty of other non-WOT actions that have been in the interest of Pakistan, such as infrastructure development projects, gas pipeline agreement with Iran, electricity generation projects with China, enhanced ties with neighbors in the region etc.

 

[53fd]

Stand up and say I am against you. Try. I'm not saying we have to succeed in it. But just because you can't succeed in doing the right thing, you don't have to start doing to the wrong thing.

If they were trying and failing I wouldn't be booing my own government, I would be booing the others. But at this juncture we are the ones with the Khota Sikkay.

Again, Pakistan does not say things out in the open, but behind the scenes, the ISI has been disbanding the CIA network inside Pakistan, forcing the CIA to use Afghanistan supply lines than Pakistan, as well as a lot of other things. Just because they don't give out "ear-candy" (my own terminology) to the (easily influenced) masses like Imran Khan does doesn't mean they aren't working behind the scenes to secure the national interests of Pakistan. Imran Khan appeals to the people that are easily influenced by the "ear candy" he gives to them, not realizing that words are meaningless without action. The first action he has implemented is joining hands with the MQM, despite slandering them for all this time.

Pakistan cannot simply detach itself from the region, it is Afghanistan's neighbor that has a full scale WOT going on, & an open border with them on top of that. Pakistan cannot simply disassociate itself from Afghanistan, it will always be its neighbor, & it has to deal with the situation. Some of the decisions they make might be perplexing to everyone, they might not always be right either, but they are aimed at securing the national interests of Pakistan, not being subservient to anyone.