Air Forces Monthly - summary of updates to JF-17

[The Eagle]

@aliyusuf

So letS try to reconcile the three statements:

View attachment 810490

1/ Snippet 1: The production radar has 65% more range than the prototype (which had 81NM range. So the production radar has a range of ~134NM or Approx. 250Km

2/ Snippet 2: given the above range it exceeds the current and future BVRAAMs

3/ Snippet 3: PL15 has a range exceeding 81NM and has an AESA seeker (hence also pointed to have strong ECM capabilities)

@HRK @JamD @SQ8 @Eagle @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Exactly, this is how it interprets.

 

[aliyusuf]

Regarding the 3rd snippet. I am pretty sure they are talking about the seeker of the PL15 being AESA and that the missile range is 81NM.

But after mentioning that the seeker of the PL-15 is AESA there is a period i..e. "full stop" on the sentence.

Then it states that "Its official range exceeds 81nm and its dual thrust rocket motor enables it to reach speeds of up to Mach 4".

The non-exact range mention is also creating confusion.
If the range of the radar and missile both are exceeding 81nm, what is the prediliction towards repeatedly mentioning this number?

 

[Riz]

This an official picture V/s DCS World fake picture and you mean?

Post in thread 'JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion'
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-17-block-3-updates-news-discussion.594030/post-13525983
There was a picture of 3P04 attached in this post which moderator deleted due to copyright issue

 

[aliyusuf]

@aliyusuf

So letS try to reconcile the three statements:

View attachment 810490

1/ Snippet 1: The production radar has 65% more range than the prototype (which had 81NM range. So the production radar has a range of ~134NM or Approx. 250Km

2/ Snippet 2: given the above range it exceeds the current and future BVRAAMs

3/ Snippet 3: PL15 has a range exceeding 81NM and has an AESA seeker (hence the article also pointed to its longer radar range and anti jamming capabilities)

@HRK @JamD @SQ8 @Eagle @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

That is the only logical and rational conclusion possible, I guess.
But what a mess of an article.

 

[The Eagle]

Post in thread 'JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion'
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-17-block-3-updates-news-discussion.594030/post-13525983
There was a picture of 3P04 attached in this post which moderator deleted due to copyright issue

Oh that repeatedly posted in the same thread my dear. This topic, here is different story hence, posted separately.

 

[Riz]

This an official picture V/s DCS World fake picture and you mean?

Post in thread 'JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion'
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-17-block-3-updates-news-discussion.594030/post-13525983
There was a picture of 3P04 attached in this post which moderator deleted due to copyright issue

 

[The Eagle]

Post in thread 'JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion'
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-17-block-3-updates-news-discussion.594030/post-13525983
There was a picture of 3P04 attached in this post which moderator deleted due to copyright issue

Deleted mine too... happy
Yes, the copyright issue is correct and serious as well.

 

[Riz]

Deleted mine too... happy
Yes, the copyright issue is correct and serious as well.

Ok sir

 

[aliyusuf]

The production radar has 65% more range than the prototype (which had 81NM range). So the production radar has a range of ~134NM or Approx. 250Km for 5 Sq. m target.

So if the radar range is 250km for KLJ-7A, then it outranges the RBE-2 AA radar for the Rafale.
Quite remarkable.

 

[Bilal.]

So if the radar range is 250km for KLJ-7A, then it outranges the RBE-2 AA radar for the Rafale.
Quite remarkable.

It would be a beast… and not too hard to believe as the rejected purely air cooled LKF601 is now openly being marketed with a 200km range.

 

[CriticalThought]

But Pakistanis go to imf...fix our own house.

Collect taxes.
Root out corruption...even army genrals have weddings of their children that run into hundreds of thousands of dollars. Where does rge money come from. Politicians- Well they are 100% thieves and the average man...

The low, and middle class has been systematically deprived of education, because illiteracy is the tool of choice for our elite. A vast number of our population is serving bonded labor under the rule of feudals. They cast their votes according to the wishes of the feudal. Millions have the Benazir Income Support Program and Ehsaas program as the only means of survival. On the one hand, they have no incentive to acquire education and improve themselves. On the other hand, since they know these programs are gifts from politicians, they cast their votes to satisfy their immediate needs. Zardari, Nawaz, and Imran - they are all beneficiaries of this system. The shameless Imran has formalized this under the term 'electables'. And then there are further millions for whom survival is a daily mountain they need to climb. On the one hand, there are MQM and other goons who extort bhatta from them. On the other hand the government wants taxes.

The way out of this is to impart world class education starting from Nursery, i.e. age 3. Education that goes beyond rote learning, and encompasses creativity, critical thinking, mathematical reasoning, and analytical reasoning. By the time they pass 10th/12th grade, they need internationally recognized technical colleges for trades such as plumbing, carpentry, joinery, machining etc. And for the topmost talent, internationally recognized universities. Along with this, industry needs to be established that will utilize this educated workforce. Neither Nawaz, nor Zardari, nor Imran Khan has put forth this vision. And what I am telling everyone on this forum, is that they WILL NOT. NEVER. Because they are the guard dogs of Western interests, overseeing the systematic enslavement of Pakistanis so their existence is only for the sake of providing a revenue stream for IMF and World Bank. I have said this elsewhere, I will say this again - a former World Bank employee has told me that countries like Venezuela and Pakistan are bankrolling IMF and World Bank. They will not tolerate anything which lead to Pakistan escaping their clutches. We need to get rid of Imran, Bajwa, Zardari, and Nawaz and the entire gang associated with them.

These are the three portions of the AFM JF-17 Block-III article, which require some imaginative interpretation to avoid conflict in meaning w.r.t. each other

View attachment 810472
From the first snippet if we interpret the range of the radar to be 65% in excess of the 81NM stated for the prototype, then we can reconcile the second snippet ... regardless of PL-15 is the production version or the export version. But snippet three becomes superfluous and a bit contradictory because of mentioning and comparing the PL-15 range with the 81NM range.

But, if we interpret that the current radar range is 81NM i.e. 150km then
the second snippet can only be rationalized then if we are getting the 148.3 km range PL-15E export version of the missile. But then snippet three becomes conflicting in meaning as it says the range of the radar is more than 81NM/150km.

Conclusion: The article was badly compiled and proper proofreading for conflicts in meaning and context was not done. A very unprofessional article.

There is no conflict. Stop twisting yourself into knots.

 

[luciferdd]

So if the radar range is 250km for KLJ-7A, then it outranges the RBE-2 AA radar for the Rafale.
Quite remarkable.

RBE-2 AA is a small size AESE radar that has only 836 old GaAs T/R Modulars,it's quite normal that KJL-7A will has a better performance.

 

[CriticalThought]

But after mentioning that the seeker of the PL-15 is AESA there is a period i..e. "full stop" on the sentence.

Then it states that "Its official range exceeds 81nm and its dual thrust rocket motor enables it to reach speeds of up to Mach 4".

The non-exact range mention is also creating confusion.
If the range of the radar and missile both are exceeding 81nm, what is the prediliction towards repeatedly mentioning this number?

Because the PL-15 missile, CANNOT have a range 65% larger than 81nm. Is this too hard to grasp?

 

[Al_Muhannad]

This is another reason PAC needs to focus on flight control systems. But maybe I give undue importance to FCS because I'm a controls engineer.

If I am not mistaked @JamD or some other person mentioned that PAC gave that control systems lead engineer guy 6 months to make a UAV out of K8. But he did not agree to it due to limited time/budget. If it was me, I would have taken the project regardless of the probability of success. At worst, we will have a crashed aircraft, but at best, we will have a workbench for further prototyping and development.

Such seemingly-impossible projects act as rapid capacity building in control systems/avionics. Building a first iteration of the FCS (with limited functionality) would have been accomplished. If the engine does not have it already, the first version of FADEC could have been developed. Small measurable consistent incremental progress. In my current job, we plan to do exactly that but to compete against european aerospace industry giants.

I would have hired 5 control engineers with 3-4 embedded SW and HW developers. Control SW could have been written using any free RTOS with a simulation framework (HiL/Pure SW) until HW was fully ready. A very popular FCS framework for commercial/DIY drones already exists online. Major work would have been control algo, and HW components (PCB, actuators, etc).

 

[Al_Muhannad]

disastrous consequences

Is it possible to talk about these consequences leaving out the confidential stuff? Was the aircraft able to take-off and land safely?