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US F-16's to Pak come with a 'no use against India in future' rider

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For how long Pakistan will blackmail USA to help maintain its conventional weapon balance against India.

How on earth only F-16 or lost credible conventional deterrence, which you have already lost though, will decide if Pakistan has to go for nuclear war straight away against India. Everyone but not you and your admirer knows the nuclear doctrine of Pakistan.

It is hard to digest for a Pakistani that Pakistani teeth are churned out by USA who wants to dictate south Asian security policies.

USA knows that today Pakistan is a mediocre military state who can not win a decisive war over Kashmir by both conventional and non conventional means against India but will certainly act proxy for china.

Furthermore USA has foreseeability to predict and observe that Pakistan is over ambitious for its military aspiration cause India will never offend Pakistan's territories period.

No one is going to buy this time that India is Pakistan's enemy like they used to buy it before from Pakistan. The equations are changed and F16 saga is mere an Indicator for Pakistan to understand USA's sensitivities for WOT and to be honest about where she stands in this grand Asian game.

Typically for Pakistan it will take some time to adjust, however Pakistan can try its luck every where specially with china (Which Americans know very well) and is free to invest its hard earn money to gain parity against India for a would be head on war which will never occur.

Everyone is under pressure in this region but i am happy that war mongering Pakistan (who can bully of nuclear war on water, Kargil if India crosses LOC, and now F-16) is more effected and running around for other options.

Wow, someone seems to be having a hell of a day being delusional.

War mongering Pakistan ?? Seriously you need to look at the attitude of your own country's politicians, media and generals before pointing at us to be war mongers.

And how US is pimping India, it seems India is more of a proxy for US then Pakistan to be one for China, as China has no fear of taking on India, while India is afraid of taking on China, reason being India has agreed to become a proxy of US and getting all these new & latest weapons to counter China. Its India which is getting weapons from US for China, raising divisions and strike formations against China and talks of two front wars, not the other way around.

So clearly, its India which has become a more loyal proxy, when compared to Pakistan.
 
For how long Pakistan will blackmail USA to help maintain its conventional weapon balance against India.

How on earth only F-16 or lost credible conventional deterrence, which you have already lost though, will decide if Pakistan has to go for nuclear war straight away against India. Everyone but not you and your admirer knows the nuclear doctrine of Pakistan.

It is hard to digest for a Pakistani that Pakistani teeth are churned out by USA who wants to dictate south Asian security policies.

USA knows that today Pakistan is a mediocre military state who can not win a decisive war over Kashmir by both conventional and non conventional means against India but will certainly act proxy for china.

Furthermore USA has foreseeability to predict that Pakistan is over ambitious for its military aspiration cause India will never offend Pakistan's territories period.

No one is going to buy this time that India is Pakistan's enemy like they used to buy it before from Pakistan. The equations are changed and F16 saga is mere an Indicator for Pakistan to understand USA's sensitivities for WOT and to be honest about where she stands in this grand Asian game.

Typically for Pakistan it will take some time to adjust, however Pakistan can try its luck every where specially with china (Which Americans know very well) and is free to invest its hard earn money to gain parity against India for a would be head on war which will never occur.

Everyone is under pressure in this region but i am happy that war mongering Pakistan (who can bully of nuclear war on water, Kargil if India crosses LOC, and now F-16) is more effected and running around for other options.

we will see what you said in your post...and we already know what is going on ...so dont worry.....Alhamdolillah we already takng good care of everythng...so be happy and enjoy ure life...:victory::sniper::cheers::pakistan::pdf:
 
Corrections mate.

Pak didn't buy these weapons. These were part of aid to Pakistan. And for everything there is a license agreement that you have to sign. The license has the terms that Pak must obey. If it violates US will have full right to take away these weapons or destroy or disable them if required.

Even if you buy things, there's an agreement to it. You don't own things when you buy them, you just buy the right to use them. The terms and conditions are still valid after the purchase.

Many times i see your post and please before any post first do some research. this is a friendly advice for example can you validate your statement that Pakistan didn't purchase F16 and it is part of military aid and please check these site and then reply me

ASIAN DEFENCE: Delivery of F-16 Block 52 to Pakistan Shows Deepening Relations

F-16
 
Wow, someone seems to be having a hell of a day being delusional.

War mongering Pakistan ?? Seriously you need to look at the attitude of your own country's politicians, media and generals before pointing at us to be war mongers.

And how US is pimping India, it seems India is more of a proxy for US then Pakistan to be one for China, as China has no fear of taking on India, while India is afraid of taking on China, reason being India has agreed to become a proxy of US and getting all these new & latest weapons to counter China. Its India which is getting weapons from US for China, raising divisions and strike formations against China and talks of two front wars, not the other way around.

So clearly, its India which has become a more loyal proxy, when compared to Pakistan.

good post bro....
the evil powerz time is very short now in this world . Inshallah they will find no place to hide.
:victory::sniper::pakistan::pdf:
 
Wow, someone seems to be having a
So clearly, its India which has become a more loyal proxy, when compared to Pakistan.
Unfortunately, the West will use both as a proxy if given the chance.
 
Hey what about the F-16? It has had 339 class A crashes and the F-15 has had 140 class A crashes, if my math is correct that would be 479 crashes. I'm hoping the F-18 or F-16 wins the MRCA then i would laugh my butt off when the F-16 or F-18 recieves the nickname "flying coffin":rofl:

Then I'm sure after each crash you would pop in and make some smart *** remark about how the F-16 or F-18 is junk, just like you have been profusely doing with the Migs.

F15 figures are world wide, I am talking about over 500 mig crashs in India and I have not yet figured out how many Migs India has bought, but it could not have been that many.
 
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F15 figures are world wide, I am talking about over 500 mig crashs in India and I have not yet figured out how many Migs India has bought, but it could not have been that many.

Kindly keep the discussion as per the topic.

MiG crashes can be discussed in other threads, you can check out the Indian Defence section, you will for sure find the Mig-21 crashes threads to further discuss about.
 
Wow, someone seems to be having a hell of a day being delusional.

Getting personal or nervous ?
Being a Moderate here you can come out from no where and type few brave words with fair support of Pakistani fan following; doesn't make your assertion valid.

War mongering Pakistan ?? Seriously you need to look at the attitude of your own country's politicians, media and generals before pointing at us to be war mongers.

Would you mind backing up with some links, before i show videos of your Politicians and masses here. I was answering to Blain who thinks not having conventional weapon edge(F 16) etc. Pakistan will go for nuclear option straight away. In military terms the Pakistani nuclear threshold will go further low in that case; if someone has to make his long laborious post in short. I does not want to seem rude but that is war mongering of its kind and very offencive in all senses.

And how US is pimping India, it seems India is more of a proxy for US then Pakistan to be one for China, as China has no fear of taking on India, while India is afraid of taking on China, reason being India has agreed to become a proxy of US and getting all these new & latest weapons to counter China. Its India which is getting weapons from US for China, raising divisions and strike formations against China and talks of two front wars, not the other way around.

What a mix of emotional gushes and China China worship.
India has always maintained 3:1 divisions on key Indo-Chinese borders up north even at the times when Pakistan was acting proxy for both and when both USA, PAK & ~ China were hostile. Ask PLA why they can not maintain high saturation of Army on Indo- China border. India has common sense not to believe in confronting with its bigger neighbour but to maintain effective defence. Pakistan is free to make timely alliances, may vow to eat grass, can burden mammoth defence budget, can do mis-adventures like 1965, kargil and 26/11 to deter the India not us.

So clearly, its India which has become a more loyal proxy, when compared to Pakistan.

Do you have any moral high grounds to call India as US proxy? You were party to China post independence till today, USA during cold war and again during WOT. The only interesting thing here one can see that at all times it was catering your animosity against India.Now USA is telling you that India is not an enemy and he is directing your military resources on WOT, you all are getting offended.

And Can't you see how India work along with its partners. Cant you see how civil nuclear deal has cause political turmoils in India just recently. We are not a dumb society which will let India as a military base of Americans or Russians against anyone. We are a nation who refused refueling US jets during Gulf war. Furthermore we are buying US war machines with our hard earn money and open tenders. As far as Russia is concerned she was leasing us nuclear subs during Cold war and is still doing after cold war.

I am amazed with the both of yours imagination (cause you have jumped in) that USA will be responsible for Pakistan's nuclear threshold which Pakistan developed in vacuum (first) and brushed it up with the support of China. USA do not make policies for Pakistan only or India only these days, so one must try not to cry reading what US thinks about both on Individual cases.

Its not USA's liability or worry if Pakistan is losing its conventional edge and lowering its nuclear threshold against India. Pakistan is free to lower its sensitive (can be lowered if F-16 will be switched of during war)nuclear threshold, can add this clause in its nuclear doctrine and India will answer that appropriately.

Now you have joined blain and has shown me your sheer ignorance and typical allergy with every Indian comments. i can tell you upfront that you are not aware of current Pakistani nuclear programme and doctrine or just being hostile to me.

Every single procurement today Pakistan is getting or is planning is not very superior by quality and quantity ! if one compare with what India is getting and Planning. However is still credible enough to called as deterrent to India, as any weapon in Pakistan inventory will kill Indians and is a headache for sure. India has to work up a counter for the same. Interestingly Pakistan's nuclear stock pile is bigger than Indian and is (alleged) still growing.
So how one earth (again) F-16 strings has to anything to do with going nuclear against India. Pakistanis can become breathless boasting that their nukes are ultimate deterrent to India but still can dare to do nuclear war mongering if US F-16 will come with strings attached. How absurd, i mean is there any one here who can ask Pakistanis zip up, cause there will be no nuclear war cause nor India neither Pakistan know or prepare for nuclear war and nuclear battle field.

Regards.
 
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War Mongering or not - You gotta hand it to us for a game well played and causing real pain to India.
 
Getting personal or nervous ?
Being a Moderate here you can come out from no where and type few brave words with fair support of Pakistani fan following; doesn't make your assertion valid.



Would you mind backing up with some links, before i show videos of your Politicians and masses here. I was answering to Blain who thinks not having conventional weapon edge(F 16) etc. Pakistan will go for nuclear option straight away. In military terms the Pakistani nuclear threshold will go further low in that case; if someone has to make his long laborious post in short. I does not want to seem rude but that is war mongering of its kind and very offencive in all senses.



What a mix of emotional gushes and China China worship.
India has always maintained 3:1 divisions on key Indo-Chinese borders up north even at the times when Pakistan was acting proxy for both and when both USA, PAK & ~ China were hostile. Ask PLA why they can not maintain high saturation of Army on Indo- China border. India has common sense not to believe in confronting with its bigger neighbour but to maintain effective defence. Pakistan is free to make timely alliances, may vow to eat grass, can burden mammoth defence budget, can do mis-adventures like 1965, kargil and 26/11 to deter the India not us.



Do you have any moral high grounds to call India as US proxy? You were party to China post independence till today, USA during cold war and again during WOT. The only interesting thing here one can see that at all times it was catering your animosity against India.Now USA is telling you that India is not an enemy and he is directing your military resources on WOT, you all are getting offended.

And Can't you see how India work along with its partners. Cant you see how civil nuclear deal has cause political turmoils in India just recently. We are not a dumb society which will let India as a military base of Americans or Russians against anyone. We are a nation who refused refueling US jets during Gulf war. Furthermore we are buying US war machines with our hard earn money and open tenders. As far as Russia is concerned she was leasing us nuclear subs during Cold war and is still doing after cold war.

I am amazed with the both of yours imagination (cause you have jumped in) that USA will be responsible for Pakistan's nuclear threshold which Pakistan developed in vacuum (first) and brushed it up with the support of China. USA do not make policies for Pakistan only or India only these days, so one must try not to cry reading what US thinks about both on Individual cases.

Its not USA's liability or worry if Pakistan is losing its conventional edge and lowering its nuclear threshold against India. Pakistan is free to lower its sensitive (can be lowered if F-16 will be switched of during war)nuclear threshold, can add this clause in its nuclear doctrine and India will answer that appropriately.

Now you have joined blain and has shown me your sheer ignorance and typical allergy with every Indian comments. i can tell you upfront that you are not aware of current Pakistani nuclear programme and doctrine or just being hostile to me.

Every single procurement today Pakistan is getting or is planning is not very superior by quality and quantity ! if one compare with what India is getting and Planning. However is still credible enough to called as deterrent to India, as any weapon in Pakistan inventory will kill Indians and is a headache for sure. India has to work up a counter for the same. Interestingly Pakistan's nuclear stock pile is bigger than Indian and is (alleged) still growing.
So how one earth (again) F-16 strings has to anything to do with going nuclear against India. Pakistanis can become breathless boasting that their nukes are ultimate deterrent to India but still can dare to do nuclear war mongering if US F-16 will come with strings attached. How absurd, i mean is there any one here who can ask Pakistanis zip up, cause there will be no nuclear war cause nor India neither Pakistan know or prepare for nuclear war and nuclear battle field.

Regards.

Great post.

But the sad part is we did't able to increase our nukes stock pile par with them. Our mod should take some action on this
 
Why dont you put your money where your mouth is and prove it to us that we got them as aid package. After all you are the one rebuffing the link by calling it non credible, and saying otherwise.

I love your avatar hehe

oh the news item
my heart is bleeding .........
for Indian obsession with our F-16s:yahoo:
 
.................
And Can't you see how India work along with its partners. Cant you see how civil nuclear deal has cause political turmoils in India just recently. We are not a dumb society which will let India as a military base of Americans or Russians against anyone. We are a nation who refused refueling US jets during Gulf war.....................

Regards.

Yawn... what does it all have to do with this F-16 story?
 
Would you mind backing up with some links, before i show videos of your Politicians and masses here. I was answering to Blain who thinks not having conventional weapon edge(F 16) etc. Pakistan will go for nuclear option straight away. In military terms the Pakistani nuclear threshold will go further low in that case; if someone has to make his long laborious post in short. I does not want to seem rude but that is war mongering of its kind and very offencive in all senses.

Not sure why you are so offended? Pakistan has legitimate conventional defence needs. Can you deny this? Any major conventional weapons purchase is being funded by Pakistan and not from US aid. Aside from a limited number of EDA articles, most of the major weapon systems including F-16 blk-52s, JF-17s, Erieyes, ordnance etc. has come from Pakistani money. The same as India will be financing the MMRCA, C-17, C-130, M-777 purchases. So not sure what irks you so much? The problem here is the Indian insecurity and that too a massively misplaced one. While, as per your side, no one should ever say anything to India about where from and what they buy, you have no qualms about complaining when Pakistan does the same. Why the double standards? Do you see us complaining when you acquire US, Israeli or Russian hardware? No we don't. Its your right as a sovereign nation to do so, how we manage our defences, you should leave to us in line with mutual respect for each others sovereignty.

What should stop Pakistan from purchasing F-16s for its needs if the Indians are being allowed to purchase the same with Pakistan in their mind as the primary threat or even if Pakistan is not in their minds (this is a big if)?

In military terms, the lower the conventional capability, the quicker up the rungs you go to nuclear escalation. NATO-Warsaw pact never had conventional parity. The Warsaw pact countries always had more. However the Soviets knew that their conventional superiority was pretty much irrelevant because of the nuclear escalation that would take place if NATO suffered serious set backs conventionally. Pakistan's situation is no different. Its a matter of Pakistan's survival. It would be war-mongering if we threatened India with a nuclear strike as soon as things flared up. This is not the case. Pakistan spends money to maintain sufficient conventional capability to avoid having to ever go down the path of a nuclear escalation. Pakistani nuclear weapons have *NEVER* been readied for use despite the trash that has appeared in the press about the 2002 standoff. Realize that people in Pakistan also want to live and let live. India is not on our minds all of the time, however our security imperatives are as such that we require a certain conventional capability to be maintained. If the US side understands this, its all the better for the region.

You seem to be forgetting the point I made about US allowing Pakistan to acquire enough, but not to the point where we attain full conventional parity with India, at least with US equipment. Secondly, nobody is suggesting here that Pakistan should go the path of attaining parity with India conventionally. Pakistan needs to have a "minimal" credible conventional and nuclear deterrence. The US side realizes this and before your insecurities get the better of you, do realize that this is good for India too.
 
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Not sure why you are so offended? Pakistan has legitimate conventional defence needs. Can you deny this? Any major conventional weapons purchase is being funded by Pakistan and not from US aid. Aside from a limited number of EDA articles, most of the major weapon systems including F-16 blk-52s, JF-17s, Erieyes, ordnance etc. has come from Pakistani money. The same as India will be financing the MMRCA, C-17, C-130, M-777 purchases. So not sure what irks you so much? The problem here is the Indian insecurity a..................................................

exceptional post

the problem is with Indian leadership
63 years have passed and the great Indian leadership is still unable to accept the partition. in fact it has problems with every neighboring country no doubt a massive country of over 1 billion people but i think Sri Lankans have bigger hearts than these chaps

no offence but its their paranoia. with 30+ infantry and armored divisions deployed along over borders along with forward air bases in war footings India still thinks a country 1/5th of its size with a dozen F16s can cause it an existential threat.

I only hope that their policy makers grow out of it and start acting like a mature nation. they done well on the economic side I hope they show some improvement in the international relations too
 
What r the chances that new and future f16 are bugged? Given current isi-cia public spat! Hey you never know?
 
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