US Congressional hearing may spell trouble for Pakistan

[American Pakistani]

+1.

Let me add that all the names of the older provinces should be abolished and new names with newer territories carved out in a way that people from distinct etno-linguistic groups are brought together in one administrative division.

There should not be any Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan or Pakhtun-khwah left. All these names indicating ethnic or linguistic affiliations.

I would say the better names for new administrative divisions should be either relating to their geography or just after their largest/historic cities. e.g. Mehran, Khyber, Abaseen, Thar, Gandhara, Chenab, Bolan, etc.

We carved out a nation out of British India, why can we not carve some administrative divisions out of it. It's possible.

Some more to add Makran, Qallat(Kalat), Potohar, Swat etc.

Balochistan issue will melt away if there is step taken to dissolve all current provinces & creating new provinces.

 

[American Pakistani]

If there is no statement coming from China in response to US Congressional hearing, then, it's only a storm in a teacup.

Please we Pakistanis need to stand up on our own feet instead of looking for anyone's statements. It is Okay if China gives statement in favor of Pakistan but it should be look as bonus not compulsive.

 

[Alpha Omega]

The province system in Pakistan should be changed by removing the Ethnic divide and have a free flowing movement of people between provinces and security for All Pakistanis , this is a no issue made into an issue

I concur, best way to solve ethnic divide is to make more provinces. Every Zilah or District should be given the status of a province, some with more autonomy than others.

 

[LeGenD]

do you really live live in Pakistan? how much do you know about military logistics and troops movement?
do you have a clue how many Infantry, mechanized infantry, armour and artillery divisions India has along the border with Pakistan? (make a guess why they are there?)

Yes brother, I live in Pakistan.

Pakistani military has the capability to conduct largest military exercises in its history like Azam-e-Nau (involving military helicopters) to send a message to India, regardless of pressures of WOT, and you believe that it does not have the capability to conduct an operation in North Waziristan?

Yes, I am well aware of the fact that the cost of logistics would be high in diverting some resources from the Indian front. However, do you think that India would attempt a Kargil in current times when it is clear that Pakistani nuclear assets have considerably improved?

Moving a few brigades from the Indian front and diverting some military assets from the South Waziristan region should have been enough. SSG could also be put to use. This is in line with official claims of Pakistani military that South Waziristan region have been cleared of the militants.

Why do you think they are there? And if Pakistan does move a substantial part of its forces defending our side against any possible Indian invasion, what guarantee do you have that the Indians will also move back their troops away from the borders? Or at least wont do anything while we leave our flanks open to them? Specially if there is a Mumbai style atrocity as well while we are busy doing the American bidding in NW?

Read above. By the grace of Allah Almighty, India cannot attempt any misadventure in current times due to high state of readiness of our armed forces. India found this out in 2008 very clearly.

Curbing militancy from every part of Pakistan would benefit us in the long term. Pakistan's image would be redeemed internationally and peace will prevail internally. People within Pakistan would be able to move freely in any part of the country without fearing kidnappings and killings.

We need to think long term, brother.

Of-course, we could lay down 'our terms of engagment with USA' before launching this new operation. When attitude was NO from the begining from our side then any agreement was out of question.

Musharraf was in the same dilemma too when he faced the decision to go in to South Waziristan and do something about Taliban. But he did not chicken out.

India wants us to fail, brother. And we fell for its bluff.

Are you aware that Americans not only refused access to drone technology but also refused to share the command and control of their operations? Also they turned down the gunships and even the troops transport helicopters that are a must in the COIN operations, super sonic jets are not the appropriate and cost effective means to fight the insurgency.
The so called military “aid” was cut off ages ago F-16s were fully paid for by us, they are not part of the “aid”.

Drone technology is America's new state-of-the-art weapon. Of-course, America would hesitate in giving access of this technology to other nations and not just Pakistan.

You sure that no helicopters are available for a new military operation? What we will do, if God forbid, a new war breaks out?

Also, we succeeded in South Waziristan without the requirement of these super drones, right?

And PAF has conducted over 5000 sorties in WOT thus far.

I am not sure how many times you had to relocate from one city to another so I don’t know if you can imagine the time, money and the logistics required to move tens of thousands of troops from one side of the border to the other side where the terrain itself is not plain and easy. NW operation was never a NO NO for our army, but we have only managed to consolidate our positions throughout the Pak Afghan border excluding that part of the agency and not ignoring the BLA terrorism in Balochistan and the Swat operation when world started crying that the terrorists were 60 miles away from the capital.

Brother, this is OUR war. Every part of Pakistan should be cleared of militancy.

Pakistan is in such a state of mess because of past mistakes and illogical strategic thinking. We can't blame the world for the EVIL that exists inside Pakistan. Their is no excuse but to clear our home, at any cost.

The better option which Pakistan has been trying to convince the yanks is to get on the table with the Taliban which is much easier and better approach because all the might and firepower has not subdued the will of the Afghans. Pakistan has suffered a lot already and it is not in its interest to go into NW as the next demand is going to be going after the “Quetta Shurah”.

Brother, talks with Taliban have been going on for a long time. We have attempted talks with TTP too but they do not work. I am not against talks but it should be on OUR TERMS. The only way to do this is to make Taliban realize that its barbaric customs will no longer work. It has to change for the betterment of the society or face annihilation.

All the firepower did not work in Afghanistan because of a reason, and this reason has strained our relationship with USA. Unfortunately, this matter runs much deeper then I am willing to openly discuss.

Keep in mind that loosing USA is not a strategic win for Pakistan. It is a gain for India instead.

Given the American attitude towards Pakistani concerns re BLA and the freedom of movement of the TTP leadership in Afghanistan and facilitating our most wanted terrorist Bramdagh Bughtti, I don’t think any Pakistani should be willing to sacrifice any more lives for such kind of an ally. American double games even before the invasion of Afghanistan when they established contacts with BLA as an insurance policy against Pakistan mean that they don’t have any right to complain about Pakistan not launching NW operations or keeping contacts with Haqqanis although it’s the same veritable arm that Gen Mullens team is now meeting in Doha and Saudi Arabia.

Of-course, now is not the right time for this kind of operation. That decision has been taken long ago.

I just wanted to point out that we are now experiencing the fallout of our decision regarding North Waziristan and not doing something about this "Quetta Surah," when the time was right.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Some more to add Makran, Qallat(Kalat), Potohar, Swat etc.

Balochistan issue will melt away if there is step taken to dissolve all current provinces & creating new provinces.

I see posts from yourself and User1 about creating new provinces
I fail to see how do you think they will somehow help in resolving the issue of terrorism. the issues wont just melt away by creating new provinces because its the rotten political lot and the corrupt system that breeds all the ills leading to dissent in the population.

If you still have the same political dynasties wining the seats and the same culture of bribes, commissions and favouritism in the civil administration then no matter how many provinces you make you will only multiply the problem.

Creating new provinces is of secondary importance and has more to do with good governance and efficiency. But to achieve that you need a good political leadership and a system that encourages hard working and public serving civil administration which under the current situation seems like a joke to even imagine.

I will repeat the words of a Baloch who attended the Karachi PTI rally when asked about what Imran Khan had said about Balochistan, he said that “we Baloch are not looking for an apology from anybody but we are looking for job opportunities, security and prosperity”.
Making Kalat, Pasni Gawadar, Chagi, Lasbela and Loralai as separate provinces wont solve the BLA terrorism and neither it would bring change in the minds of the black mailing chieftains who are just looking for the right price to shut up at the expense of their own people.

The solution is reaching the population without the channel of the Tribal chieftain and then creating an atmosphere which helps in creating a leadership that is true representative of the people. It would discourage corruption and mismanagement and will replace the rotten eggs with hard working and motivated people who will act as true public servants.

A steady progress towards that goal will mean that Americans can hold as many congressional hearings about Balochistan for all we care, they would be wasting the American tax money and banging their heads with the mountains of Balochsitan and their exit from this region will be as ceremonious and cordial as it was from Vietnam.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I concur, best way to solve ethnic divide is to make more provinces. Every Zilah or District should be given the status of a province, some with more autonomy than others.

why not make every ward and every Mohallah a province?

I am sorry for not following this seemingly simple formula which will make all our problems go away like a magic

 

[Rafi]

The reasons we cannot go for a NWA operation, is we need to pacify and hand over area's liberated by our forces, although some areas have come a long way, such as SWAT (which is safe now) - it will be some time before it is handed over to the civvies. It would be foolish to put your hand into the hornets nest (what NWA is) without total control in the areas we are in.

Regarding the BLA and all the other alphabet outfits - that are too numerous to name, and some that just involve a handful of people, this is an insurgency we can handle quite well - they have limitations, in manpower and intel has done a good job of infiltrating their ranks.

But we do need to target the social, economic and other matters - that are causing the problem in the first place. Overall we are in a much better place than 2 or 3 years ago.

 

[Alpha Omega]

why not make every ward and every Mohallah a province?

I am sorry for not following this seemingly simple formula which will make all our problems go away like a magic

Problems won't go away but decentralization is the key to fight communal and ethnic divide. Punjab and Sindh dominate national politics. Will that still be the case if there is no Punjab or Sindh left but 22 federal states or provinces?

 

[American Pakistani]

I see posts from yourself and User1 about creating new provinces
I fail to see how do you think they will somehow help in resolving the issue of terrorism. the issues wont just melt away by creating new provinces because its the rotten political lot and the corrupt system that breeds all the ills leading to dissent in the population.

If you still have the same political dynasties wining the seats and the same culture of bribes, commissions and favouritism in the civil administration then no matter how many provinces you make you will only multiply the problem.

Creating new provinces is of secondary importance and has more to do with good governance and efficiency. But to achieve that you need a good political leadership and a system that encourages hard working and public serving civil administration which under the current situation seems like a joke to even imagine.

I will repeat the words of a Baloch who attended the Karachi PTI rally when asked about what Imran Khan had said about Balochistan, he said that “we Baloch are not looking for an apology from anybody but we are looking for job opportunities, security and prosperity”.
Making Kalat, Pasni Gawadar, Chagi, Lasbela and Loralai as separate provinces wont solve the BLA terrorism and neither it would bring change in the minds of the black mailing chieftains who are just looking for the right price to shut up at the expense of their own people.

The solution is reaching the population without the channel of the Tribal chieftain and then creating an atmosphere which helps in creating a leadership that is true representative of the people. It would discourage corruption and mismanagement and will replace the rotten eggs with hard working and motivated people who will act as true public servants.

A steady progress towards that goal will mean that Americans can hold as many congressional hearings about Balochistan for all we care, they would be wasting the American tax money and banging their heads with the mountains of Balochsitan and their exit from this region will be as ceremonious and cordial as it was from Vietnam.

I was only talking in a sense that it will be better governed & BLA influence which is mainly in central Balochistan & Turbat will become useless. I don't think IK or any politician should talk to BLA but i fully support if any one talk to leaders of Bugti, Marri & Mengal tribes. It will be better if the govt make a law that any province who doesn't produce gas(take gas for example) must buy it from govt of other province that produce gas. Same case with electricity & water.

---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 PM ----------

I see posts from yourself and User1 about creating new provinces
I fail to see how do you think they will somehow help in resolving the issue of terrorism. the issues wont just melt away by creating new provinces because its the rotten political lot and the corrupt system that breeds all the ills leading to dissent in the population.

If you still have the same political dynasties wining the seats and the same culture of bribes, commissions and favouritism in the civil administration then no matter how many provinces you make you will only multiply the problem.

Creating new provinces is of secondary importance and has more to do with good governance and efficiency. But to achieve that you need a good political leadership and a system that encourages hard working and public serving civil administration which under the current situation seems like a joke to even imagine.

I will repeat the words of a Baloch who attended the Karachi PTI rally when asked about what Imran Khan had said about Balochistan, he said that “we Baloch are not looking for an apology from anybody but we are looking for job opportunities, security and prosperity”.
Making Kalat, Pasni Gawadar, Chagi, Lasbela and Loralai as separate provinces wont solve the BLA terrorism and neither it would bring change in the minds of the black mailing chieftains who are just looking for the right price to shut up at the expense of their own people.

The solution is reaching the population without the channel of the Tribal chieftain and then creating an atmosphere which helps in creating a leadership that is true representative of the people. It would discourage corruption and mismanagement and will replace the rotten eggs with hard working and motivated people who will act as true public servants.

A steady progress towards that goal will mean that Americans can hold as many congressional hearings about Balochistan for all we care, they would be wasting the American tax money and banging their heads with the mountains of Balochsitan and their exit from this region will be as ceremonious and cordial as it was from Vietnam.

I was only talking in a sense that it will be better governed & BLA influence which is mainly in central Balochistan & Turbat will become useless. I don't think IK or any politician should talk to BLA but i fully support if any one talk to leaders of Bugti, Marri & Mengal tribes. It will be better if the govt make a law that any province who doesn't produce gas(take gas for example) must buy it from govt of other province that produce gas. Same case with electricity & water.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

One of the frist thing that has to be done is


a) Removal of the Provinces formed on basis of Ethnicity , in British Era and we should have 20-30 Provincial Zones
b) Budget Allocation should be on basis of which zone pays the max taxes
c) On consensus form , their should only be a term "Pakistani" and no sub group should be acknowledged


Being Muslim > Pakistaini > Tax Payers

This should be the only criteria of being a Pakistani


KEY POINT BUDGET ALLOCATION should be based on who pays the MOST TAX !!! Like in USA


Gov should be responsible for
a) Medical Care
b) 1 Standard Education system across country
c) Solid Sports foundation for Youth so they spend time in healthy pass time

 

[Developereo]

I just wanted to point out that we are now experiencing the fallout of our decision regarding North Waziristan and not doing something about this "Quetta Surah," when the time was right.

There is a dirty, underhanded war going on for the last several years using jihadi proxies by all sides. Pakistan uses some Taliban elements, while India and the US use TTP, BLA, etc. The only difference is that Pakistan gets castigated for it, but the other side pretends to be holy and, given the complicit Western media, this is the narrative promoted around the world.

Pakistan is further disadvantaged by the fact that this war is happening on our doorsteps. India and the US are keeping their proxies at arm's length and, after the LTTE fiasco, have learned not to keep wild dogs in their own living room. Any operation in N. Waziristan would be futile since the proxies would simply run across the border and come back when the heat is off. That is why, as long as the US remains in Afghanistan, there is absolutely nothing Pakistan can do to fight the TTP, BLA, etc.

 

[VelocuR]

Absolutely Pakistan government will gain alot of benefits by splitting Balouchistan from Pakistan, they will get more profits and massive cash in Swiss Accounts. Maybe Pakistan Army will consider it.

They basically care about money than the interests of Pakistan demands. No doubt, government and army should go for it. Balouch natiionalists will be pleased...Problem solved and happy ending for the best world peace...

 

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

well as an MBA Candidate in his 2nd (final) year, with an already registered (but yet to be developed) company based in 2 countries -and concurrently having years of experience in the private sector - I think i know very well what TCO is


your defence attache exercised poor judgement, he took risks......he lost his hollow head for it and was cremated pre-maturely.
Chapter closed. At the very least as far as he's concerned.

now moving on.

i feel i was reasonably clear earlier when i implied (or rather, stated quite bluntly) that any anti-Pakistan activity will be met with disproportionately harsh repercussions.

your aspirations against Pakistan will not see time of day because there are people on our side (your enemies) who will resist whole-heartedly.

I find it quite unfortunate that you dot-heads never cut your losses when your RoI moved from green to negative - 2001 compared to 2012.

worked so well that the NATOs -- who were adament even to have untouchables polish their boots -- are now in negotiations with the people you consider your enemies in Afghanistan.

i dont think Amrullah Saleh's cries are any louder than those made by the dot-heads across the border.


sound strategy indeed

Sir, you dont seem to be a very bright student I think.. If you think India's ROI in Afgh moved to negative in 2001, you are being extremely naive (or optimistic). Case in point is the stead drop of Kashmir insurgency since 9/11 and a more steep drop in Pakistan's rhetoric on Kashmir in that time. India does not want Afghanistan for strategic depth. But by engaging Afghan govt and increasing India's presence there, we have kept Pakistan on a boil where now Pakistan is too busy protecting its backyard (side) than interfering in Kashmir. The bigger benefit for India has been the steadily growing equity of India in Afghanistan. I would say for an investment of billion dollars, the returns are off the charts..

Pakistan on the other hands has led herself down the garden path to hell sacrificing money and its jawans in a desperate play to retain its stranglehold on Afghanistan but is being totally unsuccessful at the time.

I wont predict what future will hold, but India has invested money and time, where as Pakistan has sacrificed its Army and civilian population in the great game of Afghanistan. So I would say that the risk reward ratio is pretty much skewed in India's favor..

btw, can I ask you why do you intentionally use racist terms in your posts? Do you think your arguments do not carry enough weight that you need to spice your posts up with other masala..??Taking lessons from Bollywood. Are you?

 

[Omar1984]

Absolutely Pakistan government will gain alot of benefits by splitting Balouchistan from Pakistan, they will get more profits and massive cash in Swiss Accounts. Maybe Pakistan Army will consider it.

They basically care about money than the interests of Pakistan demands. No doubt, government and army should go for it. Balouch natiionalists will be pleased...Problem solved and happy ending for the best world peace...

Stop trolling. Balochistan is Pakistan's largest province by land mass. If we refused to give away Azad Kashmir which is just a small strip of land, why the hell would we give up our largest province without a fight?

Balochistan is Pakistan. End of story. Baloch separatists can waste all their time waging an internet jihad on Pakistan from U.S. and Canada, it will not solve anything. They will just lose more of their hair.

 

[Omar1984]

I concur, best way to solve ethnic divide is to make more provinces. Every Zilah or District should be given the status of a province, some with more autonomy than others.

Let Amreeka leave. Everything will work out for Pakistan once the U.S. pulls out of Afghanistan.

Let ISI and Pak Army do their job and show no mercy to BLA terrorists.