US F-16's to Pak come with a 'no use against India in future' rider

[graphican]

No one can stop Pakistan in the middle of a war.

This aspect has been discussed and questions have been raised if equipment bought from America carries switches which Americans control through satellites etc and no one, not even senior members denied possibility of such purposefully installed bugs which can incapacitate equipment when we need that the most. So they probably have the capacity to harm our interests if they want so.

Second, I do not believe PAF could sign such EULA that stops it using these birds against India. We are not threatened by Israel, Germany or Afghanistan against whom we would need these birds. We have one country that is a consistent threat to our security and it is called India. If these weapons would not protect us against Indian aggressions or wars against it, why would we go and pay huge prices for them?

Think why are we getting 500 BVRs AAMs to be used with F-16s? If Americans had issues that these birds would not be used against India, those BVRs wouldn't have been there.

Third, controlling India is American Dream as its not coming to India for the wellbeing of India, rather it wants to empower it to counter China. In the balance of power, you do-not just empower your allies, but you also keep enemies of your allies on board and keep them empowering so that the powerful ally wouldn't start bulling. I cannot explain that to any further detail but if somebody is aware of these principles, he would agree that empowering Pakistan and keeping its strength to a certain level is an American need.. and if F-16s wouldn't give us needed strength against India what else will?

Based on the points mentioned above, its illogical to think that F-16s have any agreement that they cannot be used against India. I might buy that such agreement is there that Pakistan wouldn't use to attack India "first" but in case of aggression from India we cannot use them is nothing but a stretch of child's imagination.

 

[trident2010]

In June 2005, Pakistan requested the foreign military sale (FMS) of 36 F-16C/D block 50/52 aircraft. In June 2006, the Pentagon notified congress of its intention to agree the sale and Lockheed Martin was awarded a contract for 12 F-16C and six F-16D block 52 aircraft in December 2006. The aircraft will be armed with AMRAAM and Sidewinder missiles and the Sniper targeting pod. The planned order of the second 18 aircraft has been cancelled

may be obama making fool of indians i have a point if they have gave us F 16 for talibans onlt not for indians than do taliban have any airforce no they dont have pakistan using F 16 for ground targets well than why they have sold us with these F 16 air to air missiles if taliban dont have any airforce its for india from usa with love

Yeh .. US trying to keep both parties happy. I hope now someone else does not put this topic on new thread ..

 

[trident2010]

I might buy that such agreement is there that Pakistan wouldn't use to attack India "first" but in case of aggression from India we cannot use them is nothing but a stretch of child's imagination.

Yes. It seems like it. The hardware bought by US could not be use for attack first. If this is the case than it is very much benificial for India since apart from F-16, and other US hardware, pakistan's first strike won't be very much effective. I am hopeful that India won't strike pakistan first barring terrorist camps (in case of other major attack on Indian soil from these camps).

I think pakistan should look for other vendor for its defence needs, US is too restrictive.

 

[Tejas-MkII]

Can any experts here explain, if US wanted to enforce such limitations in its export aircraft how can it be achieved?

a) Kill Switch?

b) Altitude restrictions?

c) Radar Range?

d) Geographical perimeters hard coded?

if b,c and d are enforced how will it affect the aircraft's BVR weaponry???

I personally don't believe a "kill switch" can exist that can be operated remotely, but B,C and D can be easy accomplished through hardware or software changes.

However IMO the entire article here probably talks about a "soft switch" ie if you used it against country "A" then we will stop giving you any equipment ..for which Pak can say "oops we forgot about that"!!!

Yes if the above article is true then probably they are talking about "soft switch" ,just like they did to F-14 of Iran.

And without spares and logistics,as these are in the hands of US, it will be very tough to operate F-16 in war.

 

[Super Falcon]

well if it is for talibans than why they are givinf amram talibans dont have any jets to be killed with amraams americans know it too but making fool of india

 

[M8R]

AMRAAM's are Injun specific.

 

[Super Falcon]

what the hell is injun man

 

[graphican]

Yes. It seems like it. The hardware bought by US could not be use for attack first. If this is the case than it is very much benificial for India since apart from F-16, and other US hardware, pakistan's first strike won't be very much effective. I am hopeful that India won't strike pakistan first barring terrorist camps (in case of other major attack on Indian soil from these camps).

I think pakistan should look for other vendor for its defence needs, US is too restrictive.

One needs to be crazy to think Pakistan would attack India "first" without any fondling on part of India. Even if Indian Jets cross the barrier of last 5 kilometers of its own air-space, that would be considered an aggression so watch your steps. Even if "No first attack" EULA is there which is still doubted, we wouldn't wait for bullets to penetrate through us in order to "know" you are attacking.

Ball of peace or war is in India's court and Indian decission will bring this region to a Nuclear war if ever.

 

[Trisonics]

well if it is for talibans than why they are givinf amram talibans dont have any jets to be killed with amraams americans know it too but making fool of india

pardon my naivety, but there can be specific changes to the radar, altitude or even geographic restrictions made to the plane which can hinder the way the BVR missiles work. I'm no expert, hence my previous question... in short the amraams may not be as deadly!

 

[M8R]

Yeah - PAF is dumb - It won't test those AMRAAM's before it goes to war.You will only believe it when you see this flying over INdia

 

[Imran Khan]

its i million times discussed here . you guys thing we buy them for proud or showcase?

 

[Storm Force]

That fleet of F16 x 18 planes

Will have to fly through 230 of these first to get into Indian Air space
http://resboiu.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/su-30mki.jpg

 

[trident2010]

Yup .. and these

 

[Dazzler]

Seems like many Indian posters are loosing sleep over 18 blk 52. I wonder what would happen when FC-20 comes, a heart attack or deep depression or worse?....

 

[aliyusuf]

Well if there is such a provision or switch that has been set in place within these F-16s ... which can be utilized to restrict or degrade the performance of the Radar or AMRAAM while being used against Indian assets, then that would suggest the Americans are willingly safeguarding Indian interests and totally on the side of the Indians ... so if we accept that as the argument, then why ask for assurances from Pakistan for not using it against India? Why not just keep mum about it and let Pakistan suffer when the time comes? That would help India even more ... and if that is what the Americans really want in the first place.

Actually the point our erstwhile Indian members of this forum are missing is that this whole deal has been made b/w the US & Pakistan to keep their relationship going from bad to worse and as an attempt to bolster Pakistan's trust for the US that they are not totally compromising them for the Indians and in this way they can keep their control over Pakistan for it's support on the WOT. The US does not want Pakistan to become totally alienated to it and lose it over to China completely.

Also 32 new Block-52s & 45 MLU's are not going to tip the scale in Pakistan's favor. Not by a long shot yet. But it will help Pakistan to feel less insecure in the face of a conventional conflict with India and it will be less keen to resort to nukes if it feels threatened.

So I suggest we should keep our discussions within logic and in the proper perspective.