US blocked transfer of Jordanian F-16s to Pakistan

[BetterPakistan]

Kiddo????

Okey uncle... then why PAF is after 2nd hand F16, even after getting insulted by US publicly.

Don't talk about Tejas; if you cant prove your point on topic, better leave the matter to others to do.

Finally, calling others kiddo doesn't make you grown up.

Cheers
(sarve jana sukhino bhavanthu)

Since you have called me uncle I will call you beta.

Beta, PAF is after F-16 be it new or 2nd hand is because we already have 76 F-16s and we have the infrastructure to operate more F-16s that is why F-16s is one of the priority. Secondly US didn't insulted us publicly, US is again coming to us for talks on Afghan matter after warning us and we're not much interested so it means now Pak is insulting them? This is all diplomacy which you won't understand. Don't you remember how badly India cried when Russia-Pak military drills were going to happen but Russia didn't listened to you, do it means that Russia insulted India publicly??

JF-17 is PAF top priority. PAF has 86 JF-17 and this number will reach 100 soon and after that PAF will induct 50 Block 3 which will make JF-17 to 150, way more than F-16s in PAF.

I don't need to prove anything about tejas because its still crap. Its not operational. No one is using this crap. Your own navy and air force isn't operating tejas than why I waste my time discussing it. Tejas is simply crap and you can't deny this fact.

 

[Inception-06]

Your posts talk about the 'heavy long range fighter'. Perhaps PAF needs to change the doctrines a lot to accommodate such a type of aircraft in 4.5 gen category. The cost factor is the first step, army and navy have made big purchases. Army keeps inducting various types of equipment in small quantity, navy is going for subs. PAF has to jump in and snatch its share too. Stop Looking around for F16 could be a good starting step. Light fighter is steady here. Heavy or stealth.

You ensured that every one reading your posts gets a thorough knowledge of JH-7B, hehehe.

I would say the SU34 is also a very capable aircraft in same category and a Russian option not flown by India. It can carry a variety of bomb load with ease and can have upgraded avionics suite. It has seen combat recently in COIN ops. French avionics has been tested on it (Thales Damocles pod, probably considered for JF17 too).

It can be integrated into Mirage squadrons and if data linked with them, it can act as mini AWACS and guide them in strike operations and is also an excellent option when Mirages retire.

Although your point has been long range strike missions, the amount of ammo a single SU34 can carry, PAF would not need to get 4 Mirage in the air for COIN or short-medium range strikes.

It was overtime that you have to write a reply regarding @MastanKhan, keep on Bro, don't forget to tag me on every military post, still enjoy to read your analysis!

best regards

Your posts talk about the 'heavy long range fighter'. Perhaps PAF needs to change the doctrines a lot to accommodate such a type of aircraft in 4.5 gen category. The cost factor is the first step, army and navy have made big purchases. Army keeps inducting various types of equipment in small quantity, navy is going for subs. PAF has to jump in and snatch its share too. Stop Looking around for F16 could be a good starting step. Light fighter is steady here. Heavy or stealth.

You ensured that every one reading your posts gets a thorough knowledge of JH-7B, hehehe.

I would say the SU34 is also a very capable aircraft in same category and a Russian option not flown by India. It can carry a variety of bomb load with ease and can have upgraded avionics suite. It has seen combat recently in COIN ops. French avionics has been tested on it (Thales Damocles pod, probably considered for JF17 too).

It can be integrated into Mirage squadrons and if data linked with them, it can act as mini AWACS and guide them in strike operations and is also an excellent option when Mirages retire.

Although your point has been long range strike missions, the amount of ammo a single SU34 can carry, PAF would not need to get 4 Mirage in the air for COIN or short-medium range strikes.

There is no Russian option, still, India exists in its current form, I see only the Chinese option!

 

[denel]

yes sir, indeed tejas is a crap. A crap that was designed, developed, integrated and tested in INDIA. It is modified to next level too in INDIA. a crap who built the aerospace indrustry in INDIA.
Its a crap sir correct, but will love to beat crap out of our enemies with it dun worry.

Anyways off topic the only plane pakistan knows in deep in mirages because they literally strapped them to nuts and bolts but still no matter what they boaster about any plane, None let me repeat none of the planes in its inventory is designed, developed, tested, modified(will exclude mirages from this) in pakistan. Its a reality and please keep in mind I did not use the word produced.

Let us stick with the topic at hand. With all fairness, some projects land up in failure but at least it builds a huge knowledge base for future technology absorption or projects.

 

[BetterPakistan]

yes sir, indeed tejas is a crap. A crap that was designed, developed, integrated and tested in INDIA. It is modified to next level too in INDIA. a crap who built the aerospace indrustry in INDIA.
Its a crap sir correct, but will love to beat crap out of our enemies with it dun worry.

Anyways off topic the only plane pakistan knows in deep in mirages because they literally strapped them to nuts and bolts but still no matter what they boaster about any plane, None let me repeat none of the planes in its inventory is designed, developed, tested, modified(will exclude mirages from this) in pakistan. Its a reality and please keep in mind I did not use the word produced.

Yes Tejas is a crap that is why your navy and air force rejected it. It isn't modified to next level, its not even working in the present level. Aerospace industry in India isn't something great and it is not developed by tejas.

Mirages, F-7s which later were upgrade to F7PGs, J-6 all were upgraded in Pakistan. Mirage Rose upgrade was very successful and this all lead to JF-17 development which is quite a success. JF-17 block 3 will blow your mind kids. You accept it or not but India sucks in tank and fighter jet production. I remember in Indo-Pak standoff in 2001-02, Indian military faced 789-1874 non-combat deaths which shows how poorly mines etc are maintained in India. I mean how could you talk about Indian military when your parliament was told that Indian army ammunition storage is not more than 10 days

 

[randomradio]

I think there may have been a couple of factors which made PAF baulk.
A. Changing winds in the US defence establishment. PAF has taken a very calculated risk by going for just 18 Bl.52s while building up its reservoir of older Bl15 F16s. The idea is cost effectiveness at a price that does not break the bank.The spectre of sanctions has always been there but I strongly suspect the idea has always been capability building at an affordable cost with a view that if sanctions come their effect will be minimal. The US has on its side seen the move and countered it with a sale of Older F16s being linked to buying newer F16s. I suspect the cancelled Jordanian deal may have had something to do with the 8F16s which PAF refused to go for.
The Principal of the deal. PAF had agreed a price based on a mutual need,ie the need for PAF to have more fightersand the need for Lockmart to keep the supply line open. The Congress put a spanner in the works by refusing to pay their share from FMF. In principal what was alluring at 30 million a pop became a burden at 80million a pop. In principal PAF said we have stuck to our side now if you renege on youe part of the bargain we cannot go ahead with the deal. Right or wrong this is hte decision which PAF took.
Other offerings on the horizon. It maybe that there are other offerings on the horizon either from China or from other parties. It may also be that the JFT hasbeen advancing smuch more efficiently and beyond expectations. Now in an atmosphere of resource constraint do you spend 800million on 8 planes or 500 million on 30 planes.
In short there maybe many permutations on the calculus for PAF to have made that decision.
A

PAF most definitely has the need for an aircraft that could bridge the gap between the F-16/JF-17 and any future 5th gen program.

If Gripen E fails in India, then that would be the best option for PAF.

 

[araz]

PAF most definitely has the need for an aircraft that could bridge the gap between the F-16/JF-17 and any future 5th gen program.

If Gripen E fails in India, then that would be the best option for PAF.

Dont know at the moment.My humble opinion is that PAF will mover on to the fifth generation platform from China and gradually build up reserves. It maybe that if they need a larger platform then the Jseries or SU35 comes into the pcture. The situation is fairly fluid and our pockets are not very deep either.
A

 

[randomradio]

Dont know at the moment.My humble opinion is that PAF will mover on to the fifth generation platform from China and gradually build up reserves. It maybe that if they need a larger platform then the Jseries or SU35 comes into the pcture. The situation is fairly fluid and our pockets are not very deep either.
A

The Chinese "Clankers" (just made up the name ) are not available for exports. And they are not a good idea for PAF anyway. The Typhoon would be a cheaper and better option if that's the case. Yep, it's way cheaper than a Flanker, especially with the new process changes that BAE has proposed. Their goal is to reduce CPFH to that of the F-16. The Clankers will be 3 times as expensive.

Anyway, a dedicated 5th gen aircraft will be a reality only after 2030. PAF will lose an entire decade if they don't make a decision on at least a stop gap aircraft like the F-16V, if not a proven next gen aircraft like Gripen.

 

[Advocate Pakistan]

pakistan doesnt need F-16s pakistan needs to eradicate poverty and spent on its 'bloody civilians'

There were Seven swords hanging from the Holy Prophet's wall when he passed away but there was no flour in his home for the next meal.
Also read some history about Israel.
Yes a balance should be struck between civilian and military spending.
But when living in a forest full of lions, if you loose your claws for hooves, than you are the prey of choice for the lions.

 

[313ghazi]

i would be happy if the homes of gen asif bajwa and DG ISPRG gen ghafoor and DG ISI gen naveed have seven swords but no flour, it would be an example set for the bloody civilians or is the rule only applied for bloody civilians?

Yes exactly. Why should a Muslim follow the example of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) when his neighbour is not. Clearly the sunnah is a burden to some of you.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

This is a very tiny news not sure why 16 pages are wasted for such a useless suppliere
3 threads to talk about US and Jordanian F16

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/us-b...f-16s-to-pakistan.521706/page-16#post-9935393

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/how-...dia-and-pakistan-on-the-f-16-aircraft.522463/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/why-...iners-to-turkey-blocks-pakistans-help.520662/

I don't even think Jordan has 3 flyable F16 , and we have 3 threads talking about the F16 which is never ours to begin with

 

[Signalian]

Hi,

My comments were on something else---regarding weapons purchase---

About 4 months ago---the JH7 beat the su 34 in strike missions in exercises in china---.

Training excercises are good to check the potential and war readiness of weapon systems, however SU34 has seen combat in Syria with good results where as JH-7 has yet to see combat.

Re-furb JH7 can be had around 15-25 mil a piece---SU34 would be 50-70 mil a piece---.

Re-furb price would obviously be lower than a brand new aircraft. PAF has a knack for inducting second hand and refurb aircrafts.

The wing design of the JH7 is far superior to the su 34 for low low flight.

SU34 has all the electronics in place for a terrain-hugging flight as well as having more hardpoints to carry a wide variety of weapons, with pilot comfort for long flights.

 

[ziaulislam]

The Chinese "Clankers" (just made up the name ) are not available for exports. And they are not a good idea for PAF anyway. The Typhoon would be a cheaper and better option if that's the case. Yep, it's way cheaper than a Flanker, especially with the new process changes that BAE has proposed. Their goal is to reduce CPFH to that of the F-16. The Clankers will be 3 times as expensive.

Anyway, a dedicated 5th gen aircraft will be a reality only after 2030. PAF will lose an entire decade if they don't make a decision on at least a stop gap aircraft like the F-16V, if not a proven next gen aircraft like Gripen.

i am pretty confident that j]fifth gen from china will be available in next couple of years, right in time ti replace the mirages in strategic role, where as jf-17 will fill the work force role, and if available some more f-16 might come, even if they dont come to composition would be 5 sq of f-16s(77), 2-3 sq of fifth gen(36) and 12-13sq of jf-17s(200~220)= 19 sq

PAF sanction strength is 19 sq vs sanction strength of 42(current strength of 33 )for IAF

my guess is that j-31 should be available by 2023-2025, easily, it was revealed only couple of years after j-20, and j-20 is already in serial production

 

[MastanKhan]

Training excercises are good to check the potential and war readiness of weapon systems, however SU34 has seen combat in Syria with good results where as JH-7 has yet to see combat.

Re-furb price would obviously be lower than a brand new aircraft. PAF has a knack for inducting second hand and refurb aircrafts.

SU34 has all the electronics in place for a terrain-hugging flight as well as having more hardpoints to carry a wide variety of weapons, with pilot comfort for long flights.

Hi,

" SEEN COMBAT " is an old fairy tale from an outdated fighter pilot's biography---.

Today---all aircraft's inducted into an air forces of the world are battle tested---that is done thru simulation of real battle conditions during training---.

So---that term does not hold any value at all.

That is why the Paf got fckd up regarding the Rafale---said it was not battle tested---what idiots---off course it was " battle tested " it is the premium leading aircraft of the world #2 super power---France---"---by the time it got battle tested for Paf's sake in Libya---the aircraft got out of the reach of Paf / Pakistan---.

So---please take that term out of the vocabulary---all weapons once integrated are " battle tested and are battle ready ".

 

[randomradio]

i am pretty confident that j]fifth gen from china will be available in next couple of years, right in time ti replace the mirages in strategic role, where as jf-17 will fill the work force role, and if available some more f-16 might come, even if they dont come to composition would be 5 sq of f-16s(77), 2-3 sq of fifth gen(36) and 12-13sq of jf-17s(200~220)= 19 sq

PAF sanction strength is 19 sq vs sanction strength of 42(current strength of 33 )for IAF

my guess is that j-31 should be available by 2023-2025, easily, it was revealed only couple of years after j-20, and j-20 is already in serial production

2023-25 is too soon for the J-31. J-20 was a well planned and well funded program, the J-31 is not a military program. So you can't compare the two. Not to mention, the aircraft has been designed by Shenyang, a company that has been less successful than Chengdu, the designer of J-10, JF-17 and J-20.

It is possible that PAF may ask for a brand new design with Chengdu, not the J-31.

 

[Incog_nito]

Pakistan is feeling the heat!