US Congress passes Israel strategic partnership bill

[al-Hasani]

Then explain this instead of writing nonsense.

WRMEA | U.S. Financial Aid To Israel: Figures, Facts, and Impact

U.S. military aid to Israel exceeds $100 billion - Diplomacy and Defense Israel News | Haaretz

Gentlemen can you explain this to me?

@Nihonjin1051

@OCguy

@Desertfalcon

@Desert Fox

What's the view of the average American taxpayer and what does US actually gain from this disproportionate partnership?

Thanks.

 

[Falcon29]

@al-Hasani

No explaining to do.

It simply is contradictory to give such major military support and political backing for Israel's wars and also vetoing resolutions that bring us closer to peace. U.S. even vetoes recognition of Palestine. Definitely not role of honest broker. The role is to enhance occupation/oppression as much as possible which is detrimental to peace.

 

[Aepsilons]

Gentlemen can you explain this to me?

@Nihonjin1051

@OCguy

@Desertfalcon

@Desert Fox

What's the view of the average American taxpayer and what does US actually gain from this disproportionate partnership?

Thanks.

American foreign policy is linked to Israel considering Israel is the keystone in American operations in that region, historically. Tho I would deign to conjecture that the United States prefers the state of Israel to remain strong so that it would deflect threats in the region. Israel serves America's purpose in that it bears the brunt of regional angst , if Israel did not exist, then the United Stayes would be forced to deal with some players directly. Having Israel there benefits America and 5 billion or so is negligible compared to what would be spent in a direct strategic confrontation.

I would invite some of my peers that have a greater command of this region's history and dynamics, so permit me to tag them. @LeveragedBuyout , @SvenSvensonov , @F-22Raptor , @CENTCOM , @TruthSeeker , @gambit , @Death.By.Chocolate et Al.

 

[al-Hasani]

@al-Hasani

No explaining to do.

It simply is contradictory to give such major military support and political backing for Israel's wars and also vetoing resolutions that bring us closer to peace. U.S. even vetoes recognition of Palestine. Definitely not role of honest broker. The role is to enhance occupation/oppression as much as possible which is detrimental to peace.

You know that I am not anti-Western per se (just some foreign policies that I disagree with) but honestly speaking when everyone studies this conflict and looks themselves in the mirror this conclusion is difficult to ignore. Of course faults are also committed by the other side here but it is deeper than this.

As you know, as we have discussed this very closely and on many occasions, the current events sadden and frustrate me and I very much hope that you and Israelis can learn to live in peace together but it is so easy to say this knowing what has been going on and knowing about the interests of various players and people.

Honestly I believe that most Palestinians and Israelis would want nothing more than a peaceful settlement to this conflict. The longer a true peace talk is lacking the more bloodshed there will be and thus even more hatred. All detrimental to the peace.

One cannot stop thinking about all the children and people who do not know about the evils of this world in Gaza and the West Bank (hell even in Israel as well) that are growing up in such a toxic environment.

We forget that in every such conflict it is the silent majority that is getting destroyed. What they show us on the news is just the front figures.

I never watched on any news channel (don't even recall watching this on Arab news) investigative reports where families that lost loved ones or whose life's got changed are visited etc. Where are all those heroes that lost everything in their life's but still call for peace and still have not lost hope in justice? Why do we not hear about them?

American foreign policy is linked to Israel considering Israel is the keystone in American operations in that region, historically. Tho I would deign to conjecture that the United States prefers the state of Israel to remain strong so that it would deflect threats in the region. Israel serves America's purpose in that it bears the brunt of regional angst , if Israel did not exist, then the United Stayes would be forced to deal with some players directly. Having Israel there benefits America and 5 billion or so is negligible compared to what would be spent in a direct strategic confrontation.

I would invite some of my peers that have a greater command of this region's history and dynamics, so permit me to tag them. @LeveragedBuyout , @SvenSvensonov , @F-22Raptor , @CENTCOM , @TruthSeeker , @gambit , @Death.By.Chocolate et Al.

The question is if it would not be more benefitting for the US to have a more neutral policy vis a vis Israel and Palestine? Many arguments could speak for such a policy instead. Also a mediator (key one that is even) of this conflict which has taken sides so clearly cannot work honestly in the interests of both groups in order to end the conflict once and for all (or the brunt of it) in my opinion.

The US could have many potential allies in the region, it already has allies, but the trust would be even greater had there been a sense of objectivity.

This is the region's most sensitive issue and conflict and a conflict that has given rise to many of the problems of this region.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

American foreign policy is linked to Israel considering Israel is the keystone in American operations in that region, historically. Tho I would deign to conjecture that the United States prefers the state of Israel to remain strong so that it would deflect threats in the region. Israel serves America's purpose in that it bears the brunt of regional angst , if Israel did not exist, then the United Stayes would be forced to deal with some players directly. Having Israel there benefits America and 5 billion or so is negligible compared to what would be spent in a direct strategic confrontation.

I would invite some of my peers that have a greater command of this region's history and dynamics, so permit me to tag them. @LeveragedBuyout , @SvenSvensonov , @F-22Raptor , @CENTCOM , @TruthSeeker , @gambit , @Death.By.Chocolate et Al.

Nihon, buddy, you're starting to concern me. First you offer me a welcomed (and I do mean that sincerely please don't think I'm being sarcastic or critical), but highly unexpected dissertation on the Philippine's economic, political and geographic situation, now you are soliciting my views on politics... Might I offer you my business card, I might need to see you in my office.

- I'm just messing with you... mostly (I would like to see you in my office, but only to shake your hand and buy you a drink after work), but in general I stay far away from politics, especially hotly contested issues such as US-China relations or US support for Israel, though I do value your interest in reading my views. I must respectfully decline however. Politics just isn't my thing. Everyone has their views, a willingness to present them to others, but an unwillingness to find a consensus with those who have contrary views. Even in discussions on forums such as PDF, political debates end up in a gridlock like the US Congress and since they often go nowhere, other then each calling the other an idiot for holding contrary views to one's self, I stay away from these debates, though I'm not politically apathetic. I have an interest in politics and a firm grasp on domestic and international issues, just not an interest in discussing such things.

If you'd like a nice rundown on US-Israel military relations or equipment, I would be glad to offer and have much to provide in that realm.

I'll say this though, in response to @al-Hasani - the US tax payer doesn't gain much. Israel often goes against US wishes and interests. It and Turkey spar, Israel provides US know-how and equipment to China, and it causes problems that the US wishes it wouldn't... such as the assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists. However, we support Israel as it is one of the more stable nations in the region, though the US tax payers largely would rather the US leave the Middle-East, Israel included, to implode. Our friendship with Israel is largely to thank for Israels good relations with Jordan, Saudi Arabia and other nations in the region, so our relationship isn't all bad from a political perspective.

Israel can stand on it's own, it no longer needs the US to help prop it up. It's military, political and economic situations are stable, the US should leave the region to itself and only intervene when the greater stability of the region is threatened... rather then us cause problems were none existed before.

The US should take a neutral stance. As in neither support nor deny Palestinian statehood, neither support nor condemn Israeli settlements, the US should take no side in any debate in the Middle-East... we shouldn't concern ourselves with that region at all.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

American foreign policy is linked to Israel considering Israel is the keystone in American operations in that region, historically. Tho I would deign to conjecture that the United States prefers the state of Israel to remain strong so that it would deflect threats in the region. Israel serves America's purpose in that it bears the brunt of regional angst , if Israel did not exist, then the United Stayes would be forced to deal with some players directly. Having Israel there benefits America and 5 billion or so is negligible compared to what would be spent in a direct strategic confrontation.

I would invite some of my peers that have a greater command of this region's history and dynamics, so permit me to tag them. @LeveragedBuyout , @SvenSvensonov , @F-22Raptor , @CENTCOM , @TruthSeeker , @gambit , @Death.By.Chocolate et Al.

I have answered this several times previously, but since I am on a mobile device, I find it hard to copy and paste the same list of reasons again (search for "mosquito torch"). Short version/main reason: we support Israel through military aid because we are bound to by treaty (the Camp David Accords), which saw Israel give away land more than double the size of Israel proper (the Sinai peninsula).

Funny that no one ever questions the military aid we give to Egypt as a result of that same treaty. Or the aid we give to Jordan. Or the money, and more importantly, blood, that we put on the line for South Korea. Et cetera. Really tired of the asymmetrical and one-sided opposition to aid for Israel, to be honest, since it's clearly driven by ignorance at best, malice at worst.

 

[500]

Gentlemen can you explain this to me?

@Nihonjin1051

@OCguy

@Desertfalcon

@Desert Fox

What's the view of the average American taxpayer and what does US actually gain from this disproportionate partnership?

Thanks.

General George Keegan, former head of U.S. Air Force Intelligence has publicly declared that “Israel is worth five CIA’s.” He further stated that between 1974 and 1990 Israel provided the U.S. with $50-80 billion in intelligence, research and development savings, and Soviet weapons systems captured and transferred to the U.S.

 

[Falcon29]

American foreign policy is linked to Israel considering Israel is the keystone in American operations in that region, historically.

What? Like what?

Tho I would deign to conjecture that the United States prefers the state of Israel to remain strong so that it would deflect threats in the region.Israel serves America's purpose in that it bears the brunt of regional angst , if Israel did not exist, then the United Stayes would be forced to deal with some players directly.

Nonsense you copied from the Hindu extremist on this forum. United States is not forced into 'dealing' with any 'players' directly. United States is some several thousand miles away from the region. Horrible excuse in your explanation. It makes no sense.

Having Israel there benefits America and 5 billion or so is negligible compared to what would be spent in a direct strategic confrontation.

More nonsense yet again.

Americans don't need Israel and neither do they want to provide military aid in 9$ billion plus a year as polls clearly showed. We Americans don't care about the excuses you Bible thumpers/Neocon lunatics make. We don't want anything to do with the region besides positive commercial ties, no political interference. You are so adamant on insisting we interfere in the politics of the region.

.....

Nihon, buddy, you're starting to concern me. First you offer me a welcomed (and I do mean that sincerely please don't think I'm being sarcastic or critical), but highly unexpected dissertation on the Philippine's economic, political and geographic situation, now you are soliciting my views on politics... Might I offer you my business card, I might need to see you in my office.

- I'm just messing with you... mostly (I would like to see you in my office, but only to shake your hand and buy you a drink after work), but in general I stay far away from politics, especially hotly contested issues such as US-China relations or US support for Israel, though I do value your interest in reading my views. I must respectfully decline however. Politics just isn't my thing. Everyone has their views, a willingness to present them to others, but an unwillingness to find a consensus with those who have contrary views. Even in discussions on forums such as PDF, political debates end up in a gridlock like the US Congress and since they often go nowhere, other then each calling the other an idiot for holding contrary views to one's self, I stay away from these debates, though I'm not politically apathetic. I have an interest in politics and a firm grasp on domestic and international issues, just not an interest in discussing such things.

If you'd like a nice rundown on US-Israel military relations or equipment, I would be glad to offer and have much to provide in that realm.

I'll say this though, in response to @al-Hasani - the US tax payer doesn't gain much. Israel often goes against US wishes and interests. It and Turkey spar, Israel provides US know-how and equipment to China, and it causes problems that the US wishes it wouldn't... such as the assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists. However, we support Israel as it is one of the more stable nations in the region, though the US tax payers largely would rather the US leave the Middle-East, Israel included, to implode. Our friendship with Israel is largely to thank for Israels good relations with Jordan, Saudi Arabia and other nations in the region, so our relationship isn't all bad from a political perspective.

Israel can stand on it's own, it no longer needs the US to help prop it up. It's military, political and economic situations are stable, the US should leave the region to itself and only intervene when the greater stability of the region is threatened... rather then us cause problems were none existed before.

The US should take a neutral stance. As in neither support nor deny Palestinian statehood, neither support nor condemn Israeli settlements, the US should take no side in any debate in the Middle-East... we shouldn't concern ourselves with that region at all.

Agree with a lot you said here. With exception of part regarding relations with Jordan or Saudi Arabia. I didn't understand that. And if the US wants to be neutral than we need to withdraw from role of brokering solution to conflict.[/QUOTE]

 

[Gabriel92]

It also crucially allows Israel to use the weapons in the event of an emergency, as it did this summer during its operation "Protective Edge" in Gaza.

During the war,the IDF lacked of ammunitions ?

 

[Aepsilons]

What? Like what? ...You are so adamant on insisting we interfere in the politics of the region.

U.S. policies in the region include:

• Helping Iraqis build a unified, stable, and prosperous country;
• Renewing progress toward the two-state solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict;
• Working against terrorists and their state sponsors, as well as against the spread of weapons of mass destruction; and
• Supporting efforts at economic and political reform in the region.

Reference:
Middle East: United States Policy Toward the Middle East: a Dossier | USPolicy

Americans don't need Israel and neither do they want to provide military aid in 9$ billion plus a year as polls clearly showed. We Americans don't care about the excuses you Bible thumpers/Neocon lunatics make. We don't want anything to do with the region besides positive commercial ties

You're wrong.

What accounts for the remarkable level of American support for Israel over the years? This question has given rise to an extensive literature, much of it partisan. Essentially the arguments can be boiled down to variations on the following: The United States has supported Israel as part of a grand design for extending its influence into the Middle East (Israel as strategic asset); and the United States has supported Israel because of domestic political factors (the Israeli lobby, Jewish vote, pro-Israeli PACS, shared values). Camille Mansour carefully surveys the record of the past 45 years and concludes that American support for Israel is more rooted in values (culture, ideology) than in anything else. This is not such a surprising conclusion, except that many of Mansour's fellow Arab intellectuals have vociferously defended the alternative explanations of grand conspiracy or powerful lobby. The author could have done without the occasional charts and graphs that are meant to provide a scientific cast to his explanations. They don't. Still, the overall level of analysis is impressive, the sources (mostly secondary) are wide-ranging, and the conclusions seem solid. One implication is that the end of the Cold War and the weakening of the "strategic asset" argument will not necessarily imperil U.S.-Israeli ties.

Reference:
Beyond Alliance: Israel and U.S. Foreign Policy | Foreign Affairs

During the war,the IDF lacked of ammunitions ?

Israel, as a nation of only some 6 million, has a GDP of about $305 Billion . Their defense budget is about 6.9% of their GDP, thus their total defense budget is around $16.5 Billion per annum. That is already quite large, not to mention the United States gives an additional $5 billion or so. They're in surplus, more so.

 

[Falcon29]

During the war,the IDF lacked of ammunitions ?

You're the only fool here.

U.S. resupplies Israel with munitions as Gaza offensive rages| Reuters

It wasn't just 'mortar rounds', later they admitted it included munitions/missiles/artillery.

 

[500]

Americans don't need Israel and neither do they want to provide military aid in 9$ billion plus a year as polls clearly showed.

LOL, yesterday you said 5 billion, now 9 billion.

Actual aid is 3.1 billion + several hundred thousand to missile program (272 mln for 2015) = 3.37 bln. Missile aid includes technology and production transfer from Israel to US.

You're the only fool here.

U.S. resupplies Israel with munitions as Gaza offensive rages| Reuters

It wasn't just 'mortar rounds', later they admitted it included munitions/missiles/artillery.

These are just routine supplies, nothing to do with the war.

 

[Falcon29]

U.S. policies in the region include:

• Helping Iraqis build a unified, stable, and prosperous country;
• Renewing progress toward the two-state solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict;
• Working against terrorists and their state sponsors, as well as against the spread of weapons of mass destruction; and
• Supporting efforts at economic and political reform in the region.

Read your post again genius:

'American foreign policy is linked to Israel considering Israel is the keystone in American operations in that region, historically.'

You're wrong.

No, I'm not wrong, the polls support my statements.

Camille Mansour carefully surveys the record of the past 45 years and concludes that American support for Israel is more rooted in values (culture, ideology) than in anything else.

What 'culture/ideology'?

Actual aid is 3.1 billion + several hundred thousand to missile program (272 mln for 2015) = 3.37 bln. Missile aid includes technology and production transfer from Israel to US.

@The SC @libertad

This man has so much disrespect towards the American people. He thinks we're all gullible and dumb people.

 

[illusion8]

American foreign policy is linked to Israel considering Israel is the keystone in American operations in that region, historically. Tho I would deign to conjecture that the United States prefers the state of Israel to remain strong so that it would deflect threats in the region. Israel serves America's purpose in that it bears the brunt of regional angst , if Israel did not exist, then the United Stayes would be forced to deal with some players directly. Having Israel there benefits America and 5 billion or so is negligible compared to what would be spent in a direct strategic confrontation.

I suspect there is a religious angle to the deep support. Christians would much rather prefer their holy lands be under Jewish Israel rather than Muslims. The blowing up of churches in ME or the restrictions to follow their faith in that region probably wouldn't give them any confidence.

 

[Falcon29]

Hazzy at his best. Lying about 5 billion then 9 billion. And then also complains. No wonder that you guys are still stateless.

I already explained the aid earlier in the post. Don't divert topic. And many Americans are well aware that aid surpasses public figures. Annual package is 3.4$ billion. In 2014 Israel got that plus more funding in various weapons systems. During assault on Gaza they had access to all 1.8$ billion in munitions stockpile. And in the same year US renewed the whole stockpile with 1.8$ billion as source states. The stockpile is intended for Israeli use and nothing else. Which makes that in 2014 at least 7.2 billion dollars. And Israel gets more than 1$ short/long term annual loans from US banks. Not including other grants.

I suspect there is a religious angle to the deep support. Christians would much rather prefer their holy lands be under Jewish Israel rather than Muslims. The blowing up of churches in ME or the restrictions to follow their faith in that region probably wouldn't give them any confidence.

Not true, first of all, nobody considers it a holy land in the 21st century. Besides the certain holy sites that are all in same Jerusalem quarter which people of all faiths visit. As Jews, Muslims and Christians all find the cave of Jesus or David's tomb holy to them. Palestinians don't have sectarian divisions. Here is a Christian Palestinian explaining this to you and others:

Palestinian Christian: Western Christians Don't Understand Gaza/Israeli Conflict

But I'm sure you neocon extremists still have hatred for these Christians that you claim to care about.

And for historical references, @al-Hasani can tell you how the ME was prior to colonalism period.