Ukraine tells EU leaders: Prepare for war with Russia

[tower9]

So its in Chinas interest to endanger the EU? Last time i checked China always stood for the absolute integrity of the EU.


Care to explain how the gas and oil from northern russia fields be transported to their infrastructure in the far east?

Titanic had massive pumps in the back of the ship that could have pumped all water out. Too bad it was damaged at the bow.


So you admit now, that its against EU interests if Ukraine falls to Russia and its important to hold the status quo? Good, we agree on that. President Xi said exactly same.

Russia protecting its core interests in the Ukraine is not endangering the EU. Ukraine is not an EU country. The Ukraine and Belarus are historically part of the Russian homeland.

China considers national sovereignty paramount because it is resolutely against the West constantly trying to undermine its own sovereignty. This is why China will not openly support Russia's takeover of Ukraine's ethnic Russian regions. However, this does not mean that China is siding with the EU or will not provide crucial support to Russia. It certainly will, make no doubt about it.

 

[MH.Yang]

Europe and Germany dont suffer, its an annoyance and nothing more. But for Russia its lost income, income Putin needs to pay salaries and pensions. Putin also cant switch customers since the entire pipeline system is build towards Europe.

China wont help Russia for same reasons it doesnt help anyone else, Business. Russia as economic midget is not worth the trouble, in that the Chinese are incredible predictable.

Nordstream 2 was yesterday delayed by months which costs Russia the entire winter season of income.

And just as that happens, Belarus carries the migrants away to end the conflict with the EU...most likely Putin called.



Hungary does not want to leave the EU, they depend 100% on the money transfer.


Its not "threatening" of economy. We are free to trade with whom we want. If we dont want trade with Russia uts a free decission. If someone ships migrants atnour border, we are free to block that country from trade. Im sure you agree with that, just as you block trade with australia, we are free to block trade with countries that act hostile against our interests.

Btw just yesterday EU cancelled all leasing with belarusian airline Belavia. They now lost their entire fleet of aircraft.

EU aircraft leasing contracts with Belavia to end, Ireland says

European Union aircraft leasing contracts with state-owned Belarusian airline Belavia will end as soon as the bloc finalises its new round of sanctions against Belarus, Ireland's foreign minister said on Monday.

www.reuters.com

We have done it once in 2013 / 2014. Does the EU have any way to hurt China? No.
We have just sanctioned a lot of European politicians. Does the EU have any way to hurt China? No.

China imposes sanctions on UK MPs, lawyers and academic in Xinjiang row

Former Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith says he will wear the retaliation like a ‘badge of honour’

www.theguardian.com

EU parliament freezes China deal ratification until Beijing lifts sanctions

The European Parliament halted on Thursday ratification of a new investment pact with China until Beijing lifts sanctions on EU politicians, deepening a dispute in Sino-European relations and denying EU companies greater access to China.

www.reuters.com

You think your stupid threat can stop China. Neither trump nor Biden can stop China from investing $600 billion in Iran, what qualifications does a declining and divided EU have to make demands on China.
Do you know that the EU has a trade surplus with China? In other words, China can give up the EU market, but the EU cannot give up the Chinese market. This is also the reason why China sanctions Australia instead of Canada. China has a trade surplus with Canada. Unless the EU has goods that China must buy, but the EU does not.
The EU can cooperate with whoever it wants, we do not care.

BTW: We have been working with the USA to expel French in Africa, France has basically lost its influence in East Africa now. But what else can the EU do besides spreading rumors in the European media that China colonized africa? You can't do anything.

 

[Beidou2020]

EU is not a friend of China.

 

[Apollon]

Russia protecting its core interests in the Ukraine is not endangering the EU. Ukraine is not an EU country. The Ukraine and Belarus are historically part of the Russian homeland.

China considers national sovereignty paramount because it is resolutely against the West constantly trying to undermine its own sovereignty. This is why China will not openly support Russia's takeover of Ukraine's ethnic Russian regions. However, this does not mean that China is siding with the EU or will not provide crucial support to Russia. It certainly will, make no doubt about it.

Wrong, the EU will not accept that Russia annex Ukraine, because that would send out the signal that eastern EU nations like Poland or the baltics are next. The EU can not allow this to happen, not even the slightest.

We have done it once in 2013 / 2014. Does the EU have any way to hurt China? No.
We have just sanctioned a lot of European politicians. Does the EU have any way to hurt China? No.

China imposes sanctions on UK MPs, lawyers and academic in Xinjiang row

Former Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith says he will wear the retaliation like a ‘badge of honour’

www.theguardian.com

EU parliament freezes China deal ratification until Beijing lifts sanctions

The European Parliament halted on Thursday ratification of a new investment pact with China until Beijing lifts sanctions on EU politicians, deepening a dispute in Sino-European relations and denying EU companies greater access to China.

www.reuters.com

You think your stupid threat can stop China. Neither trump nor Biden can stop China from investing $600 billion in Iran, what qualifications does a declining and divided EU have to make demands on China.
Do you know that the EU has a trade surplus with China? In other words, China can give up the EU market, but the EU cannot give up the Chinese market. This is also the reason why China sanctions Australia instead of Canada. China has a trade surplus with Canada. Unless the EU has goods that China must buy, but the EU does not.
The EU can cooperate with whoever it wants, we do not care.

BTW: We have been working with the USA to expel French in Africa, France has basically lost its influence in West Africa now. But what else can the EU do besides spreading rumors in the European media that China colonized africa? You can't do anything.

I think we can do alot. Chinas entire silkroad is build on the premise of the continental duopol of EU and China. If EU brakes away, China can deal with tajikistan and other bongo bongo countries on route.

China will not interfer in that in any way. Infact China just signed gigantic trade contracts with Ukraine to foster that silkroad initiative. The moment Russia tales Ukraine all this would be worthless, simply because Ukraine would become a dead end, just like Belarus.

So Chinas actions speak louder than your words.

 

[Apollon]

EU is not a friend of China.

There are no friends in diplomacy, just interests. Nations never have friends.

 

[tower9]

Wrong, the EU will not accept that Russia annex Ukraine, because that would send out the signal that eastern EU nations like Poland or the baltics are next. The EU can not allow this to happen, not even the slightest.



I think we can do alot. Chinas entire silkroad is build on the premise of the continental duopol of EU and China. If EU brakes away, China can deal with tajikistan and other bongo bongo countries on route.

China will not interfer in that in any way. Infact China just signed gigantic trade contracts with Ukraine to foster that silkroad initiative. The moment Russia tales Ukraine all this would be worthless, simply because Ukraine would become a dead end, just like Belarus.

So Chinas actions speak louder than your words.

Again, completely naive understanding of the world.

China will support Russia because it is imperative that it does so. Russia taking a few provinces does not equate to occupying the Ukraine and only a lunatic will extrapolate that to Russia taking Poland.

You are trying to claim that China will not support Russia because it is afraid that this would upset the EU? That is complete nonsense. You guys aren’t smarter than China is, trust me.

 

[MH.Yang]

So its in Chinas interest to endanger the EU? Last time i checked China always stood for the absolute integrity of the EU.


Care to explain how the gas and oil from northern russia fields be transported to their infrastructure in the far east?

Titanic had massive pumps in the back of the ship that could have pumped all water out. Too bad it was damaged at the bow.


So you admit now, that its against EU interests if Ukraine falls to Russia and its important to hold the status quo? Good, we agree on that. President Xi said exactly same.

Of course, we oppose Russia's annexation of Ukraine, and we even oppose Russia's annexation of Crimea, because this is a serious violation of international rules.
If a region can vote to join another country, it will lead to chaos in the world order. China itself is one of the makers and main beneficiaries of the current international rules, we are bound to uphold the rules. If we support Russia's approach and Taiwan emulates Crimea, how can we explain our behavior?
But this does not mean that we will agree to use sanctions to destroy Russia's economy, these are two different things. We are willing to strive to safeguard international rules and stop Russia's annexation of Ukraine. But we will not let Russia's economy collapse.

 

[Apollon]

Again, completely naive understanding of the world.

China will support Russia because it is imperative that it does so. Russia taking a few provinces does not equate to occupying the Ukraine and only a lunatic will extrapolate that to Russia taking Poland.

You are trying to claim that China will not support Russia because it is afraid that this would upset the EU? That is complete nonsense. You guys aren’t smarter than China is, trust me.

China will support the EU because its imperative to do so. China has zero interest in any border disputes erupting anywhere in the world. For historical reasons Poland and the Baltics will not and can not accept if Russia annexes Ukraine.

China just signed enormous trade deals with Ukraine to bulk up its silkroad initiative. All this chinese investment would be lost, since the border would be sealed and shut of by Poland. China would not invest in a dead end. You know that as much as i do.

Of course, we oppose Russia's annexation of Ukraine, and we even oppose Russia's annexation of Crimea, because this is a serious violation of international rules.
If a region can vote to join another country, it will lead to chaos in the world order. China itself is one of the makers and main beneficiaries of the current international rules, we are bound to uphold the rules. If we support Russia's approach and Taiwan emulates Crimea, how can we explain our behavior?
But this does not mean that we will agree to use sanctions to destroy Russia's economy, these are two different things. We are willing to strive to safeguard international rules and stop Russia's annexation of Ukraine. But we will not let Russia's economy collapse.

Russia is already poor enough, the last thing EU wants is millions of starving russians storming the borders. So its also not in EU interest to collapse Russia. Its also not in Putins interest. So we agree its best for all to keep the status quo.

 

[tower9]

China will support the EU because its imperative to do so. China has zero interest in any border disputes erupting anywhere in the world. For historical reasons Poland and the Baltics will not and can not accept if Russia annexes Ukraine.

China just signed enormous trade deals with Ukraine to bulk up its silkroad initiative. All this chinese investment would be lost, since the border would be sealed and shut of by Poland. China would not invest in a dead end. You know that as much as i do.

Again, you think because China not supporting Russia’s unilateral annexation equates to China going along with sanctions on Russia. This is nonsense. China supported Russia in 2014 and has all the more reasons to do so now.

 

[MH.Yang]

Wrong, the EU will not accept that Russia annex Ukraine, because that would send out the signal that eastern EU nations like Poland or the baltics are next. The EU can not allow this to happen, not even the slightest.



I think we can do alot. Chinas entire silkroad is build on the premise of the continental duopol of EU and China. If EU brakes away, China can deal with tajikistan and other bongo bongo countries on route.

China will not interfer in that in any way. Infact China just signed gigantic trade contracts with Ukraine to foster that silkroad initiative. The moment Russia tales Ukraine all this would be worthless, simply because Ukraine would become a dead end, just like Belarus.

So Chinas actions speak louder than your words.

Your idea is ridiculous. Our investment in Ukraine does not mean that Ukraine has the ability to coerce China to destroy Russia.
A total of 138 countries have participated in China's B&R program. Do we need to listen to the orders of so many countries? Willing to participate in B&R, we welcome. Want to intimidate China with B&R, get out. Throughout Europe, only Germany has the ability to negotiate with China, because Germany and China have a lot of scientific and technological cooperation. Other countries, not to mention Ukraine, even France and Britain, all can get out.
We have a surplus of more than $600 billion a year, we want to invest this money instead of devaluing it in the world. If there are a lot countries participating in B&R, the average amount of investment per country is less. If there are few countries participating in B&R, the average amount of investment per country is more. It's so simple that any country participating in B&R can give up. Chinese attach importance to Germany because Germany is a partner of China's industrial 4.0 project, only countries that can participate in industrial 4.0 cooperation will not give up easily, for example, Germany, Japan, South Korea, Russia.

 

[tower9]

Your idea is ridiculous. Our investment in Ukraine does not mean that Ukraine has the ability to coerce China to destroy Russia.
A total of 138 countries have participated in China's B&R program. Do we need to listen to the orders of so many countries? Willing to participate in B&R, we welcome. Want to intimidate China with B&R, get out. Throughout Europe, only Germany has the ability to negotiate with China, because Germany and China have a lot of scientific and technological cooperation. Other countries, not to mention Ukraine, even France and Britain, all can get out.

Even Germany will have no influence on China’s strategic relationship with Russia which is crucial to both China’s survival and emergence as a superpower.

 

[Apollon]

Your idea is ridiculous. Our investment in Ukraine does not mean that Ukraine has the ability to coerce China to destroy Russia.
A total of 138 countries have participated in China's B&R program. Do we need to listen to the orders of so many countries? Willing to participate in B&R, we welcome. Want to intimidate China with B&R, get out. Throughout Europe, only Germany has the ability to negotiate with China, because Germany and China have a lot of scientific and technological cooperation. Other countries, not to mention Ukraine, even France and Britain, all can get out.

Belt and Road ends when EU is out. You dont build a road to nowhere

Even Germany will have no influence on China’s strategic relationship with Russia which is crucial to both China’s survival and emergence as a superpower.

I think the best option is to make Ukraine nuclear. It deterres Russia, freezes the status quo and case is closed.

 

[tower9]

Belt and Road ends when EU is out. You dont build a road to nowhere

Then you don’t really understand the calculus behind the BRI.

Yes Europe is an important market. But the BRI is far more than just about building a road to Europe. It is a strategic Marshall plan for a lot of the developing world because China sees that demographic trends will shift the global economy from the west towards the global south. Also the West will never treat China fairly because of White supremacist beliefs so China’s best bet is to help in developing the economies of the global south so these friendly non western countries can eventually develop markets that can rival or surpass European countries. Many already do.

 

[MH.Yang]

Belt and Road ends when EU is out. You dont build a road to nowhere


I think the best option is to make Ukraine nuclear. It deterres Russia, freezes the status quo and case is closed.

Do you really think B&R is the Silk Road and the end must be Europe? Naive, B&R essentially is China needs to invest a large amount of foreign exchange retained in its hands. What we need is investment channels, this is another Marshall Plan. B&R does not have to involve Europe, in fact, the most important participant in B&R is ASEAN.

 

[Stranagor]

EU seems to be the potential casualty here, if things get out of control over the Ukraine situation.

EU, instead of seeking more political autonomy, seems to be shackling itself into US/NATO subjugation. Thus, instead of false alarmism over a faraway place on Russia's next door, the EU should first seek some minimum political/security autonomy from the Atlanticist chokehold.

I believe both Russia and China welcome it.

As it stands, EU whining over Ukrainen autonomy does not seem sincere; they themselves lack it. In that regard, Ukraine may be said to be freer.