US-2 aircraft to be imported in flyaway condition

[Abingdonboy]

thats strange? why did india not go for a make in india proposal. make 6 in japan and 6 in india with part manufacturing capability in india

@Abingdonboy @anant_s @MilSpec

Looks like we are going for limited "fly away" deals.

The international line was suppose to come up in India and then reports surfaced about Indonesia.

Perhaps DM Mp does not want to over commit before getting a feedback from IN post few years clocked in service.

But if its build in Japan, its gonna take some time before it reaches India as their productivity i read somewhere for US2 is not very good.

A very shortsighted decision to do away with MII.

well it not about bringing a production line (well sort of) its about bringing in experiance to india, also it can try sell it to to other countries

6-12 units is NEVER going to be enough to make localised production feasible, you would need >30 to make it remotely justifable. I did not expect MII unless the IN/ICG went crazy and ordered 40+ units.

 

[Blue Marlin]

6-12 units is NEVER going to be enough to make localised production feasible, you would need >30 to make it remotely justifable. I did not expect MII unless the IN/ICG went crazy and ordered 40+ units.

as i have said before, is nt about making a factory is about training people, experiance, and more importanty industry im not saying buld a new factory use what you already have to build them. i have not seen much in this make in india campain and its very anoying to find the media(indian) promote this heavily but with no major success. who cares if its only 6, you have the infrastructure build it!

 

[dadeechi]

6-12 units is NEVER going to be enough to make localised production feasible, you would need >30 to make it remotely justifable. I did not expect MII unless the IN/ICG went crazy and ordered 40+ units.

What you state is true but my points were:

1) Everything cannot be seen in terms of short term costs pertaining to an isolated deal

2) It may not be financially viable for a private player but government should have chipped in to finance a portion of the cost to mitigate the risk and facilitate a private player to setup the shop under MII.

3) Even if the ToT may not be totally absorbed it would have atleast generated some employment and experienced work force

4) MII would have provided incentives to the armed forces to go for additional numbers at a later date

5) More so when there no competitor/alternative to US-2 in the market

 

[Tshering22]

as i have said before, is nt about making a factory is about training people, experiance, and more importanty industry im not saying buld a new factory use what you already have to build them. i have not seen much in this make in india campain and its very anoying to find the media(indian) promote this heavily but with no major success. who cares if its only 6, you have the infrastructure build it!

If the Admirals give a good feedback maybe after 2 years of usage (based on how relevant it is to our military, because it will have a totally new role like never before in IN), then expect 12-15 more into the fleet.

Alternatively, while Abe-san and PM Modi have a strong personal friendship as is evident, they are not emperors of their respective countries. Both have to answer their stakeholders and justify this. While all of our side may be happy to acquire the know-how of US-2, ShinMayawa may not have been pleased about exporting their production line for such a small order.

For all we don't know, they may have pressured PM Abe to decline or maybe postpone the agreement initially just to see how much guaranteed market they can get.

Japan is very new to sale of military weapons after 1945.

The last time we used Japanese weapons was by the Indian National Army soldiers under Neta ji's command (many current states were tributaries to Indian Union then).

The world has changed a lot and Japanese have not kept up with it in the export of weapons sector.

 

[EAK]

Like Chinese did to you with the 'thunder'!!

By the way Your pehchaan sucks..

 

[Raftaar]

What you state is true but my points were:

1) Everything cannot be seen in terms of short term costs pertaining to an isolated deal

2) It may not be financially viable for a private player but government should have chipped in to finance a portion of the cost to mitigate the risk and facilitate a private player to setup the shop under MII.

3) Even if the ToT may not be totally absorbed it would have atleast generated some employment and experienced work force

4) MII would have provided incentives to the armed forces to go for additional numbers at a later date

5) More so when there no competitor/alternative to US-2 in the market

dadeechi, buddy this deal is not abt make in India or tot......it's more then a plane....... Modi Ji is playing smart.......
The MAIN AIM of this deal is to open up highly advanced Japanese defense industry to India since japs r very sensitive regarding selling weapon systems......
Bro, dese guys were makin aircraft carriers in 1940s ,!!! U can expect what all dey ve in store ! Heard of Soryu class subs ?

I say let this damn plane land in India !!!!
N u ll C what japs will give us !
Japan is smaller than Punjab (India) n economy 3 biggest ! Wat dey gonna do with all that money ..... Pump in to india ...yeah !

 

[Silicon0000]

What benefits India is looking for with this plane?

Please be precise.

 

[sathya]

dadeechi, buddy this deal is not abt make in India or tot......it's more then a plane....... Modi Ji is playing smart.......
The MAIN AIM of this deal is to open up highly advanced Japanese defense industry to India since japs r very sensitive regarding selling weapon systems......
Bro, dese guys were makin aircraft carriers in 1940s ,!!! U can expect what all dey ve in store ! Heard of Soryu class subs ?

I say let this damn plane land in India !!!!
N u ll C what japs will give us !
Japan is smaller than Punjab (India) n economy 3 biggest ! Wat dey gonna do with all that money ..... Pump in to india ...yeah !

Japan is not that small..

 

[Abingdonboy]

What you state is true but my points were:

1) Everything cannot be seen in terms of short term costs pertaining to an isolated deal

2) It may not be financially viable for a private player but government should have chipped in to finance a portion of the cost to mitigate the risk and facilitate a private player to setup the shop under MII.

3) Even if the ToT may not be totally absorbed it would have atleast generated some employment and experienced work force

4) MII would have provided incentives to the armed forces to go for additional numbers at a later date

5) More so when there no competitor/alternative to US-2 in the market

as i have said before, is nt about making a factory is about training people, experiance, and more importanty industry im not saying buld a new factory use what you already have to build them. i have not seen much in this make in india campain and its very anoying to find the media(indian) promote this heavily but with no major success. who cares if its only 6, you have the infrastructure build it!

Again, it is simply not economically feasible to set up the requsite infrastructure in any nation for such a limited number of aircraft the basic economics principle of economies of scale explains why.

The process of setting up localised production is not as simple as you have outlined. Initially you will begin with CKDs then SKDs and finally localised production using raw materials sourced from within your country. The transition from CKDs to localised production requires a vast amount of training and tooling being set up specific to the new type, just because you make X in your country doesn't mean that making Y will not require any new expertise. Every product is unique and will require vast amounts of specific tooling/training.

There's no way it would ever have been feasible for an order of such limited quantities, no where in the world would that have been possible. You need a firm commitment of >30 units in this case to make this feasible. Many foreign OEMs were saying that 40 (out of 56) units made in India in the Avro replacment were going to stretch margins and make their investment questionable.

Just willing something to be doesn't change basic economic principals, the OEM can always say "no" if the CBA returns an unfavourable verdict as far as they are concerned.

What benefits India is looking for with this plane?

Please be precise.

India has thousands of islands within its territory, many of which have almost no connectivity links till now. The US-2 will allow for an air bridge to be set up with such remote outposts as well as supporting the IN's SSN/SSBN fleet in times of emergencies and long range SAR will be facilitated by this very unique platform in ways that no other asset could possibly handle.

 

[egodoc222]

You didn't have to open your mouth to show how naive, or ill-informed, you are, but hey if you wanna make a fool of yourself go right ahead!

I could say the same to you!! But I won't!!
Because I might have touched a nerve there...lol what you replied is just a knee jerk reaction!!

By the way Your pehchaan sucks..

Kiddo....go do your homework!!

 

[Ind4Ever]

thats strange? why did india not go for a make in india proposal. make 6 in japan and 6 in india with part manufacturing capability in india

We tried but didn't work out well.

 

[somebozo]

I already predicted that Make in India was just a populist political move..India does not have the required expertise and infrastructure..it could not even churn out a functional fighter in 40 years..soviet union and USA were churning out new super sonic planes ever few years - each with technology light years ahead...

 

[Swaha]

proof please

Give him a minute...he'll pull it out of his rear soon!!

 

[Raftaar]

I already predicted that Make in India was just a populist political move..India does not have the required expertise and infrastructure..it could not even churn out a functional fighter in 40 years..soviet union and USA were churning out new super sonic planes ever few years - each with technology light years ahead...

I already predicted that Make in India was just a populist political move..India does not have the required expertise and infrastructure..it could not even churn out a functional fighter in 40 years..soviet union and USA were churning out new super sonic planes ever few years - each with technology light years ahead...

Rome was not built in a day my dear,
2ndly, world does not revolve around a fighter jet only !

 

[INDIAISM]

I already predicted that Make in India was just a populist political move..India does not have the required expertise and infrastructure..it could not even churn out a functional fighter in 40 years..soviet union and USA were churning out new super sonic planes ever few years - each with technology light years ahead...

Haha done with your jokes....Seriously why don't people like you from other side of the border get over your hate and get practical....

Firstly The main reason for MII policy Is to create that same Infrastructure and expertise in every field that we are lacking at present...

Secondly forget about next 40 years even within next 15 years India will be 7 to 8 trillion dollar GDP in nominal terms and that means defence budget of around 150-200 Billion $....which means huge opportunity for Multi Billion Dollar Indian Groups like Reliance, Tata, L&T, Birla, Adani, Infosys etc to invest in R&D
of defence products....