US breathes life into a new cold war

[CardSharp]

Hard to take those words out of context.

Below_feezing is a citizen of the PRC, and isn't subject to your crazy MacCarthism. He's a commie livinging in a commie state.

According to the Chinese here, ALL Chinese, regardless of birth origins and citizenship, are supposed to place racial/ethnic ties over all considerations...

Can't even accuse people in a way that passes logic. You're really are crazy.

 

[Infiltrator]

According to the Chinese here, ALL Chinese, regardless of birth origins and citizenship, are supposed to place racial/ethnic ties over all considerations...

That's anti-American in itself. Our country is based on being American before anything else. Ethnicity, place of birth, etc. are something an American never places before being an American. Our country allows its citizens to support other countries over the U.S. but that doesn't make their views any less anti-American.


In regards to Below_feezing, he's from PRC so I take his points on overseas Chinese and overseas Taiwanese with a grain of salt.

 

[gambit]

He had a articulate and rational point to make and it's something worth discussing for those who may feel just at home in two countries, but then you had to ruin it with your traumatized childhood, xenophobia, paranoia craziness.

Say what? Where did I even implied that his arguments were 'irrational'? Advocating racial/ethnic loyalty over citizenship is a very rational stance. If anything, your friend should be applauded for making known his view that all Chinese, regardless of birth origins, are potential traitors.

 

[LetsGetRowdy]

Say what? Where did I even implied that his arguments were 'irrational'? Advocating racial/ethnic loyalty over citizenship is a very rational stance. If anything, your friend should be applauded for making known his view that all Chinese, regardless of birth origins, are potential traitors.

Go back to Vietnam.

 

[Huan]

For some reason, you correlate anti-American, pro-China views mainly with China challenging our sovereignty when that is not even an issue. You can be anti-American and pro-China in many other ways.

To put it blatantly, from what I've seen, you seem to care more for the "rise of China" and its interests than you do of the U.S. Furthermore, you being either Chinese or Chinese-American causes further speculation in your loyalty and support. Although, that is but a mere secondary factor because there are many Chinese-Americans who are pro-American.

Quoted from here:

http://cjip.oxfordjournals.org/content/2/4/457.full.pdf


Also, I just briefly went through your post history and I'd say any of your posts involving China were pro-China. Not necessarily anti-American but they still mean something. I'm may be wrong in saying this but, in my opinion, your loyalty to is China and not the country where you currently reside and make your home. That would pro-China, anti-American in itself.




This post, in my opinion, describes your attitude. If you had to make a choice in any issue regarding China vs. U.S, you would choose China every time. It "seems" like I've already mentioned, that your more interested in the rise of China than the domestic and global interests of the U.S.

Honestly Infiltrator, what is there left to admire about the current U.S. domestic and foreign situation in midst of our major economic crisis? Since graduation from high school (which is very pro-Bush and conservative by the way), I went from being an extreme admirer of the United States as a whole with personal support of the invasion and regime change in Iraq and Afghanistan to being super depressed. This is after years of broadening my view of the world and reading into some history of foreign countries, mostly China. Up to this point, from what I see in the United States as a whole, is growing homelessness, crumbling infrastructure, banks and Wall Street screwing the American people, growing corruption of politicians, TSA molesting citizens, less-restricted search and seizures, more cop beating incidents, record number of Americans in jail than any other country, severe unemployment that's actually rising. I have repeatedly voted in the national elections since early 2000's and the country still has not gotten any better. Maybe I have become too self-informed about my country, but this is the ultimate impression that has accumulated over the years.

Eventually, I started using China as a reference model to compare to the United States. And the result is that I see China on a major path to tremendous improvement and prosperity while the U.S. is on the path to severe economic ruin and plutocracy. Can you believe it, the no. 1 richest and biggest economy in the world has record number of Americans on food stamps. What does that tell you? C'mon, you talk about loyalty towards the United States? That is fine, but it keeps bringing along continuous disappointment and anger about where we are heading as a country.

As a consequence, I can't help but see this kind of contrast with China, which inevitably turned my admiration towards the East. ^^

 

[CardSharp]

@ Huan to be trite, the US has political freedom whereas China does not. Now there isn't much to admire about the narrow, paranoid, exclusive, definition of freedom that Americans have adapted (see the video in my signature) but it is better then the strained and often non-existent political dialogue between communist party and the people of China.

 

[Infiltrator]

Honestly Infiltrator, what is there left to admire about the current U.S. domestic and foreign situation in midst of our major economic crisis? Since graduation from high school (which is very pro-Bush and conservative by the way), I went from being an extreme admirer of the United States as a whole with personal support of the invasion and regime change in Iraq and Afghanistan to being super depressed. This is after years of broadening my view of the world and reading into some history of foreign countries, mostly China. Up to this point, from what I see in the United States as a whole, is growing homelessness, crumbling infrastructure, banks and Wall Street screwing the American people, growing corruption of politicians, TSA molesting citizens, less-restricted search and seizures, more cop beating incidents, record number of Americans in jail than any other country, severe unemployment that's actually rising. I have repeatedly voted in the national elections since early 2000's and the country still has not gotten any better. Maybe I have become too self-informed about my country, but this is the ultimate impression that has accumulated over the years.

Eventually, I started using China as a reference model to compare to the United States. And the result is that I see China on a major path to improvement and prosperity while the U.S. is on the path to severe economic ruin and plutocracy. Can you believe it, the no. 1 richest and biggest economy in the world has record number of Americans on food stamps. What does that tell you? C'mon, you talk about loyalty towards the United States? That is fine, but it keeps bringing along continuous disappointment and anger about where we are heading as a country.

As a consequence, I can't help but see this kind of contrast with China, which inevitably turned my admiration towards the East. ^^

I see them as separate issues. Loyalty to our country is different than being disappointed in the direction we're heading all our current faults. There may me some correlation between the two but I will always support this country which has given my family so many opportunities and a sense of belonging.

I'd like to add though, I was raised in California where the environment is very anti-Bush and very liberal. That is how the bay area is for the most part. So, we see our country from different perspectives to some extent. I assume you live in a state like Texas or the south. Or perhaps a conservative area in a liberal state. Anyways, despite our crumbling economy, high rates of homelessness and employment, Wall Street corruption, etc., I feel we will recover from all of this and progress toward a better future.

Perhaps, we will no longer be the richest and powerful nation in the future and despite all our current domestic and global issues, I will always be loyal to this country. That's why it was worrying for me to see someone like you who I saw as American first and Chinese second turn their admiration toward the East.

 

[Huan]

@ Huan to be trite, the US has political freedom whereas China does not. Now there isn't much to admire about the narrow, paranoid, exclusive, definition of freedom that Americans have adapted (see the video in my signature) but it is better then the strained and often non-existent political dialogue between communist party and the people of China.

You know as well as me that the politicians in Washington increasingly cannot deliver on the promises they made to get our country out of this great economic mess we are in along with other domestic problems as well as expensive foreign entanglements around the world. A lack of long-term vision comes from Washington as compared to Beijing. Americans may retain some of their freedoms, but might end up on the streets, homeless and starving.

There are now terms floating around like, third world America, American slums, etc.

 

[Infiltrator]

You know as well as me that the politicians in Washington increasingly cannot deliver on the promises they made to get our country out of this great economic mess we are in along with other domestic problems as well as expensive foreign entanglements around the world. A lack of long-term vision comes from Washington as compared to Beijing.Americans may retain some of their freedoms, but might end up on the streets, homeless and starving.

There are now terms floating around like, third world America, American slums, etc.

I still haven't seen many of these things like this in one of the states many people consider "bankrupt" and don't expect to anytime soon. Homelessness has always been a problem though but the amount of people on the street hasn't look like it has increased dramatically.

In regards to those terms, they're not news to me. We already have poor areas in the country with terrible infrastructure but I'd say even the worst parts of the U.S. are better than the vast majority of areas in third world countries.

 

[below_freezing]

That's anti-American in itself. Our country is based on being American before anything else. Ethnicity, place of birth, etc. are something an American never places before being an American. Our country allows its citizens to support other countries over the U.S. but that doesn't make their views any less anti-American.


In regards to Below_feezing, he's from PRC so I take his points on overseas Chinese and overseas Taiwanese with a grain of salt.

Don't mind it at all. We're all free here, except for those shackled by Cold War ideology.

It is true though that all accused spies in the US are Taiwanese or ABCs and none are actually from mainland China.

Speaking of espionage, US spies abducted 2 Chinese citizens in Hungary without trial and have yet to return them. This is quite similar to how North Korea abducted Japanese citizens during the 1980's. Of course North Korea became much poorer and dependent on international aid within 10 years, let's see how the US turns out.

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[Vinod2070]

no, since you said that india has good relation to nato i thought israel must have better since it is closer to those countries and that they have USA!

I actually don't recall saying that.

India has some common interests with the USA but is not an ally like Israel or Pakistan or Turkey.

 

[IND151]

Asian unity is an evolving concept that will take time to mature.

Europeans fought two world wars before they got to their senses. One hopes we Asians can do one better.

The key will be cooperation over conflict. Major nations of Asia need to lead the way.

i agree with you

 

[Infiltrator]

Don't mind it at all. We're all free here, except for those shackled by Cold War ideology.

It is true though that all accused spies in the US are Taiwanese or ABCs and none are actually from mainland China.

Speaking of espionage, US spies abducted 2 Chinese citizens in Hungary without trial and have yet to return them. This is quite similar to how North Korea abducted Japanese citizens during the 1980's. Of course North Korea became much poorer and dependent on international aid within 10 years, let's see how the US turns out.

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Firstly, I assume your referring to CardSharp's post in regards to China and the freedom of its people when you say, "We're all free here, except for those shackled by Cold War ideology."

Now, I'd like to ask what is it with you and derailing the discussion into different directions all the time. I was talking about being pro-American/anti-American/pro-China etc. and you quote me and start talking about spies and espionage?

Also, since you brought it up, could you prove a source that proves all accused spies in the US are Taiwanese or ABC (as in Argentina, Brazil and Chile I presume)? I'm just curious about that claim.

As for the article discussing the abduction of 2 Chinese citizens, I will not digress into that. It's a separate issue and not recent or relevant to what I was discussing.

 

[Developereo]

US is not present in India, its present in Pakistan! You've already welcomed them. Where's the true feeling gone?

See below.

But you are the major non Nato ally of USA, not India!

You were the most allied ally, you fought evil Godless kaffir communists with them (oh the delicious irony )!

The fact that you put it in bold implies that you think this is some hotshot point. Sadly for you, it is not.

Pakistan's status as a major non-NATO ally is with respect to the war against terrorists. This "alliance" is not directed against another Asian country.

As for the reference to the Soviet era, there was no Asian alliance and India/Pakistan were locked in a proxy USSR-US conflict,

I would pass this as hallucination but it is actually desperation.

A desperation that is just too visible, trying to twist facts to suit your agenda and paranoia.

Feel free to keep throwing words at me until you can come up with actual rebuttals.

Of course, the very mention of Asian unity has you firing on all cylinders about why it can't work. The insecurity is just too visible.

It's called common sense, and bringing a reality check to the "let's hold hands around a campfire and sing Kumbaya" nonsense in this thread.

Russia sees itself as a European, not an Asian, country. The original article itself makes it clear that Russia is pushing the gas pipeline to keep Turkmen gas out of Europe, where it would dilute Russia's bargaining power.

As for India, it is only playing nice with China so it can convince it to stay out of south Asia.

China may try to forge some sort of Asian unity but it has some unfinished business in the east.

 

[Developereo]

The US is 'in' lot of countries but 'not' in India! (India is not Iraq, Afghanistan, or Pakistan where US can just get IN) As far as intention goes, our intention would be for unity ( if at all we consider calling them ) and NOT for money / toys! That's the difference. So from now on, you're not allowed to say that we 'welcome' someone and are happy if someone is present in Asia!

India is wooing the US to get American military technology. And Indian military leaders have made no secret of whom they consider their prime enemy.

You can continue playing with words, since facts do not sit well with the charade of 'Asian unity'.