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Ultimate edition of Jf-17

see the current fighters and you will find your answer. none of today's stealth aircraft uses canards and its aerodynamically Impossible for a small plane to have both twin tail and canards at a same time.

aerodynamically impossible??
O pai I made an Rc plane three years back like that, Flew well till an eagle took hostility to it.
And whether none of Today's stealth or non stealth or fat or thin aircraft don't use it it doesn't mean its not possible.
There was a plan for a Sukhoi single seater which had just what you term Aerodynamically Impossible, was smaller than the thunder in size..are you calling the Sukhoi design team amateurs or people who dont know their jobs... Yar koi baungi marne se pehle thora research kar k soch liya karo.. :P :rofl:

18eaa0d1608dd9da91e8bb812a498da4.jpg

23684d295d70888687e2c1c411437a23.jpg

See the canards.. see the twin tails.. see the Single engine.. The Sukhoi guys actually thought this could work.. Stupid Russians..
 
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wow! that kooks great!
what is it, i mean which plane! as nik 007 the nose do look like a raptor but nik, its not a raptor dude, raptor do not have such canard wings!!

so a1b2c145 can you tell what is it, just an art piece or what??
absolutely this is a fake~~

just an art piece ,but Jf-17 fans still want it to change better,and better than we can expect!!!
:agree:
 
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Ultimate edition of Jf-17 should like this(just about its shape) ,hopefully!!

1. All-glass cockpit
2. Stealth fuselage in line with the fluid mechanics
3. Vertical dual-extraversion fin/tail
4. Built-arms warehouse

It already have a "glass cockpit". A "glass cockpit" is the replacing of all analog instruments by digital systems like on the MFD in JF-17.

I think you wanted to say "all-glass canopy"...a canopy is the glass covering the cockpit.
 
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It depends on vortices generated by the canards (oscillation) and LERX... The so called ultimate edition has no LERX... Still the canards create huge distortion... Even with single engined fighterjets you need correction (just check eurofighter and Gripen (just behind the canard) and you create bigger rcs... Besides that you can imagine the structural improvements in weight far away from cg...


So drawings are nice bug just a conceptual model. Some need thousands of hours to test and some can predict.
 
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aerodynamically impossible??
O pai I made an Rc plane three years back like that, Flew well till an eagle took hostility to it.
And whether none of Today's stealth or non stealth or fat or thin aircraft don't use it it doesn't mean its not possible.
There was a plan for a Sukhoi single seater which had just what you term Aerodynamically Impossible, was smaller than the thunder in size..are you calling the Sukhoi design team amateurs or people who dont know their jobs... Yar koi baungi marne se pehle thora research kar k soch liya karo.. :P :rofl:

18eaa0d1608dd9da91e8bb812a498da4.jpg

23684d295d70888687e2c1c411437a23.jpg

See the canards.. see the twin tails.. see the Single engine.. The Sukhoi guys actually thought this could work.. Stupid Russians..

am Talking about those planes existed(operational) today. am not Talking about testbeds . Does This goes into production?? even a prototype?? and munna its not smaller than JF17 it have estimated length of 17.2meters compared to Thunder's 14m So 1st you do your research before suggesting others. read munir's post you might understand more:)
 
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This wasn't conceptual.. wasn't built because they did not have the funding. Go read the detailed article about it on global defense
and as for your length claim.
the S-56 was the carrier variant.
S-54 vital statistics

DIMENSIONS:
Wingspan 9.08 m (29 ft 9 1/2 in)
Length overall 12.30 m (40 ft 4 in)
Height overall 4.47 m (14 ft 8 in)
WEIGHTS AND LOADINGS:
Weight empty, equipped 4,790 kg (10,560 lb)
Max T-O weight 9,410 kg (20,745 lb)
Max landing weight 7,130 kg (15,718 lb)
Max wing loading 356.2 kg/m2 (72.94 lb/sq ft)
Max power loading 154.75 kg/kN (1.52 Ib/lb st)
PERFORMANCE (estimated):
Max level speed:
at height Mach 1.55 (890 knots / 1,650 km/h / 1,025 mph)
at S/L Mach 0.98 (645 knots / 1,200 km/h / 745 mph)
T-O speed 98 knots (180 km/h 112 mph)
Landing speed 92 knots (I7O km/h 106 mph)
Service ceiling 18,000 m (59,050 ft)
T-O run 380 m (1,250 ft)
Landing run 500 m (1,640 ft)
Range with max fuel
at S/L 440 nm (820 km/510 miles)
at height 1,080 nm (2,000 km/1,240 miles)
G-limits +9/-3

for comparision here is the Gripen

# Length: 14.1 m (46 ft 3 in)
# Wingspan: 8.4 m (27 ft 7 in)
# Height: 4.5 m (14 ft 9 in)
# Wing area: 30.0 m² (323 ft²)
# Empty weight: 5,700 kg (14,600 lb)
# Loaded weight: 8,500 kg (18,700 lb)
# Max takeoff weight: 14,000 kg (31,000 lb)
# Powerplant: 1× Volvo Aero RM12 afterburning turbofan

* Dry thrust: 54 kN (12,100 lbf)
* Thrust with afterburner: 80.5 kN (18,100 lbf)

And the JF-17

# Length: 14.0 m [46] (45.9 ft)
# Wingspan: 9.45 m (including 2 wingtip missiles) [46] (31 ft)
# Height: 4.77 m (15 ft 8 in)
# Wing area: 24.4 m² [46] (263 ft²)
# Empty weight: 6,411 kg [47] (14,134 lb)
# Loaded weight: 9,100 kg including 2× wing-tip mounted air-to-air missiles [48] [49] (20,062 lb)
# Max takeoff weight: 12,700 kg [48] (28,000 lb)
# Powerplant: 1× Klimov RD-93 turbofan [50]

* Dry thrust: 49.4 kN [51] [52] (11,106 lbf)
* Thrust with afterburner: 84.4 kN [53] [54] (18,973 lbf)
(shamelessly taken off Wikipedia )

It wasn't built because nobody funded it.. That doesn't make it aerodynamically impossible OR a failure. If that was the case that you judge an aircraft just by whether someone flew it or not, then a lot of brilliant designs which were wind tunnel tested are failures..
and.. finally.. If there was such the issue with canards..then are the swedes or the Europeans nuts to build those jets? The advent of computer assisted flight is precisely the reason that canards(and other unstable dynamics) are now used in aircraft. The Distortion is handled by both using clever aerodynamics and redundant flight computers which make the necessary corrections to the control surfaces to ensure the aircraft does not .
The canards also contribute to the extreme maneuverability these fighters exhibit. Whether they contribute to the RCS is also managed by flight computer which in the case of the eurofighter ensure that the canards are always in the optimal position to ensure a lower RCS.
Which bring us to the original idea of why you cant use twin tails and canards on the same jet.. I see no.. SCIENTIFIC proof that it cannot be done. Or wasn't done because it was aerodynamically impossible. There were a lot of reason many aircraft failed to leave the drawing or model stage, quite a few because simply nobody wanted them at that time.
This particular jet wasn't built as the Sukhoi company has its own internal competition by the larger siblings of this one. So when you could buy a 27 or 30 for a marginally higher price and get a better performing aircraft in terms of range and speed.
So.. ipso facto, while you are correct in saying that nothing in production exists using this configuration. It does not belittle the concept or the design philosophy as inherently flawed. Canards and Twin tails are both used TOGETHER as moving control surfaces in much lighter, slower and faster aircraft than the ones I mention. And so this particular part of your post which I question "its aerodynamically Impossible for a small plane to have both twin tail and canards at a same time." still stands for me an unsubstantiated claim. Cheers
 
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Santro,

There are lots of things that goes into designing a plane. Its not just a question of what is aerodynamically possible and what is not. Lots of shape can take off the ground but they aren't optimized for flying. There are various configurations - single tail, twin-tails, delta wings, cropped delta, canards, LERX, and various planes have taken different configurations.

Its a question of what you want to optimize your aircraft for and which configuration gives it the best. It comes down to drawing graphs of different aerodynamic parameters from tests conducted for different shapes and choosing the best compromise. Sukhoi, and Russians in general, have good expertise in twin-tails so one would imagine they have tons and tons of data collected for this design. They probably know its pros and cons more than anyone else.

There is no universal optimal solution to aerodynamics. So unless one can state what exactly the plane you are referring to , or in this case the art done on JF-17, is optimized for, it is difficult to criticize what twin-tails + canards will be good or bad.

In general, and for a small fighter, both twin tails and canards means addition of weight. And because of reduced length, turbulent flow of air over the wings and tail will be a high cause of concern. Also by having both canards and horizontal tail, you are in effect using two surfaces for the same thing (assuming those canards are movable). This makes the plane "moderately" unstable instead of the slightly unstable used in most fighters , in other words sensitivity to pitching movement. Canards also have poor stealth characteristics.

Unless we have access to the detailed tests, we cannot say what the characteristics might be. I guess they are using both canards and twin-tails primarily from a naval plane POV for more lift, high AoA (stall) and low supersonic trim drag at the expense of increased weight, reduced stealth.

In short it depends what you want and what you are willing to pay for it (not in price but in aerodynamic characteristics). Generally, stealth and canards do not agree much with each other.
 
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That is agreed, But again, it depends on the designers.The S-54-56 series used the basic Al-31F engine, So had half the power of the su-27. However once you look at the design the added weight also means a reduction in top speed and payload, but what it might be compromising there its gaining in an increases response in the vertical plane, but as you have stated. Its being done by people who have been working with this configuration for decades.While its true that stealth doesn't agree with anything sticking out of the closed shape of a fighter. The discussion isn't about stealth or the JF.
I was referring to this statement specifically where I felt I must chide the fellow for making such a statement" none of today's stealth aircraft uses canards and its aerodynamically Impossible for a small plane to have both twin tail and canards at a same time."

Which is far from the facts. Thanks anyhow for your refresher in Fighter design 101. But one cannot underestimate the current fighters underlying design and the relationship it has to evolution in requirements. The earliest incarnations of the ATF even had canards and Stovl. Now look at the F22.
And there are several cases where sound aircraft, which met earlier requirements. Never went into production.
 
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Maybe it is the CNG edition of JF-17?
Gonna get me one of those...:)

Seriously though, this is an entirely new concept and in no way should be called JF-17 upgrade...even if it is a genuine prototype and not a photoshop production.
 
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to me it more looks like a boat, ready to float in the sea :D
 
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Its also coming in special addition too, Just like honda's and toyota's.
 
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may be it is a J-XX???
a new chinese jet becuase a J-XX was also under tests, as i have heard and seen some pics too!
& it is a chinese jet becoz chinese is written on the tanker behind
 
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may be it is.............
JF-17X- A Pakistani Stealth Fighter :
In what is seen as a counter to India’s effort to jointly develop the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) with Russia’s Sukhoi Aircraft Corp, Pakistan’s Kamra-based Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and China’s Chengdu Aerospace Corp (CAC) last October inked a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to jointly develop an advanced, stealthy, single-seat and single-engined derivative of the JF-17 Thunder fourth-generation light multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) that is already being co-developed by PAC and CAC. Consequently, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is expected to induct only 100 JF-17s into service between this year and 2014, and subsequently switch over to the acquisition of another 150 JF-17-derived fifth-generation stealthy MRCAs between 2015 and 2025. Present plans call for the latter MRCA to be powered by SNECMA Moteurs’ M88-3 twin-shaft bypass turbofan, incorporate a digital glass cockpit and open-architecture avionics suite, and use SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems’ Vixen 500E X-band multi-mode active phased-array radar, or AESA, an integrated electronic warfare/defensive aids suite being developed by China’s CETC, along with a helmet-mounted sighting-cum-cueing system for which systems from THALES, BAE Systems and Denel Aerospace are being evaluated. The M88 turbofan for this aircraft will have variable camber inlet guide vanes, while its high-pressure compressor will have a sixth stage, and its exhaust nozzle will be of the ejector type. The turbofan will deliver 50kN (11,250lb) of dry thrust and 75kN (17,000lb) with afterburning. The primary offensive armament to be carried by this aircraft will be two underwing-mounted Hatf-8 (also called ‘Raad’ or ‘thunder’ in Arabic) air-launched cruise missile, which has a range of 350km. For air combat engagements, the stealthy MRCA will be armed with three types of air-to-air missiles: 60km-range PL-12 beyond visual range missile; 15km-range PL-13 within visual range missile; and PL-14 ramjet-powered 100km-range missile. The latter two have been developed by China in cooperation with South Africa’s Denel Aerospace.
 
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