US CENTCOM adviser sees Pakistan in danger

[S-2]

"And that is pretty much the only thing we have heard on that particular far fetched tale."

Speak for yourself. Lt. Col. Nash has used this as a portion of his Pentagon de-briefs and as intro to other Marine embed training teams such as those I posted here. Colonel Nash's observations have been vetted, or so we can presume, by his repeated use of such in briefings and public commentary that has remained unretracted.

We've had numerous contacts along your border where circumstances of the engagements have proved "contentious". I'm surprised that you don't know so. We reply by direct fire on those occasions and have done so numerous times. Lt. General Jeffrey Schlosser (commander RC-EAST) recently made that emphatically clear towards the end of this 60 MINUTE piece by CBS.

"On the other hand, we have a former Pakistani COAS and President categorically confirming that Indian officials were supporting the Baluch insurgency, and having documentary evidence to support it."

And our reaction? I'm not in a position to confirm or deny Mr. Musharraf's contentions so my government's reaction will have to suffice as a reflection of my concern. I am in a position to comment on the relative severity of each insurrection and find one considerably more deadly to American interests.

"You have 'indications'? You were demanding a fair bit more than that for validating Pakistani accusations. We have plenty of 'indications' as well, presented frequently, but then you want photographic evidence."

I can demand as I wish to satisfy my personal interests, A.M. Honestly, sir, I highly doubt BaburCM's contention of training and arming from Afghanistan. I really, really do. I don't believe that with the British (who've declared the BLA a terrorist organization) in Helmand and the Canadians in Kandahar, with PREDATOR up within Afghanistan to include the far south, and with the presence of numerous neutral/peacenik NGOs that this is likely happening.

"What exactly is 'Pashtunistan'?"

Ummm...where Pastus live?

"There is a historical precedent for concern arising out of an unfriendly GoA and India nexus."

Maybe. Much of that history had the interesting intersection of the cold war to it as well. It's irrelevant though. The current GoA and India are getting along famously and your political interests there are being rendered irrelevant as well.

There is an obvious desire by some to see Pashtu aspirations best achieved by looking eastward to Pakistan. The mountain country of FATA would seem their natural heartland extending southwestward to Quetta

"...an expanded Afghanistan with a Pashtun majority instead of plurality would pose a larger demographic concern than one restricted to its current borders."

Indeed, were it the interest of some to expand Afghanistan geographically. I think that the interest here, though, is to shift pashtu DEMOGRAPHICS eastward and create a more modest plurality much less majority within Afghanistan.

"Nor did such concerns prevent Afghan irredentism and interference in Pakistan in the past under non-Taliban regimes."

A fly buzzing an elephant in your history compared to Kashmir, E. Pakistan, India, and Baluchistan.

 

[ejaz007]

Pakistan could collapse in six months: Kilcullen
Tuesday, March 24, 2009
Centcom adviser warns Pakistan in danger; says Pak security services a rogue state within a state
News Desk

WASHINGTON: The Pakistani state could collapse within six months if immediate steps are not taken to remedy the situation, warned a top adviser to the US Central Command.

David Kilcullen, who advises CENTCOM commander Gen. David H. Petraeus on the war on terror, urged US policymakers to focus their attention on Pakistan as a failure there could have devastating consequences for the entire international community.

In an interview with The Washington Post (Sunday Edition), Kilcullen, who is credited with the success of the US troop surge strategy in Iraq, warned that if Pakistan went out of control, it would ‘dwarf’ all the crises in the world today. “Pakistan hands down. No doubt,” he said when asked to name the central front in the war against terror.

Asked to explain why he thought Pakistan was so important, Kilcullen said: “Pakistan has 173 million people, 100 nuclear weapons, an army bigger than the US Army, and al-Qaeda headquarters sitting right there in the two-thirds of the country that the government doesnít control.”

He claimed that the Pakistani military and police and intelligence service did not follow the civilian government; they were essentially a rogue state within a state. “Were now reaching the point where within one to six months we could see the collapse of the Pakistani state, also because of the global financial crisis, which just exacerbates all these problems,” he said. “The collapse of Pakistan, al-Qaeda acquiring nuclear weapons, an extremist takeover — that would dwarf everything we’ve seen in the war on terror today.”

Kilcullen, an Australian anthropologist who advises governments on Muslim militancy throughout the West, disagreed with the suggestion that it was important to kill or capture Osama bin laden. He discussed two possible scenarios for catching the al-Qaeda leader. Scenario one is, American commandos shoot their way into some valley in Pakistan and kill bin Laden. This, Kilcullen said, would not end the war on terror and would make bin Laden a martyr.

The second scenario: a tribal raiding party captures bin Laden, puts him on television and says, “You are a traitor to Islam and you have killed more Muslims than you have killed infidels, and we’re now going to deal with you.” They could either then try and execute the guy in accordance with their own laws or hand him over to the International Criminal Court. “If that happened, that would be the end of the al-Qaeda myth,” said Kilcullen. He said that three lessons learned in Iraq could also apply to Afghanistan. The first one is to protect the population. “Unless people feel safe, they won’t be willing to engage in unarmed politics,” he argued.

The second lesson is to focus on getting the population on America’s side and making them self-defending. And then a third lesson is to make a long-term commitment. Kilcullen said that the Obama administration’s policy of reaching out to moderate elements of the Taliban also had several pitfalls. “If the Taliban see that we’re negotiating for a stay of execution or to stave off defeat, that’s going to harden their resolve,” he warns. “I’m all for negotiating, but I think the chances of achieving a mass wave of people turning against the Taliban are somewhat lower in Afghanistan than they were in Iraq.”

Pakistan could collapse in six months: Kilcullen

 

[ejaz007]

Dear S-2,

The authors crudentials regarding Iraq are one thing but his knowledge about Pakistan seems to be even worse than an average American.

How does he conclude that there were Al-qaeda in two third of Pakistan that government does not control.

At a time when we are making progress against Al-qaeda this article is nothing but cheap public support gathering stunt.

 

[S-2]

“If the Taliban see that we’re negotiating for a stay of execution or to stave off defeat, that’s going to harden their resolve,”

The militants have no reason at this point to seriously negotiate and America isn't seriously engaged for that reason. 2009 will be a decisive year. We're bent on expanding elections as far as possible this year, actively seeking taliban forces for open battle-particularly in heretofore unreached stretches, protecting the populations of the Kabul-Jalalabad axis and southern green zones, and severely attacking the opium crops of the south. That will strongly damage much of the taliban's support.

Holbrooke recently expressed his dismay at what our $800m contribution to the Bonn Accords British-led anti-eradication mission had bought. We've seen, according to UNODC, serious improvements in other reaches of the country. Nangahar, recently the scene of over 24,000 planted hectares of opium and in U.S. territory, has gone to zero according to UNODC. Hopefully that shall remain.

We've got to tangibly HURT the militants in key areas to provide some serious sobriety to their ambitions. Until then, there will be no substantive and meaningful negotiations.

Be assured of that.

 

[hembo]

Whatever... You keep on believing in your conspiracy rhetoric. You won't do any harm. I consider you to be a barking dog that doesn't bite. I know exactly where you're coming from. You're the same person that voted Bush into office and supported his idiocy for 8 years and still do. Your mind is poisoned with hate and disgust. You're hypnotized by the Bush syndrome. Your kind have been indoctrinated to an extent that rationality is hard to be found. You only believe in your own fantasised truth. I don't expect anything else from your kind. You just bark, but don't have any teeth to bite. I don't expect any sane discussion with you. Instead, the discussion will only deteriorate and I don't want that to happen. You're on my ignore list. I'm not going to reply to your on topic discussions to avoid a heated exchange.

You are a hard core patriot, whose blood boils whenever someone even tries to point a finger at your motherland. Hats off to you and all of pak will be proud to have sons like you.

However, having said that, you must not get carried away and blindly dismiss an inteli-report, which might or might not be a little exaggerated. A good strategist should be prepared for the worst, at all time. You and all who loves pakistan must admit that she's not in best of shape, specially with the enemies within the country and most importantly, US hovering over its territory in the so called War on Terrorism. Historically speaking, US presence has mostly brought civil wars, unrest and anarchy to all nations around the globe. US is a good friend only till its physical presence is not there. Therefore, GOP (I know people here mostly is not quite fond of the present regime, but then, it’s the elected govt. just like the Bush administration most of us hate. So whatever is to be done is to be done by people's chosen GOP only) has to rebuff all these enemy factors aggressively and decisively at once. You can ignore what US think or will do in Pak, but you must contemplate on what Pak itself can do to make things better immediately. It has been going on far too long and if not dealt decisively, does have the potential of getting out of hand. Personally, Pakistan is much closer to my heart and I, for sure, consider it to be my sibling, with whom, we, unfortunately, do not get along well since we had decided to live separately. It would hurt me a lot if US does an Iraq/Afghanistan in Pak, which, by the way, is a remote possibility. However, as I said, the best strategist should plan for the worst. You will do Pakistan a world of good by just appreciating its complicated set of problems and their probable fallouts for a start.

 

[Screaming Skull]

Pakistan militants strengthen in heartland

By CHRIS BRUMMITT, Associated Press Writer Chris Brummitt, Associated Press Writer – Mon Mar 23,

BAHAWALPUR, Pakistan – The compound bore no sign. Residents referred to it simply as the school for "jihadi fighters," speaking in awe of the expensive horses stabled within its high walls — and the extremists who rode them bareback in the dusty fields around it. In classrooms nearby, teachers drilled boys as young as 8 in an uncompromising brand of Islam that called for holy war against enemies of the faith. Sitting cross-legged on the floor of the Dar-ul-uloom Madina school, they rocked back and forth as they recited sections of the Quran, Islam's holy book.

Both facilities are run by an al-Qaida-linked terror network, Jaish-e-Mohammed, in the heart of Pakistan, hundreds of miles from the Afghan border that is the global focus of the fight against terrorism. Their existence raises questions about the government's pledge to crack down on terror groups accused of high-profile attacks in Pakistan and India, and ties to global terror plots.

Authorities say militant groups in Punjab are increasingly sending out fighters to Afghanistan and the border region, adding teeth to an insurgency spreading across Pakistan that has stirred fears about the country's stability and the safety of its nuclear weapons.

The horse-riding facility, discovered by The Associated Press during a visit to this impoverished region where miles of dusty, wind-swept desert spread out in all directions, had never before been seen by journalists.

There, would-be jihadi fighters practice martial arts, archery and horse-riding skills and get religious instruction, according to a former member of Jaish-e-Mohammed, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he did not want to be identified by ex-comrades or authorities.

Horse-riding is considered by many extremists to be especially merit-worthy because the pursuit is referenced in Islamic teachings on jihad.

Pakistan has seen a string of attacks, including the ambush this month of Sri Lankan cricket players in the Punjab capital, Lahore, and a truce with extremists in Swat less than 100 miles from the capital, Islamabad, that have heightened alarm in Washington and other Western capitals that the country is slipping into chaos.

Amid the near daily onslaught of violence, the country's president and opposition leader have been locked in a bitter political dispute that has exposed the weakness of the civilian government less than a year after it took over following years of military rule by Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

Pakistan outlawed Jaish in 2001, but has done little to enforce the ban, partly out of fear of a backlash but also because it and other groups in Punjab were created by the powerful intelligence agencies as a proxy force in Afghanistan and Kashmir, a territory disputed with rival India.

"You can say Jaish is running its business as usual," said Mohammed Amir Rana, from Pakistan's Institute for Peace Studies, which tracks militant groups. "The military wants to keep alive its strategic options in Kashmir. The trouble is you cannot restrict the militants to one area. You cannot keep control of them."

Apart from the martial arts and horse riding center, Jaish militants openly operate two imposing boarding schools in Bahawalpur, a dusty town of 500,000 people. Food, lodging and tuition are free for their 500 students, paid for by donations from sympathizers across the country.

A top police officer said the schools and other hard-line establishments in the area were used to recruit teens and young men for jihadi activities in Pakistan's northwest or in Afghanistan. He spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

A guard wielding an automatic weapon stood at the gate of the Usman-o-Ali school and turned a visiting AP team away. But the head teacher at nearby Dar-ul-uloom Madina school allowed the group a tour and an interview.

Ataur Rehman said none of the students were allowed to be recruited for jihad while studying there, but added that he could not stop them joining up after they graduated.

"We have made it clear: our focus is teaching, teaching and teaching," he said in his damp threadbare office as a student served sweet, milky tea and biscuits. "But if someone does something independently, we cannot be held responsible."

In classrooms, students ranging in age from 8 to their mid-20s sat shoulder-to-shoulder along wooden planks as they chanted Quranic verses; one of the youngest boys broke off briefly from his studies and grinned at a visiting reporter.

In the kitchen, men stirred huge pots of chicken curry, washed potatoes and made fresh bread. Outside, workers mixed cement for a new cafeteria and dormitory.

The walled complex with the horse stables was on the outskirts of town, and from the road, laborers could be seen working on a building toward the rear of the compound.

Home to more than half of Pakistan's 160 million people, Punjab's large cities are centers of wealth and political power, but in towns like Bahawalpur, poverty is widespread.

Last year, the governor of Pakistan's border region warned that insurgent commanders and suicide bombers were increasingly coming from Punjab. Afghan police officers also say Punjabi fighters are becoming common there.

"Pakistani citizens, and especially Punjabis, are the Taliban trainers in the area for bomb-making," said Asadullah Sherzad, police chief in Afghanistan's insurgency-wracked Helmand province, adding there are around 100 Punjabis at any one time in that area of Afghanistan.

A police officer in Bahawalpur said Jaish members were not believed to be training with weapons in the town's schools and other facilities, adding that law enforcement agencies had infiltrated the group. He spoke on condition of anonymity because sections of the government and security agencies disagreed on the need to crack down on the group.

Jaish is believed to have been formed in 2000 by hard-line cleric Masood Azhar after he was freed from an Indian prison in exchange for passengers on a hijacked Indian Airlines flight that landed in Taliban-controlled southern Afghanistan the same year.

Azhar was born in Bahawalpur, though the government says his current whereabouts are not known. A small stall outside the Usman-o-Ali school sells his speeches and writings.

"When my brother's blood is shed in Afghanistan, when he is a victim of bombs, then does America expect us to offer it flowers?" he proclaims in a recording of an undated speech. "America you should listen... We will not let you live in peace so long as we are alive."

In 2007, British militant suspect Rashid Rauf was seized at the Usman-o-Ali school on suspicion of links to a failed plot to blow up jetliners over the Atlantic in 2007. Rauf, who escaped Pakistani custody and was reported to have been killed last year in a U.S. missile strike close to the border, is related by marriage to Azhar.

Jaish members and leaders are also suspected in the killing of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in Karachi in 2002, and in a bombing the same year in the city that killed 11 French engineers.

Jaish and other groups still recruit in villages in southern Punjab, according to the ex-Jaish member and another former militant who fought in Afghanistan.

The Usman-o-Ali school "requires each student to attend some sort of jihad training or practice each year," the ex-Jaish operative said, adding that the hot months of June and July were the prime recruiting period.

 

[Screaming Skull]

Terrorism has engulfed a major portion of Pakistan. The poor and unemployed youth of the country are being either indoctrinated or forced to fight someone else s battle and in the process give up their own lives.

I wonder how Pakistan understands the meaning of the word 'Failed State'. Either Pakistan conveniently ignores the problems it faces today or simply wish them away. I would like to ask my Pakistani friends if they had ever imagined themselves to be in this state a couple of decades back? Do they expect this menace of terrorism to vanish by simply ignoring it or blaming US and India for all their problems.

Even if one agrees that all the problems in Pakistan are a creation of external elements, the question that still disturbs most people is what has ur government or army done to solve it? How has ur government restricted the recruitment of ur own people by some lunatic mullahs or even external agencies for carrying out unlawful activities within and outside Pakistan?

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Terrorism has engulfed a major portion of Pakistan. The poor and unemployed youth of the country are being either indoctrinated or forced to fight someone else s battle and in the process give up their own lives.

I wonder how Pakistan understands the meaning of the word 'Failed State'. Either Pakistan conveniently ignores the problems it faces today or simply wish them away. I would like to ask my Pakistani friends if they had ever imagined themselves to be in this state a couple of decades back? Do they expect this menace of terrorism to vanish by simply ignoring it or blaming US and India for all their problems.

Even if one agrees that all the problems in Pakistan are a creation of external elements, the question that still disturbs most people is what has ur government or army done to solve it? How has ur government restricted the recruitment of ur own people by some lunatic mullahs or even external agencies for carrying out unlawful activities within and outside Pakistan?

Mr. Skull I see your point but Pakistan is faced with the backlash of many years of missed opportunities, fighting other people's war for the common good of the region and the inability of our political institutions to model themselves after the disciplined and efficient method of operation of our armed forces. Our government can't possibly keep an eye on everyone, and even dating back to a few centuries and earlier ago, Pakistan was a crossroads for many cultures and peoples so the flow of individuals is hard to control (a big problem yes) and as Pakistani's we must ask our military to defend our borders beyond just military threats.

But please, going so far as to label Pakistan a ''failed'' state is only pandering to the extremist elements that wish for it to be so. You must understand that Pakistan must stand on its feet for not only the well being of your nation, but for the globe as a whole. Those who wish to destabilize this nation and have it deemed a failed state are either clueless to the repercussions or have pre determined agendas to dismantle institutions that took many lives and years to put in place. Mullahs are not the biggest problem, because many hide behind this clever cloak, but as a whole Pakistan is facing a mixture of threats that should be taken care of in a diplomatic way as we have seen that military adventures result in further problems within the country, however force is always an option for those who wish to exploit Pakistan's apparent weaknesses.

We don't want war with our neighbours either, much less with the western world. However people fail to realize the intricacies of Pakistan's current situation that stemmed from much before Sept. 11 2001.

 

[Screaming Skull]

Mr. Skull I see your point but Pakistan is faced with the backlash of many years of missed opportunities, fighting other people's war for the common good of the region and the inability of our political institutions to model themselves after the disciplined and efficient method of operation of our armed forces. Our government can't possibly keep an eye on everyone, and even dating back to a few centuries and earlier ago, Pakistan was a crossroads for many cultures and peoples so the flow of individuals is hard to control (a big problem yes) and as Pakistani's we must ask our military to defend our borders beyond just military threats.

But please, going so far as to label Pakistan a ''failed'' state is only pandering to the extremist elements that wish for it to be so. You must understand that Pakistan must stand on its feet for not only the well being of your nation, but for the globe as a whole. Those who wish to destabilize this nation and have it deemed a failed state are either clueless to the repercussions or have pre determined agendas to dismantle institutions that took many lives and years to put in place. Mullahs are not the biggest problem, because many hide behind this clever cloak, but as a whole Pakistan is facing a mixture of threats that should be taken care of in a diplomatic way as we have seen that military adventures result in further problems within the country, however force is always an option for those who wish to exploit Pakistan's apparent weaknesses.

We don't want war with our neighbours either, much less with the western world. However people fail to realize the intricacies of Pakistan's current situation that stemmed from much before Sept. 11 2001.

I am completely aware of the threat that Pakistan faces today and I too agree with you that force is not an option at all. However, you must also understand that many developments within Pakistan are unique to Pakistan.
Most of these developments disgust the world community more than anger them. How often does one hear about peace deals with gun wielding militants? Why should the world community not believe that the militants are more powerful than the Pakistani army if this is the precedent set by the government? Why shouldn't one believe that SWAT might lead to a bigger annexation of Pakistan by the militants?

The fact is that the GoP has not done anything to assuage the fears of the world community. The world sympathizes with Pakistan when it says that it is a 'victim of terror' but at the same time it also paints a helpless picture of Pakistan. Again I ask you why shouldn't the world believe that a country which is in such a helpless situation won't 'fail'.

By ignoring and wising away your problems you only invite more trouble. When faced with a problem I would expect one to solve it rather than dig out the source and point fingers.

Couple of decades ago I personally didn't feel that Pakistan would come to this state. I admired Pakistan as a self-sufficient and strong country. But today things have changed and Pakistan is reluctant to accept this.

I hope things change for good coz I still cant predict the situation in a couple of decades from now.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

I am completely aware of the threat that Pakistan faces today and I too agree with you that force is not an option at all. However, you must also understand that many developments within Pakistan are unique to Pakistan.
Most of these developments disgust the world community more than anger them. How often does one hear about peace deals with gun wielding militants? Why should the world community not believe that the militants are more powerful than the Pakistani army if this is the precedent set by the government? Why shouldn't one believe that SWAT might lead to a bigger annexation of Pakistan by the militants?

The fact is that the GoP has not done anything to assuage the fears of the world community. The world sympathizes with Pakistan when it says that it is a 'victim of terror' but at the same time it also paints a helpless picture of Pakistan. Again I ask you why shouldn't the world believe that a country which is in such a helpless situation won't 'fail'.

By ignoring and wising away your problems you only invite more trouble. When faced with a problem I would expect one to solve it rather than dig out the source and point fingers.

Couple of decades ago I personally didn't feel that Pakistan would come to this state. I admired Pakistan as a self-sufficient and strong country. But today things have changed and Pakistan is reluctant to accept this.

I hope things change for good coz I still cant predict the situation in a couple of decades from now.

There is no doubt in my mind that if the armed forces wanted to, they could wipe out the entirety of the militancy. However certain regions have a deeprooted history in arming themselves and since this is our own soil we are talking about, we just can't treat everyone as an A2G target, there are sentiments and loyalties to the state at stake. We must carefully unwravel the various knots before real progress can be made, and as I stated earlier, military action is not deserved for every problem. Yes we might have lost a thousand or so comrades in this struggle to quell militancy, but we have almost a million more waiting for revenge. It would not make sense to wage eternal war in one's own nation for a problem that can be thwarted using other means.

I am sorry if the present state of my nation disgusts the world, but these disgusted nations should take a look at their own individual histories before making broad judgments and understand the fact that Pakistan is only 62 years old which at foundation received the short end of the stick so to speak.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

my government's reaction will have to suffice as a reflection of my concern.

Likewise here, with a former COAS carrying far more weight than a Lt. Colonel.

I can demand as I wish to satisfy my personal interests

My point being that we do not have the sort of incontrovertible evidence, that you have demanded for validating Pakistani accusations, to back up your allegations of Pakistani complicity either.

Ummm...where Pastus live?

But we don't have an 'Englishtan' or 'Caucasistan' do we? NWFP/FATA, Pashtun provinces/regions of Afghanistan and Pakistan - a variety of more accurate and appropriate terms exist.

The current GoA and India are getting along famously

err..that's the point - when they were getting along famously in the past the GoA was sponsoring terrorism and separatist movements in Pakistan, with encouragement from the Indians.

Many of the critical and powerful players on the GoA scene, like the Afghan intelligence chief, are former allies of India from when the NA was a proxy of India's. Afghan irridentism and Indian hostility to Pakistan (the basis for Indian intervention in Afghanistan and support for regimes hostile to Pakistan) have little to do with the cold war, though the cold war played into the dynamic with the Soviet interventions in Afghanistan.

A fly buzzing an elephant in your history compared to Kashmir, E. Pakistan, India, and Baluchistan.

The common element in all of those being India, with the Afghans, and lesser still the Soviets, linking up in some events.

Indeed, were it the interest of some to expand Afghanistan geographically. I think that the interest here, though, is to shift pashtu DEMOGRAPHICS eastward and create a more modest plurality much less majority within Afghanistan.

How can you push Pashtu demographics eastward without a massive refugees crises? Pakistan is trying to push back the existing refugees, let alone take in enough to alter the demographics.

 

[Proud2Indian]

There is no doubt in my mind that if the armed forces wanted to, they could wipe out the entirety of the militancy. However certain regions have a deeprooted history in arming themselves and since this is our own soil we are talking about, we just can't treat everyone as an A2G target, there are sentiments and loyalties to the state at stake. We must carefully unwravel the various knots before real progress can be made, and as I stated earlier, military action is not deserved for every problem. Yes we might have lost a thousand or so comrades in this struggle to quell militancy, but we have almost a million more waiting for revenge. It would not make sense to wage eternal war in one's own nation for a problem that can be thwarted using other means.

I am sorry if the present state of my nation disgusts the world, but these disgusted nations should take a look at their own individual histories before making broad judgments and understand the fact that Pakistan is only 62 years old which at foundation received the short end of the stick so to speak.

KB... I am not an expert to say that the way Pakistan is handling SWAT is wrong. I will only speak from what I have seen in India. We have seen many insurgencies each one of which had potential to break any country. We succeeded in overcoming them by
1) Showing militants that ans for their bullet will be given by bullet.
2) Once govt had upper hand, it allowed the political process to take front seat. This gave avenue where people can raise there grievances and look for peaceful solution, which again alienate the militants from their support base, which is the most important point.

For militants to gave up violence means giving up power, which is difficult to happen on its own. The only way for situation to improve is if support base dwindled.

What Pakistan is trying for this is untested way (I don't think this has been tried anywhere else) and will be very interesting to watch for future conflict resolution.

tx

 

[Screaming Skull]

There is no doubt in my mind that if the armed forces wanted to, they could wipe out the entirety of the militancy. However certain regions have a deeprooted history in arming themselves and since this is our own soil we are talking about, we just can't treat everyone as an A2G target, there are sentiments and loyalties to the state at stake. We must carefully unwravel the various knots before real progress can be made, and as I stated earlier, military action is not deserved for every problem. Yes we might have lost a thousand or so comrades in this struggle to quell militancy, but we have almost a million more waiting for revenge. It would not make sense to wage eternal war in one's own nation for a problem that can be thwarted using other means.

I am sorry if the present state of my nation disgusts the world, but these disgusted nations should take a look at their own individual histories before making broad judgments and understand the fact that Pakistan is only 62 years old which at foundation received the short end of the stick so to speak.

You are not getting my point bro! All I am saying is 'do the needful' to the best of your abilities, no matter what it takes. Striking a peace deal with these militants is an insult to the 'thousand or so comrades' who died fighting the same barbaric, lunatic men. Extending an olive branch to these guys is like raising the white flag.

The problem with GoP is that they are not able to take a firm stand on the numerous issues concerning them. On the one hand the GoP says that terrorists have no nationality and on the other hand it is reluctant to fight them because they are Pakistani nationals. They are always looking to live another day by blaming either India or the US. Where will it lead you. How long are you going to get away with this attitude?

I am not trying to score a point here but after Mumbai attacks, though India blamed Pakistan, the Home Minister of India resigned, the Chief Minister and deputy CM of Maharashtra resigned, the PM apologized to the whole nation in the parliament. Consequently they remained committed to their point and soon the real culprits were identified. I dont see any such actions from the Pakistani side. All that GoP does is blame India and that s it! No accountability whatsoever. Even the people of Pakistan dont demand an answer.

Anyway, this a deep rooted problem which is not going to be solved overnight but the GoP will at least facilitate the resolution by accepting the realities rather than just blame external forces.

Maybe it is too difficult to completely eliminate terrorism from the world but the GoP will do a great service to the world by at least ensuring that their citizens are not 'used' by anyone. This will be possible only if you improve the standard of life of these poor unemployed youth and provide better livelihood to them. It wont be wrong to say that many young Pakistani nationals choose to become terrorist out of desperation more than anything else. Terrorism has become like a career option for many of these guys.

Nothing is more precious than ones own life and when one chooses to give it away so easily as terrorist does, we have to understand that the state has somewhere or the other faltered in taking care of its own citizens.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

All that GoP does is blame India and that s it!

Skreaming Skull,

The GoP has not official blamed India for any of this - that is a patent lie.

The GoI has however blamed Pakistani institutions and Pakistan all along, so lets get of this nonsensical 'India is taking responsibility and Pakistan is not' diatribe. India has been doing nothing but tossing mud everywhere in the hope that it sticks.

Get off your high horse - earlier I warned Pakistani members form going off on emotional rants, the same applies to the Indian members as well. Post constructively and analytically, not with distortions and broad invalid generalizations.

 

[Lockheed F-16]

One question please:


WASHINGTON: The Pakistani state could collapse within six months if immediate steps are not taken to remedy the situation, warned a top adviser to the US Central Command.

David Kilcullen, who advises CENTCOM commander Gen. David H. Petraeus on the war on terror, urged US policymakers to focus their attention on Pakistan as a failure there could have devastating consequences for the entire international community.

In an interview with The Washington Post, Kilcullen, who is credited with the success of the US troop surge strategy in Iraq, warned that if Pakistan went out of control, it would ‘dwarf’ all the crises in the world today. “Pakistan hands down. No doubt,” he said when asked to name the central front in the war against terror.

Asked to explain why he thought Pakistan was so important, Kilcullen said: “Pakistan has 173 million people, 100 nuclear weapons, an army bigger than the US Army, and al-Qaeda headquarters sitting right there in the two-thirds of the country that the government doesn’t control.”

He claimed that the Pakistani military and police and intelligence service did not follow the civilian government. “Were now reaching the point where within one to six months we could see the collapse of the Pakistani state, also because of the global financial crisis, which just exacerbates all these problems,” he said. “The collapse of Pakistan, al-Qaeda acquiring nuclear weapons, an extremist takeover — that would dwarf everything we’ve seen in the war on terror today.”



I think that's wrong!?