U.S. to give Pakistan 12 Shadow Drones

[Mercenary]

How hard is it to create an Armed UAV?

I think we can reverse engineer one.

We can use the Cameras and Data Uplink from the Shadow, the engine from the Falco and create our own hardpoints on the wings for a Armed UAV.

What do you guys think?

 

[footmarks]

Here is another Food for Thought!

Robert Gates made this statement in order to divert attention from his earlier statement in India in which he said that India may attack Pakistan due to its limited patience against another Mumbai-type attack. This has caused furore in Pakistan and hence the Americans threw in the 'bait' of giving us the so called drone tech so that we and the media world over starts to chew on this instead!

Like I have said before, US policy is to talk like the Roman's when in Rome!!

Absolutely spot on mate. Us is indeed playing games with both India & Pak, only keeping their strategic interest in mind.

In todays' world, every country is playing games with whatever leverage it has at their disposal. US is destroying Pak and every now & then keep coming with a lollypop like sharing some defence tech. or extending some loans etc. Likewise with India - using India as a strategic tool to keep China at bay. And giving lollypops like lucrative defence deals. China doing the same for using Pak against India, and Pak using militancy to counter India's growing influence in the region.And India using the same to pressurise Pak. Do ki Ladai me Teesre ka Faayda, needless to say- prime beneficiaries are US & China.
Its all a full circle man. And we India & Pak have no choice other than planning our moves within this tight international framework. Considering the complexities of our own mutual relations, I think we are doing just fine. I mean, there are other countries too in south asia, but the most important for international community are just we two- India & Pak. Just type India or Pakistan on google and you will come across numerous articles written about us by prestigious scholars, journalists and THINK Tanks. I dont think any other country has got so much coverage like us. I am just trying to look at the positive side of the coin. not saying whether its good for us or bad. Just think..

 

[Myth_buster_1]

It's not a conspiracy theory.

And it is confirmed by illuminatus aka arms chair general.

The UAVs are being delivered because the US wants something in return from Pakistan.

Its pakistan who is asking for US drones technology! Shadows are given to us so that PAK ARMY can enhance their capability and by no means is Shadow a toy that you can purchase from Ebay.

That something means expanding the WoT in other areas of Pakistan which is on the wish-list of the US.

Oh really?
But all i have to say, quickly run towards GHQ and enlighten our generals about this "US WOT expansion" with 12 drones.

Were you hiding under a stone when the Americans were pressuring Pakistan to expand their war to Baluchistan Quetta? The UAVs aren't being delivered because the US loves Pakistan so much.

Under a stone? buddy looks like you are stoned with conspiracy theories.
My brother is in the army and currently stationed in Baluchistan and he understands the ground reality then any of us in here.
His words.
Their is heavy US and Indian intelligence presence in baluchistan and obviously they are not here to help Pakistan.
Army and the COAS wont let any US troop to conduct any operation in side pak territory be it Baluchistan or any part of pakistan. However this wonderful democratic government of pakistan's intention is something else. And sadly the GOP is doing very very little to prevent this and even without any GOP orders they are still cracking down anti-pak elements in Baluchistan.

Secondly, like I've already explained that it isn't free lunch. The UAVs will come with many strings attached. The US will demand Pakistan to do more. The US will have another reason to bash Pakistan when they feel like.

And you think Pakistan army is so freaking cheap to sell out for just 12 freaking UAV shadows which is to help them? Are you even in your senses? boy you really make some hotttt masala news...

LOL You're either living in a cave or don't know what you're talking about. The F-16s have so many strings attached to them that the PAF isn't even allowed to use them freely. Get your facts straight buddy. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Read on:

Oh sir.. at the moment. you perfectly define "arms chair general". You seem to sound like PAF and Army knows nothing. and here we have self proclaimed commander of GHQ saying US is demanding our military for self destruction with delivery of just 12 shadow UAV. lol lol lol. what a joker you are.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/43112-paf-get-eight-new-f-16-a.html#post606193

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/43112-paf-get-eight-new-f-16-a.html#post606208

Our air force cut the number of F-16s for a reason. Despite the restrictions the handful of advanced F-16 Block 52 will serve as a learning platform which will benefit JF-17. 18 F-16s suffice such a goal.

Champion of conspiracy theories you seem to know soo much about the reality why dont you give a kick in PAF's butt and tell them to stop wasting money on 4+ billion dollars F-16 deal because their are strings attached... kid. do you even know. before any military equipment is put to operational. everything is striped down and inspected. You can kid around with your keyboard but i rather chose to believe in our military views then a kid who is acting like a arms chair general.

Stop being dillusional! We already have better UAVs in our inventory and don't need another one. PA requires UCAVs which can stay airborne for days if not weeks. UCAVs that can strike with missiles when the target is acquired. UCAVs that can serve both purposes of intelligence gathering and eliminating legitimate targets. UCAVs with longer range, higher altitude and better endurance. Also, I've already suggested other ways of acquiring UCAVs instead of accepting mediocre UAVs from the US which will serve only one purpose. Namely, blackmail and harassment. Read my previous posts before making silly statements like the COAS should sit idle. I've long before suggested ways of acquiring this much needed capability through China or/and by supporting our home-grown UAV industry! Don't put words in my mouth or accuse me of something I've never claimed.

wait wait wait a moment.
SO according to your analogy after delivery of 12 Shadow UAVs US will demand Pakistan for self destruction so Predator drones means total wipe Pakistan off the map?

 

[HAIDER]

Only good thing about these plane, they are silent and precision night vision camera. If Pakistan UAV has both these quality, no one know. They might be NATO datalink...Endurance is better then Pak UAVs ???

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Only good thing about these plane, they are silent and precision night vision camera. If Pakistan UAV has both these quality, no one know. They might be NATO datalink...Endurance is better then Pak UAVs ???

At the moment only falco will be superior to Shadow.

 

[HAIDER]

Falco is capable of night operations..?

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

now what Pakistan need to do is to shoot down a single predator by the help of locally hired Taliban using GUN or SAM missile(which is launched from bazooka type launcher) and get the wreckage,do the reverse engineering and make a beast by mixing SHADOW,FALCO and Chinese help.
like we produce RAAD and BABUR combination of TOMAHAWK,SOUTH AFRICAN and CHINESE TECS.

if they are dealing in this way then show them what we can do.

 

[nitetrogen70]

salam brother's i was just wondering in order to get a job as a militray engineer in pakistan where do you ahve to go? btw im going to start engineering next year bum im a littel confused at which field i should join any opnion's?

 

[mshoaib61]

Comparison of Rq-7 shadow UAV and Pakistan Falco UAV

RQ-7 Shadow 200 Tactical UAV

The air vehicle is constructed of composite materials, with a wingspan of 12.3 feet, and length of 11.2 feet. Power is provided by a commercial 38-horsepower rotary engine that uses motor gasoline (MOGAS).
The payload has a commercially available electro-optic and infrared camera, and communications equipment for command and control and imagery dissemination. Onboard global positioning system instrumentation provides navigation information.

The air vehicle is intended to provide coverage of a brigade area of interest for up to four hours, at 50 kilometers from the launch and recovery site. The maximum range is 125 kilometers (limited by data link capability), and operations are generally conducted from 8,000 to 10,000 feet above ground level during the day and 6,000 to 8,000 feet above ground level at night.

The air vehicle uses a pneumatic launcher and is recovered by a tactical automatic landing system without pilot intervention on the runway. The air vehicle is stopped using an arresting hook and cable system.

Procurement cost for the Command and Control Suite, as well as two units of the Shadow 200 run at approximately $36 million. individual units of the Shadow 200 run at about $275,000 apiece.



Pakistan UAV FALCO

Falco is a state-of-the-art medium-altitude endurance and tactical unmanned air vehicle (UAV) designed and manufactured by the Italian sensors developer Selex Galileo.
Though the Falco UAV is large enough to accommodate both a missile and targeting system, it will currently be used for only reconnaissance and surveillance applications. Falco will be equipped with laser-guided missiles in the future to carry out offensive operations. The Falco UAV has one hard point on each wing and will carry a load capacity of up to 25kg.


FALCO UAV NEXT GENERATION PATROL SOLUTION:

The Falco UAV system is SELEX Galileo solution for 7/24
all-weather persistent surveillance needs. The Falco
applications range from border patrol, coastal watch,
law enforcement to power and pipelines surveillance,
environmental monitoring, oil spills and fire prevention.
It’s endurance, wide suite of payloads, integrated Ground
Control Station make it the best solution for emerging
surveillance needs of remote infrastructures such as
pipelines, power plants, offshore oil and gas fields requiring,
day / night accurate and real-time detection of threats such
as oil leaks and thefts, fires and sabotages.

THE UAV: A CRITICAL ASSET FOR PIPELINES SURVEILLANCE
• Remote, dangerous locations and conditions where the
Falco can fly for up to 14 hours with basic surveillance
payload without refuelling
• Fully redundant, fault tolerant architecture
• Minimal refuelling and lower maintenance and flying
costs compared to rotary or fixed wing aircraft
• Ability to fly at night
• Automated way-points based missions can be flown from
take-off to landing, including beyond radio-link coverage
• The complete Falco system is deployable by 5 people in
only 4 hours.

The Falco pilot has full authority over the aircraft and
mission at all times thanks to the availability of three
operation modes:
• Manual: featuring full pilot control through HUD
navigation and EFIS style console
• Semi-auto: based on “go-to-loiter-point” with the
destination selected on a digital map and feasibility
checks and validation prior to the mission
• Full-auto: way-point and straight leg navigation, where
points can be included in theflight programmes, feasibility
checks performed and emergency way-point associated
with each leg.

GROUND CONTROL STATION
The Falco Ground Control Station enables mission planning
and retasking, mission simulation for operator training, mission
rehearsal and play back.
From the GCS, the operator can either control payloads and
sensors and handle the collected data in real time or to
pre-program their tasks during the mission planning phase,
enhancing UAV autonomous operation features.
The aircraft can be flown in manual and in fully automatic
mode, including automatic take off and landing operations.
The Ground Control Station is capable of off-line target data
evaluation and processing, for further diffusion.
The Ground Data Terminal provides more than-200 Km
redundant link range between the Ground Control Station
and the Falco air vehicle, through real time data transmission
(optionally jam-resistant). The GCS is fitted in a container and
can be easily trasported and deployed.

 

[illuminatus]

^^ Basically, Falco wipes the floor with Shadow. I don't need to plead my case any more. PA requires a UCAV at this point. Enough said.

 

[illuminatus]

And it is confirmed by illuminatus aka arms chair general.

So, now that you cannot counter my arguments you're turning to distasteful cynicism? I can accuse you of many things, but I won't do that. That's just not my style of countering arguments rationally.

Its pakistan who is asking for US drones technology! Shadows are given to us so that PAK ARMY can enhance their capability and by no means is Shadow a toy that you can purchase from Ebay.

Pakistan is asking for armed drones and not UAVs! The Americans know this very well. Unarmed drones are being promised, but they don't comply with PAs request. PA already operates unarmed drones with better capabilities such as Falco and other domestically produced UAVs. Shadow may not be a toy, but it certainly doesn't add any value to PAs ongoing operations in the WoT. At least, not the required amount of added value so to speak.

Oh really?
But all i have to say, quickly run towards GHQ and enlighten our generals about this "US WOT expansion" with 12 drones.
Under a stone? buddy looks like you are stoned with conspiracy theories.

Why should I run to the GHQ when the silence speaks volumes. Had our Generals been so jolly with the delivery of 12 UAVs I'm sure we would have heard some level of appreciation and seen some form of celebration. Indeed, you have been living under a stone and your silly rants confirm this. You have been lying stoned under a stone which makes you so blind and incapable of grasping the bitter reality.

My brother is in the army and currently stationed in Baluchistan and he understands the ground reality then any of us in here.
His words.

Big deal. You don't impress me with this arrogant attitude. I've relatives that are also stationed all over the country and serving in the PA. In fact, I've relatives that serve in the PN, PA and PAF which I meet and greet very often. They too are very much aware of the ground realities.

Their is heavy US and Indian intelligence presence in baluchistan and obviously they are not here to help Pakistan.

Something we at last agree on. Thank God you don't label that one as a conspiracy theory. Just out of curiosity, why is that you conveniently label anything that you disagree with as a conspiracy theory?

Army and the COAS wont let any US troop to conduct any operation in side pak territory be it Baluchistan or any part of pakistan. However this wonderful democratic government of pakistan's intention is something else. And sadly the GOP is doing very very little to prevent this and even without any GOP orders they are still cracking down anti-pak elements in Baluchistan.

I know that very well. COAS has made that abundantly clear. However, don't believe everything you read and hear. The Americans have been operating drones from Pakistani soil. Something that the Pakistani authorities have been denying for a very long time. I'm not going to point any fingers, but any sane being can judge for himself which parties agreed and were involved in such a behind closed door agreement. The inept approach adopted by the GoP is evident and needs no further elaboration.

And you think Pakistan army is so freaking cheap to sell out for just 12 freaking UAV shadows which is to help them? Are you even in your senses? boy you really make some hotttt masala news...

When did I say that the PA is going to accept this lousy offer? Again, you're assuming out of the blue and putting words in my mouth. I'm merely pleading that I explicitly oppose this lousy UAV offer. I have already gone in quite detail why I oppose this offer which you for some very odd reason aren't willing to understand. I also believe that the PA is wise enough to decide whether this offer is worth accepting or not. You don't need to convince me of that. Buddy, you're just hallucinating some hot masala news.

Oh sir.. at the moment. you perfectly define "arms chair general". You seem to sound like PAF and Army knows nothing. and here we have self proclaimed commander of GHQ saying US is demanding our military for self destruction with delivery of just 12 shadow UAV. lol lol lol. what a joker you are.

Again, you're just hallucinating and seeing ghosts. Where did I specifically claim that PAF or PA know nothing? Instead of making these wild imaginative accusations I suggest you to quote me. Provide me with substantial proof where I claim all this garbage that you accuse me of. Whatever opinion I express should not be taken out of context. As far as the joker comment is concerned, I won't stoop myself to your level. I don't feel offended in any way. The mature members of this forum now know how low you can stoop by insulting other members with bad names. You're a sore loser that cannot counter arguments rationally. Are you actually a senior member of this forum? Jeez, that's very hard for me to believe.

Champion of conspiracy theories you seem to know soo much about the reality why dont you give a kick in PAF's butt and tell them to stop wasting money on 4+ billion dollars F-16 deal because their are strings attached... kid. do you even know. before any military equipment is put to operational. everything is striped down and inspected. You can kid around with your keyboard but i rather chose to believe in our military views then a kid who is acting like a arms chair general.

Again, loads of accusations and insults. You truly lack self-respect. I've provided you with substantial proof, yet you only accuse and abuse me for confronting you with facts. Well, I'm unfazed by your childish behaviour. All you've done is exposed your childish behaviour to everyone on this forum. I know exactly why you're on fire and acting so bizarrely strange. You're not able to confront my arguments. Your ego is filled with anger and you're turning this into a bashing contest. I'm not going to be part of your bashing contest. Just one advice, cool down and don't rant in anger. You're making a fool out of yourself.

There indeed are strings attached to the F-16 deal. To prove this a quote from my earlier post in another thread:

"The deal states that PAF must comply with the approved security plans for their F-16-related bases and facilities before the US release any systems in the sale. The US will have a presence to monitor compliance with the security plan requirements, a very enhanced and end-use monitoring programme. Routine access to F-16 aircraft equipment and munitions is in restricted areas and limited to Pakistan air force personnel that are pre-approved for such. There is a two-man rule, so to speak, for access to this equipment and restricted areas, and F-16 flights outside of Pakistan must be approved in advance by the United States government etc."

I've already stated that PAF has cut the number of F-16s to be purchased. The new F-16s are meant as a learning platform. The F-16 is a mature and battle proven platform which will be of immense value as an input to further improve the JF-17s. What else can be the reason for the acquisition of advanced F-16s in such low and ineffective numbers?

wait wait wait a moment.
SO according to your analogy after delivery of 12 Shadow UAVs US will demand Pakistan for self destruction so Predator drones means total wipe Pakistan off the map?

The US will apply pressure on Pakistan. They will use this as an opportunity to blackmail. The US applies a so-called carrot and stick approach. They did this when they provided billions of dollars (reimbursement of expenses) during Bush tenure. The Americans will use just about any excuse to malign Pakistan in order to apply pressure. The Americans will not rest until their demands are met. Demands that aren't in the interest of Pakistan. Get that through your thick skull and stop acting like a lunatic.

PS. Your turn...

 

[Creder]

This that wheat for F-16 BS all over again... Atleast as far as I read US offered these drones but Pakistan hasn't accepted them yet .. Is that true or is this "poor"ject already on the go

 

[graphican]

Some of Military Offical said that possibility (chances in near future) US will also agree to sell Predator as well. Let see...

"Filhaal may sooch ye raha ho kay iskay badlay Zardari nay kya diya hoga hmmmmm" lol

Astakfirullah, why am I thinking so bad in regard to "Zardari ne badle me kya kya dia hoga".

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Astakfirullah, why am I thinking so bad in regard to "Zardari ne badle me kya kya dia hoga".

mat socho bhai us ke pass denay ko kuch nahin hai.magar lenay k lie boht kuch hai american senetors

 

[pathankhan]

Zardari Beemari kay pass dainay ko saraa Pakistan paraa hai. Khaa jaye ga sab kuch or dakaar bhee naheen maray ga.