US had stopped Jordan from sending jets to Pakistan in 1971 war

[FaujHistorian]

well im an indian but i feel ad when pakistanies abuse indians for there tolrence but ignoare there very own ummah nations doing much much worse to them but in the end when every thing fails dont hesitste to raise bogey of ummah and jihad to get things right and think being a muslim is the hieght of goodness and all that blah blah but abuse and degrade indians when it is not even required

peace

I suggest do not listen to Islamists.

Thank you

 

[GURU DUTT]

I suggest do not listen to Islamists.

Thank you

but bhi cant help it when ever someone abuses my nation and my people for no reason but you are right but thing is also you should never ignoare the potential threat ... i hope you dontmind

 

[FaujHistorian]

but bhi cant help it when ever someone abuses my nation and my people for no reason but you are right but thing is also you should never ignoare the potential threat ... i hope you dontmind

someone spits at moon, you think moon needs a defense?

 

[Peshwa]

Why do you spread ignorance bhai.

Muslims in the Hindu Majority Provinces (HMP) were supposed to stay in India
Muslims in the Muslim Majority Provinces (MMPs) wre supposed to be in Pakistan.

--- This is all true with few exceptions (like Partition of Punjab etc.)


However many Muslims from Bihar like our community from Bihar did migrate to E. and W. Pakistan thanks to secured job quota etc.


There was no "choosing" woozing between secular vs. religious mumbo jumbo the way you put it.

please quit typing here the 3rd grade government history book stuff.




I wonder why you would do matam in the name of Islamism.

You really an Indian. Right?



Obviously personal yaar.

Legal immigration from Bihar/UP to Paksitan is not open. So many of them are stuck there even when they want to move to Pakistan for better opporunities.

They look at the fb pictures of our homes and cars and they want to have the same, even though the Karachi is not well known for stability and peace. But the wealth is still there. People do change new model cars every year and live in mansions. That is totally not possible for a lower/Middle class Muslim in Bihar and UP>


I don't want to start Pak-Ind flame war, just sharing personal experience.

peace

It's late here in the US and I do want to reply to your post and will do so after a good nights sleep...can't keep my eyes open at this point...till we meet again sir

 

[Contrarian]

I am not at all doubting the intentions of the Soviets, just their resolve. They could never face the US in any such adventurism and they almost always backed down, especially when they faced the Americans alone. Cuban Missile Crisis is just 1 example.

Again, you and I cannot question their resolve at this juncture.
The Soviets were clear on one thing - no super power would intervene in the Indo-Pak war. If USA intervenes on behalf of Pakistan, USSR fleet would attack US fleet directly.

And it is kind of comical to even consider that the IA could mount assaults on Bangladesh that was being defended by the 7th Fleet. The idea alone would have renewed the resolve in Pakistan to continue to fight with the Mukti Bahini and IA.

There really was nothing left friend. Regardless of any amount of resolve, PA was surrounded on all sides by IA. It doesnt matter what their resolve was.

USSR clearly stated that any physical USN intervention in the scenario would be retaliated with a strike on USN fleet.

India had just signed a Treaty with USSR a few months before. It stated that any attack on either of the two would be construed as an attack on both of them.

The US government decided that they were not bluffing and took a rational call that they would not risk their own men and women for Pakistan. You also have to understand that the US Government was under pressure to stop Pakistan's repression in East Pakistan. The Blood telegram sent by US Ambassador in Pakistan to White House also put pressure on them.

They factored all the issues and decided that its best to not intervene. What you are asking now is that US should have fought Pakistan's war, sacrificed its men for Pakistan in a situation when Pakistan was carrying out repression on the local population.

They must have had their reasons, whatever be the case. Even China would have engaged the Indians had the US initiated such a process. Would the Soviets have taken on both China and US for India???

Think about it.

As a matter of fact US did ask China to start sabre rattling.
The thing is , India factored China before the war began.
Indira Gandhi wanted to invade East Pakistan as early as in Summers/Rainy Season.
It was General Manekshaw who changed the plans. He postponed the invasion to Winters for 2 reasons. He explained both clearly to Indira Gandhi. All these facts are documented.

1. The winters would mean that all the passes in the North would get completely blocked off. That means China would not be able to intervene in any meaningful way. The geography of Indo-China border is that Himalayas can only be crossed when the passes are open.

2. During monsoons, the Rivers in BD become massive marshes(BD is like a delta), that would quadruple the difficulties Indian Army would face while invading. This would not be the case in Winters.

These were the two main reasons IA invaded as late as it did.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yeah...we see where are Muslims butchered everyday. Like Ahmedis, Shias, Hazaras are safe in Pakistan.

Hmm.. Equating terrorism etc to u mentality .. Tell us what happened Just a month ago in muzafarnagar,what's happenin in iok? The situation of ur low castes etc? We have lost less people since 2002 wot than India lost in the last 4 days thanks to the issues u push under the rug..

Lets generalize that to all Indians, not only Muslims in India only.

These r hard facts not generlizations...

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Are you saying Jordan's F104's never came to Pakistan? @Capt.Popeye?

They did as I have documented above, in my posts. Just as I showed all the 'machinations' that led to the transfer. And one of the RJAF F-104As even became a casualty in the conflict, as has been well documented.

wow..... just wow, how low can someone stoop

Family upbringing has to surface; one way or another.......

 

[Gautam]

Funny millions of Indians die every year ... Killing over 200 million ppl since 1947... Karma? U believe in that right.

I dont watch Pakistani news channels. So I am not aware of such Conspiracy Theories. Sorry Bro.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I dont watch Pakistani news channels. So I am not aware of such Conspiracy Theories. Sorry Bro.

Lmao thanks for defining ur retarded media..



And these stats r frm western sources n ur own research institutes.. Heck 5000 kids die (not counting other ...) of starvation alone.. So spare me the sermons.

 

[Gautam]

Lmao thanks for defining ur retarded media..



And these stats r frm western sources n ur own research institutes.. Heck 5000 kids die (not counting other ...) of starvation alone.. So spare me the sermons.

How did that define our media retarted?


Also, how does what we are talking about has anything to do with the post you quoted?

 

[illusion8]

They did as I have documented above, in my posts. Just as I showed all the 'machinations' that led to the transfer. And one of the RJAF F-104As even became a casualty in the conflict, as has been well documented.



Family upbringing has to surface; one way or another.......

Our friend fauj here does not believe it happened @FaujHistorian.

 

[Mav3rick]

Again, you and I cannot question their resolve at this juncture.
The Soviets were clear on one thing - no super power would intervene in the Indo-Pak war. If USA intervenes on behalf of Pakistan, USSR fleet would attack US fleet directly.

History is judge to resolves of lots of nations, men and countries. USSR would never have dared attack the 7th Fleet, no way whatsoever, especially not for India.

There really was nothing left friend. Regardless of any amount of resolve, PA was surrounded on all sides by IA. It doesnt matter what their resolve was.

USSR clearly stated that any physical USN intervention in the scenario would be retaliated with a strike on USN fleet.

India had just signed a Treaty with USSR a few months before. It stated that any attack on either of the two would be construed as an attack on both of them.

To start off, PA could have handled India without much ado. The real issue was internal unrest, the real threat was always Mukti Bahini, infiltrators and traitors amongst the ranks.

Again, the USSR could never engage the US in any of their earlier deadlocks either and always backed down unilaterally from engagements.

Pakistan had signed a treaty with the US much before the USSR signed any treaty with India. The US could have used that treaty against India as India had crossed the international border and because India was breaking international LAW. Even the treaties of CENTO and SEATO could have been invoked upon direct involvement of the USSR upon which the USSR would have had to face a number of super powers.

The US government decided that they were not bluffing and took a rational call that they would not risk their own men and women for Pakistan. You also have to understand that the US Government was under pressure to stop Pakistan's repression in East Pakistan. The Blood telegram sent by US Ambassador in Pakistan to White House also put pressure on them.

They factored all the issues and decided that its best to not intervene. What you are asking now is that US should have fought Pakistan's war, sacrificed its men for Pakistan in a situation when Pakistan was carrying out repression on the local population.

The word 'repression' and alike are highly debatable especially when there was unrest being fuelled by India. India was training, arming and financing Mukti Bahini, just like they are doing with TTP and BLA etc. I am sure that Pakistan Army may have been heavy handed.....but how else do you crush a foreign financed and doctored rebellion?

Furthermore, the US 'sacrificed' a massive number of her citizens in Vietnam, what was that about? They were the world's strongest super power, they had the backing of many other super powers and they had the responsibility to come to the aid of their ally!

As a matter of fact US did ask China to start sabre rattling.
The thing is , India factored China before the war began.
Indira Gandhi wanted to invade East Pakistan as early as in Summers/Rainy Season.
It was General Manekshaw who changed the plans. He postponed the invasion to Winters for 2 reasons. He explained both clearly to Indira Gandhi. All these facts are documented.

1. The winters would mean that all the passes in the North would get completely blocked off. That means China would not be able to intervene in any meaningful way. The geography of Indo-China border is that Himalayas can only be crossed when the passes are open.

2. During monsoons, the Rivers in BD become massive marshes(BD is like a delta), that would quadruple the difficulties Indian Army would face while invading. This would not be the case in Winters.

These were the two main reasons IA invaded as late as it did.

Winter would have been a fact that could have made it harder for the Chinese Army to intervene directly, however it could not make it impossible. Thing is, even this side had no real intention to hold on to Bangladesh as otherwise they would have prolonged the war with survival on the Bangladeshi front and full scale war at this side, this would have ensured a status quo and it would have meant many other countries eventually jumping in. I guess Bangladesh was more of a liability in the minds of our politicians/leaders.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Our friend fauj here does not believe it happened @FaujHistorian.

What any person chooses to believe in; is his/her own choice.
What the facts are; is a different matter.

 

[farhan_9909]

Bangladesh was bound to be seperated be it in 71 or 1-2 decades later.

The partition was done wrong,

Bangladesh from start should had become a New country

 

[GURU DUTT]

Bangladesh was bound to be seperated be it in 71 or 1-2 decades later.

The partition was done wrong,

Bangladesh from start should had become a New country

thats the most sensible post i had seen on this thread by a pksiatnai member so far ...Hats off to you brother