UK signs up for first three Type 26 frigates

[UKBengali]

Yep, UK still got RR which provides the top notch turbofan engines for the jetliner, even China still acts humble when it comes to this.

RR is the only company that can go match US engine companies like GE and P&W.

BAE Sampson radar on Type-45 was widely considered to be the best when it came into service in 2009.

India has no technology to offer a country like UK.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

RR is the only company that can go match US engine companies like GE and P&W.

BAE Sampson radar on Type-45 was widely considered to be the best when it came into service in 2009.

India has no technology to offer a country like UK.

Yep, UK got the problems with their AC electrical systems, since China is the master of the DC electrical systems.

Whereas the DC electrical systems can completely solve the problems of the Type 45 and QE class.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

There are not P17s added beyond the first 3, which are 5-7 years into service now. When where and in what form and number P17A will finally emerge? The only building program going fairly well is P15/P15A/P15B with 3/3/4 = 10 ships. Kamorta class is just 4 ships.

By comparision, Talwar class import: 3 + 3 + (eventually) 2 + 2 = 10

Again- none of this justifies India stopping any of those programs. And nothing justifies Britain starting any program at all. QE carrier- estimates are no longer at 3 B (1.5 B per carrier) but between 6 to 12 Billion for the 'program', which as @UKBengali has said has exceptional high technology products like imported GE Engines and F 35. (the cost quoted does not include Aircraft).

Check my post above.

 

[UKBengali]

Again- none of this justifies India stopping any of those programs. And nothing justifies Britain starting any program at all. QE carrier- estimates are no longer at 3 B (1.5 B per carrier) but between 6 to 12 Billion for the 'program', which as @UKBengali has said has exceptional high technology products like imported GE Engines and F 35. (the cost quoted does not include Aircraft).

Check my post above.

QE carrier uses Rolls-Royce engines.

UK is prepared to pay extra to retain it's arms manufacturing base which is the correct thing to do in my opinion.

 

[Sliver]

No matter how you look at it economically it's a lemon. There's nothing so out of the world in this ship that others can't get. For national pride they're shelling out a lot more than they should. They should have bought Indian ships or started a co-joint project with India.

why partner with India when they have a perfectly good ally in the USA?

 

[Penguin]

UK is prepared to pay extra to retain it's arms manufacturing base which is the correct thing to do in my opinion.

Yup.

why partner with India when they have a perfectly good ally in the USA?

Looked at recent US productions in the field of frigates ????

They used to be a time when UK codeveloped with Netherlands (e.g. Van Speijk class frigate, based on Leander, propulsion for subsequent frigates Tromp, Kortenaer, etc. Maybe the Dutch should throw a line ?

 

[Guynextdoor2]

QE carrier uses Rolls-Royce engines.

UK is prepared to pay extra to retain it's arms manufacturing base which is the correct thing to do in my opinion.

No it is split. Different components of the power train and provided by different companies.

http://maritime-executive.com/artic...pulsion-motors-for-giant-uk-aircraft-carriers

Of course the 'premium' is 400%. Surely that is economical. You have built conventional carriers at the cost that the French built nuclear carriers in the 1990s.

why partner with India when they have a perfectly good ally in the USA?

Obvious reason...they'll get overshadowed.

 

[Sliver]

Looked at recent US productions in the field of frigates ????

Obvious reason...they'll get overshadowed.

going by the discussion on having more quantity of ships to reduce costs, the UK can easily partner with the US on a common platform there by increasing the number of hulls over all and economies of scale achieved.

but the point of the question was to drive home the fact - that countries do spend a lot more on defense to be self reliant on at least some core areas.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

going by the discussion on having more quantity of ships to reduce costs, the UK can easily partner with the US on a common platform there by increasing the number of hulls over all and economies of scale achieved.

but the point of the question was to drive home the fact - that countries do spend a lot more on defense to be self reliant on at least some core areas.

Technically the most sensible and economically efficient option for UK was and is to directly order ships/tanks/weapons from the US. But they don't do that because they have to support an identity of major power. Which is silly because at this time their decline in manufacturing is profound and majority of their wealth creation now happens in financial services.
Now since it is therefore clear that we're not dealing with rational actors but people chasing multiple objectives- weapons + national pride, (actually weapons are not that important). Now working with immensely superior tech partners in the US they will be completely overshadowed. Working with early stage defense players with a good cash pile like Reliance or tata a clearer symbiotic relationship emerges. We get tech, they get market. Now this is not the most efficient solution but one that achieves both objectives.

 

[Penguin]

going by the discussion on having more quantity of ships to reduce costs, the UK can easily partner with the US on a common platform there by increasing the number of hulls over all and economies of scale achieved.

but the point of the question was to drive home the fact - that countries do spend a lot more on defense to be self reliant on at least some core areas.

As far a frigates are concerned, the USN will stick with LCS derivatives. I much doubt these would be of interest to the UK. Even if they did switch to a NSC based frigate....

Austal USA frigate design.

https://news.usni.org/2017/04/12/na...ate-competition-expanding-anti-air-capability

Lockheed Martin frigate design

https://news.usni.org/2017/04/12/na...ate-competition-expanding-anti-air-capability

PF 4921 light frigate

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/...lls-industries-gain-traction-internationally/

Mind you, the original National Secutiry Cutter used by USCG comes at unit cost close to US$700 million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Cutter

 

[UKBengali]

Technically the most sensible and economically efficient option for UK was and is to directly order ships/tanks/weapons from the US. But they don't do that because they have to support an identity of major power. Which is silly because at this time their decline in manufacturing is profound and majority of their wealth creation now happens in financial services.
Now since it is therefore clear that we're not dealing with rational actors but people chasing multiple objectives- weapons + national pride, (actually weapons are not that important). Now working with immensely superior tech partners in the US they will be completely overshadowed. Working with early stage defense players with a good cash pile like Reliance or tata a clearer symbiotic relationship emerges. We get tech, they get market. Now this is not the most efficient solution but one that achieves both objectives.

That is not going to happen. Only if the UK was at war will be even think about giving technology to save money.

India will just have to go through the long and painful process of trying to develop it's own tech.

 

[aakash_2410]

Any "joint" UK-India ship will be completely British as their technology is light-years ahead of anything that India can produce.

Lol UK shipbuilding industry IS MORE advanced than that of India's but, a light year is a unit of distance not time.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

That is not going to happen. Only if the UK was at war will be even think about giving technology to save money.

India will just have to go through the long and painful process of trying to develop it's own tech.

You think so? they're saying we can be 'world beaters' with UK tech and Indian Manufacturing strength

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/VV...-transfer-to-India-for-defence-manufactu.html

Not that it's working. The fabled Hawk jets where you put money as Indo-UK collaboration expecting the IAF to be floored isn't going anywhere. You gotta start living in the real world.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/02/exclusive-bae-hal-unveil-joint-advanced-hawk.html

 

[UKBengali]

Lol UK shipbuilding industry IS MORE advanced than that of India's but, a light year is a unit of distance not time.

Figure of speech.

 

[Penguin]

No matter how you look at it economically it's a lemon. There's nothing so out of the world in this ship that others can't get. For national pride they're shelling out a lot more than they should. They should have bought Indian ships or started a co-joint project with India.

Lemon?
As in useless and crappy? Or unsatisfactory or defective? Hardly!
As in expensive? You bet ya.
HOwever, when DoD gives you lemons, you make lemonade.