US breathes life into a new cold war

[Nelson]

Oh dear, so now you welcome US presence in Asia??
India's true feeling come out after all.


So much for that 'Asian unity' against the west.

US is not present in India, its present in Pakistan! You've already welcomed them. Where's the true feeling gone?

 

[Vinod2070]

Still upset about Pak-China relationship, eh?

No worries. It tells us all we need to know about India's vision of 'Asian unity'.

Just knowing how much it burns you up gives us immense pleasure!

I know, negative identity tends to do that to people.

A tendency to hallucinate just makes it all the better.

A high like no other!

Only problem is, at some time one has to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[newdelhinsa]

Like you said, south Asian countries want a balance between India and China. Balance is the key word.
Developereo

Indeed.

And Pakistan is a bad example, who has bitter rivalry with India and has further disrupted the balance by selling its self cheaply first to USA and then to China. Rest of the South Asian countries including India are doing well by selling themselves at better prices. See the difference?

You accuse China of 'using' other countries. You accuse others of worshipping China. It does not occur to Indians that every country has the right to look out for their own self-interests. Developereo

Sorry for interruption.
You were the one accusing China undercutting Indian influence in south Asia. Now you are blaming Indians?

Cheers
Please carry on.

 

[Developereo]

A list would have been a better substitute.

The posts by Indians in this very thread are proof enough.

On the one hand, you guys tell us that China is 'using' smaller countries, and then you guys go into damage control mode by saying 'oh, yeah, Asian unity will take time if we al get along'.

It's quite a comedy show to watch you guys try and recover from your slipups.

I asked for facts and all you have is this!

Do you deny your own statements?

And this is not even counting posts by Indians attacking Chinese, Pakistani, Sri Lankan and Bangladeshi members.

BTW, do you know there is a difference between facts and opinions? I care more for the former.

The facts in question are the opinions expressed by Indian politicians, generals and media against other Asian countries.

Those speak much louder than any lame damage control attempts here...

And your predictable descent into personal attacks and vitriol will serve as an admission that you have lost the discussion,

 

[Vinod2070]

The subject here is Asian unity. China is part of Asia, the US isn't.

Any cooperation with China is within the realm of 'Asian unity'. Unlike the US.

But you are the major non Nato ally of USA, not India!

You were the most allied ally, you fought evil Godless kaffir communists with them (oh the delicious irony )!

You guys just let slip out the fact by mistake that you view China as an adversary.

I would pass this as hallucination but it is actually desperation.

A desperation that is just too visible, trying to twist facts to suit your agenda and paranoia.

Better don that damage control hat once again and issue statements about 'hindi chini bhai bhai'. Yeah, mate, Asian unity all the way....

We promise we'll ignore your slipups where you justify and validate US meddling in Asia to 'counter China'.

As I said, Pakistan is a minor player in this game. It thinks that it stands to benefit from Indo-Sino hostility by seeking rent that it has so far got from the USA. Whether this works in future is for us to wait and see.

Of course, the very mention of Asian unity has you firing on all cylinders about why it can't work. The insecurity is just too visible.

Why, because of India of course.

How is that? The posts of Indians on the thread prove it.

 

[Vinod2070]

The posts by Indians in this very thread are proof enough.

On the one hand, you guys tell us that China is 'using' smaller countries, and then you guys go into damage control mode by saying 'oh, yeah, Asian unity will take time if we al get along'.

It's quite a comedy show to watch you guys try and recover from your slipups.

Do you deny your own statements?

And this is not even counting posts by Indians attacking Chinese, Pakistani, Sri Lankan and Bangladeshi members.

The facts in question are the opinions expressed by Indian politicians, generals and media against other Asian countries.

Those speak much louder than any lame damage control attempts here...

And your predictable descent into personal attacks and vitriol will serve as an admission that you have lost the discussion,

So effectively you have nothing.

Case closed!

 

[Developereo]

US is not present in India, its present in Pakistan! You've already welcomed them. Where's the true feeling gone?

The US is 'in' a lot of countries. The debate here is what is the intent.
In the case of Pakistan, it is a relationship of necessity where the US conducts its wars, and the Pakistani elite get their money/toys. The US is not invited in to disrupt the so-called Asian unity -- which is the subject of this debate.

Indeed.

And Pakistan is a bad example, who has bitter rivalry with India and has further disrupted the balance by selling its self cheaply first to USA and then to China. Rest of the South Asian countries including India are doing well by selling themselves at better prices. See the difference?

Pathetic Indian mindset putting all the blame on Pakistan. Funny how the other south Asian countries are not particularly enamored with India. It must all be thier fault also -- leaving poor India as an innocent victim of all these nasty neighbors!

As for the Pak-China relationship, we know how much it burns you guys up. We love it.

You were the one accusing China undercutting Indian influence in south Asia. Now you are blaming Indians?

I said south Asian countries invited China to keep a check on Indian hegemony. You have to wonder why all of India's neighbors act that way towards India.

 

[Vinod2070]

The "all of India's neighbors" is a canard that just doesn't stand to scrutiny.

The relations will all other neighbors are good or at least decent. Many Pakistanis just tend to get carried away by their own rhetoric or plain lies.

 

[Nelson]

The US is 'in' a lot of countries. The debate here is what is the intent.
In the case of Pakistan, it is a relationship of necessity where the US conducts its wars, and the Pakistani elite get their money/toys. The US is not invited in to disrupt the so-called Asian unity -- which is the subject of this debate.

The US is 'in' lot of countries but 'not' in India! (India is not Iraq, Afghanistan, or Pakistan where US can just get IN) As far as intention goes, our intention would be for unity ( if at all we consider calling them ) and NOT for money / toys! That's the difference. So from now on, you're not allowed to say that we 'welcome' someone and are happy if someone is present in Asia!

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

It sure does. Indian desperation and insecurity in trying to belittle other countries' relationship with anyone outside south Asia.

From the Indian viewpoint, as I said, only India is allowed to maintain strategic relationships. When other countries do so, they are accused of worshipping or being used.

You guys really need to rein in your insecurities.



No. Most Pakistanis mention China only because it is the surest way to stop Indian chest beating.



Don't leave India out of it. Don't be so modest.



This whole thread is about a supposed cold war -- Asia against the US. My whole presmise is that there is no such thing as 'Asian unity'. If you agree with me, then so much the better.

Its not insecurity , its more like real politik .Pakistan gets jittery thinking about India -Afghan relations and Indo-US relations .

China gets jittery about India-US and India- Jap relations , same thing for India. It is the truth I won't deny it but all i am saying is it does not apply to India alone but to almost every country in the world.

About the second part , No, why should India be happy about USA's presence in east asia or South-east Asia , it doesn't help us in any way . Don't put words in my mouth just to make your point valid which it clearly is not .

About the third part yes i am not in favour of any anti West Asian unity but yes in terms of economy , trade and other stuff it is a very good idea which i hope materializes because this bloc mentality in terms of military can take the World into a third world war which atleast i don't wish to see , I don't know about you. Neither do i think it is possible because we have way too many issues with each other. Look at south Asia , East Asia ,Middle -East etc.I hope we are in agreement on this .

 

[newdelhinsa]

Developereo
Pathetic Indian mindset putting all the blame on Pakistan. Funny how the other south Asian countries are not particularly enamored with India. It must all be thier fault also -- leaving poor India as an innocent victim of all these nasty neighbors!

I hate when people go personal
Loosing debate?
Let me try going personal.
Your English sentences need revising.

Never mind, I have answered your all queries before but you are trying to sledge mud on India with non-academic taunts. As you have mentioned before that every country make choices per their national interests. But by seeing Pakistan’s present circumstances one can say that the choices Pakistan has made were not that good.

Indian has all the right to blame Pakistan but not all the blames. I said in my previous post that all south Asians countries are selling themselves but at better prices. You seem to be bogged down by many posters quoting you. Therefore I am going to give you benefit of doubt that you missed my criticism about my own country in the heat.

Your rants about Sri Lanka and others choosing China over India is again like stuck up record when I have already mentioned that India is eating what she can digest. I can go in details about each and every south Asian country and its relationship with India and China. But I will keep that discussion for some new enthusiast for future not for you who understand things better than others but has opted an agenda today to bash India for some reason, knowingly.

As for the Pak-China relationship, we know how much it burns you guys up. We love it. :

It’s a one sided love and such love is going to make you more isolated in future. China’s advice to Pakistan is something more to do with getting in terms with India. I am sure you are aware of it but your compulsion of defeating Indian assertions has hampered your rational thinking, I think.

I said south Asian countries invited China to keep a check on Indian hegemony. You have to wonder why all of India's neighbours act that way towards India.

Nobody invited anyone. Wake up this is a multi-polar world. See, even your president is learning quite quick; travelling up to Baltic Sea to crack some deals.

 

[silko]

Did I say anything otherwise? Where did Israel come into this anyway?

no, since you said that india has good relation to nato i thought israel must have better since it is closer to those countries and that they have USA!

 

[Infiltrator]

I don't understand how being pro-China is anti-American. American sovereignty or American existence is not being directly threaten by China.

For some reason, you correlate anti-American, pro-China views mainly with China challenging our sovereignty when that is not even an issue. You can be anti-American and pro-China in many other ways.

Being pro-China is not anti-American in itself but being more supportive of the "rise of China" than the interests of the U.S. is. China may not be threatening our sovereignty or existence but they disagree with us on many key issues and play a role in many of our global interests. As quoted from article below, China does "force countries to decide between Washington and Beijing" at times. It's not really possible to deny this.

To put it blatantly, from what I've seen, you seem to care more for the "rise of China" and its interests than you do of the U.S. Furthermore, you being either Chinese or Chinese-American causes further speculation in your loyalty and support. Although, that is but a mere secondary factor because there are many Chinese-Americans who are pro-American.

Quoted from here:

http://cjip.oxfordjournals.org/content/2/4/457.full.pdf


Also, I just briefly went through your post history and I'd say any of your posts involving China were pro-China. Not necessarily anti-American but they still mean something. I'm may be wrong in saying this but, in my opinion, your loyalty to is China and not the country where you currently reside and make your home. That would pro-China, anti-American in itself.

With people like you in America, we would not be able to coexist with China's rise.

This post, in my opinion, describes your attitude. If you had to make a choice in any issue regarding China vs. U.S, you would choose China every time. It "seems" like I've already mentioned, that your more interested in the rise of China than the domestic and global interests of the U.S.

 

[gambit]

For some reason, you correlate anti-American, pro-China views mainly with China challenging our sovereignty when that is not even an issue. You can be anti-American and pro-China in many other ways.

Being pro-China is not anti-American in itself but being more supportive of the "rise of China" than the interests of the U.S. is. China may not be threatening our sovereignty or existence but they disagree with us on many key issues and play a role in many of our global interests. As quoted from article below, China does" force countries to decide between Washington and Beijing" at times. It's not really possible to deny this.

To put it blatantly, from what I've seen, you seem to care more for the "rise of China" and its interests than you do of the U.S. Furthermore, you being either Chinese or Chinese-American causes further speculation in your loyalty and support. Although, that is but a mere secondary factor because there are many Chinese-Americans are pro-American.

Quoted from here:

http://cjip.oxfordjournals.org/content/2/4/457.full.pdf

According to the Chinese here, ALL Chinese, regardless of birth origins and citizenship, are supposed to place racial/ethnic ties over all considerations...

How many Viet Kieu have been arrested trying to funnel information and technology back to Vietnam? None, because they're all ashamed.

But Hua Qiao? Many have been arrested for spying or even fighting for China since 1950, and get this: Not 1 was from mainland China.

Taiwanese, Chinese Americans, Chinese Malaysians, would sacrifice themselves for mainland China. In 1960's Chinese Malaysian fought for communism, how many Viet Kieu would fight for communism? Which Viet Kieu get arrested trying to funnel information to Vietnam?

No problem but you know, the US will still welcome them with open arms. Why? Because Chinese Americans have statistically higher IQs and incomes than average with lower crime rates. So no one cares.

BTW, they are arrested but almost never convicted, including Larry Chin and Lee Wen Ho (note these are all Taiwanese names!)

They are free to do whatever they want and think however they want as are Vietnamese Americans. Yet there are also Chinese Americans helping China, how many Vietnamese Americans help Vietnam? Even if Vietnam recieves help, can the backwards regime take advantage of this help?

Hard to take those words out of context.

 

[CardSharp]

Infiltrator had an articulate and rational point to make and it's something worth discussing for those who may feel just at home in two countries, but then you had to ruin it with your Vietcong childhood sob story, xenophobia, paranoia craziness.