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U.S. defense firms begin adjusting Turkish F-35 exit

Kailash Kumar

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U.S. defense firms begin adjusting Turkish F-35 exit

Apr 05 2019

Leading American defense firms Lockheed Martin and Raytheon are gearing up to make major adjustments to their F-35 new generation fighter jets' production line to deal with the potential exit of Turkish manufacturers from the supply chain, American news outlet CNBC reported.

The United States government has been issuing warnings to the Turkish government for years not to purchase the Russian air defence system due to its potential threats to U.S. state-of-the-art fighter jets.

Turkish officials have attempted to reassure the Western alliance by promising to deploy the F-35s and S-400s separately and with no links to one another, but their efforts appear to have failed.

U.S. Vice President Mike Pence issued the sternest warning yet to Ankara this week during NATO meetings in Washington. The U.S. vice president came close to threatening Turkey with not only expulsion from the F-35 project but also from NATO. Fortunately for Turkey, there is no withdrawal or expulsion mechanism present in the alliance.

CNBC wrote:

If Turkey goes through with the Russian deal, Lockheed Martin would have to rework its supply chain on components for the F-35 fighter jet, while also making changes to its production schedule. Yet if Turkey abandons its deal with Russia, Raytheon would reorganize the Patriot missile defense system production schedule to guarantee that Turkey could receive the missile system within a faster time frame.

According to another report published by Air Force Times, Turkey's decision to purchase and receive S-400 batteries raises the question of whether the country should be in NATO.

“It’s astounding to see everyone in the same direction on this,” Rick Berger, a defense budget and military acquisition researcher at AEI and former Senate Budget Committee staffer told Air Force Times.

Air Force Times's reporter Kyle Rempfer concluded in his report that "if Turkey acquired the S-400 alongside the F-35, the technology that makes that aircraft lethal could potentially be compromised."

NATO states use a tactical data link that allows military aircraft and even ships and ground troops to share their tactical pictures in near-real time. This is called Link 16. NATO aircraft also use Identification Friend or Foe systems, known as IFF, to identify friendly aircraft in the sky.

An IFF and Link 16 interrogator would have to be integrated into the S-400 system to allow the Turkish F-35, with the transponder, to fly within lethal range of the S-400.

This opens up all Link 16 and IFF tactical data link equipment to be compromised, a former radar and weapons expert said on background.

“With the F-35 flying in close proximity to the S-400 system, over time, you could collect sensitive stealth characteristics of this F-35 and learn its detailed stealth capabilities,” the expert said.

https://ahvalnews.com/us-turkey/us-defense-firms-begin-adjusting-turkish-f-35-exit
 
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“With the F-35 flying in close proximity to the S-400 system, over time, you could collect sensitive stealth characteristics of this F-35 and learn its detailed stealth capabilities,” the expert said.
As I said precariously its a laughable excuse as Russia can gather the data easily from Israel airplanes . as they didn't really need any S400 to protect their base in Syria . the presence of the system only meant one thing they want it only to gather data.
 
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As I said precariously its a laughable excuse as Russia can gather the data easily from Israel airplanes . as they didn't really need any S400 to protect their base in Syria . the presence of the system only meant one thing they want it only to gather data.
No they can't, Russia can't even detect the F-35s.
 
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No they can't, Russia can't even detect the F-35s.
Yes, they do not have reliable infrastructure for this job. Arguments to the contrary are 'all hype little substance'.

This is probably the first indirect admission of Israeli F-35 in action over Syria in the public: https://www.almasdarnews.com/articl...s-300-system-during-israeli-attack-on-aleppo/

Russian-origin defenses failed to do anything about it.

As I said precariously its a laughable excuse as Russia can gather the data easily from Israel airplanes . as they didn't really need any S400 to protect their base in Syria . the presence of the system only meant one thing they want it only to gather data.
Far from easy actually.

This is time-consuming exercise, and there is a limit to what kind of assets Russia can deploy in Syria for the needful because NATO is there and monitoring everything. Secondly, F-35 is an extremely elusive bird in itself. Best of luck.

Turkey is the best possible avenue through which Russia can hope to learn something of value about F-35 but Turkey is willing to compartmentalize this matter, and allow US to tinker with S-400 systems if need be. Behind-the-scenes stuff...
 
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I have to say, Turkeys decision making cycle in this is odd. The S400 is not worth losing the F35 over !!!!! Odd. Sometimes you need to bury your pride and make logical decisions and not those on pride or emotions.
 
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The loss of Turkey on the F-35 program is a great win for Kongsberg and Raytheon. Their jointly marketed JSM is rivaled by Turkey's SOM-J as the only two cruise missiles capable of being housed internally on the F-35.

180227-F-HP195-1070-copy.jpg


mfc-som-j-0070.jpg.pc-adaptive.full.medium.jpeg


JSM has already been purchased by F-35 users Norway, Australia, Japan and the United States, with Poland a likely candidate alongside the UK and the Netherlands. Leaving for being forced to leave the F-35 program leaves Turkey at a loss in marketing SOM-J to F-35 customers, as it was intended. SOM was already a tough sell to NATO and F-35 partners versus JSM, now it's nearly impossible.
 
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No they can't, Russia can't even detect the F-35s.
If Russia can't receive any useful from the best version of the system he has under his control .

How then they can gather the needed data from the export version of the system which is under the control of another country.

This is time-consuming exercise, and there is a limit to what kind of assets Russia can deploy in Syria for the needful because NATO is there and monitoring everything. Secondly, F-35 is an extremely elusive bird in itself. Best of luck.
The system in Syria is full version . turkey only get the export version .
 
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How then they can gather the needed data from the export version of the system which is under the control of another country.
F-35s in Turkey would fly right next to the S-400's radar, within direct line of sight. Besides that, I have no idea. But surely the US has its reasons.
 
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Turkey will benefit from a F-35 exit and any other arms embargo.

The Yankees just need to transfer the invested money back, get their stuff together and fvck off from bases in TR.
 
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Seems like downhill in Turkish US relations ever since failed coup backed by fatheullah gullen who in turn was backed by US and major EU powers. This is a great opportunity for turkey to diversify it assets and change camps. Also great opportunity to tell all yanks to get the **** off its bases.
 
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I have to say, Turkeys decision making cycle in this is odd. The S400 is not worth losing the F35 over !!!!! Odd. Sometimes you need to bury your pride and make logical decisions and not those on pride or emotions.


If we let S-400 go they will still not sell F35.
 
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The system in Syria is full version . turkey only get the export version .
The full version failed to pick on Tomahawk cruise missiles when they were only 35 KM away from its position FYI; extremely small rcs + EW + terrain-hugging flight approach = win.

S-400's radar coverage drastically shrink for VLO aircraft (rcs factor). Radar coverage mentioned on the brochure is valid for 3m^2 rcs - standard reference.
 
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U.S. defense firms begin adjusting Turkish F-35 exit

Apr 05 2019

Leading American defense firms Lockheed Martin and Raytheon are gearing up to make major adjustments to their F-35 new generation fighter jets' production line to deal with the potential exit of Turkish manufacturers from the supply chain, American news outlet CNBC reported.

The United States government has been issuing warnings to the Turkish government for years not to purchase the Russian air defence system due to its potential threats to U.S. state-of-the-art fighter jets.

Turkish officials have attempted to reassure the Western alliance by promising to deploy the F-35s and S-400s separately and with no links to one another, but their efforts appear to have failed.

U.S. Vice President Mike Pence issued the sternest warning yet to Ankara this week during NATO meetings in Washington. The U.S. vice president came close to threatening Turkey with not only expulsion from the F-35 project but also from NATO. Fortunately for Turkey, there is no withdrawal or expulsion mechanism present in the alliance.

CNBC wrote:

If Turkey goes through with the Russian deal, Lockheed Martin would have to rework its supply chain on components for the F-35 fighter jet, while also making changes to its production schedule. Yet if Turkey abandons its deal with Russia, Raytheon would reorganize the Patriot missile defense system production schedule to guarantee that Turkey could receive the missile system within a faster time frame.

According to another report published by Air Force Times, Turkey's decision to purchase and receive S-400 batteries raises the question of whether the country should be in NATO.

“It’s astounding to see everyone in the same direction on this,” Rick Berger, a defense budget and military acquisition researcher at AEI and former Senate Budget Committee staffer told Air Force Times.

Air Force Times's reporter Kyle Rempfer concluded in his report that "if Turkey acquired the S-400 alongside the F-35, the technology that makes that aircraft lethal could potentially be compromised."

NATO states use a tactical data link that allows military aircraft and even ships and ground troops to share their tactical pictures in near-real time. This is called Link 16. NATO aircraft also use Identification Friend or Foe systems, known as IFF, to identify friendly aircraft in the sky.

An IFF and Link 16 interrogator would have to be integrated into the S-400 system to allow the Turkish F-35, with the transponder, to fly within lethal range of the S-400.

This opens up all Link 16 and IFF tactical data link equipment to be compromised, a former radar and weapons expert said on background.

“With the F-35 flying in close proximity to the S-400 system, over time, you could collect sensitive stealth characteristics of this F-35 and learn its detailed stealth capabilities,” the expert said.

https://ahvalnews.com/us-turkey/us-defense-firms-begin-adjusting-turkish-f-35-exit
Diplomatic issue and nothing more. Same US is offering India F35 and they also taking delivery of S400.
 
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The full version failed to pick on Tomahawk cruise missiles when they were only 35 KM away from its position FYI; extremely small rcs + EW + terrain-hugging flight approach = win.

S-400's radar coverage drastically shrink for VLO aircraft (rcs factor). Radar coverage mentioned on the brochure is valid for 3m^2 rcs - standard reference.
When I see somebody hit Russian equipment under the umbrella of the system I agree that .
And what you are discussing its not me who says USA because of fear of f35 being compromised is against the sale of it to turkey . it's what USA officials say so if you have anything to say go and say it to them as I said it's completely nonsense reason not to sell the airplane to turkey .
 
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-- The US will pay billions of dollars penalty to Turkey ( Turkey is not customer , Turkey is a global partner of F-35 program since 1999 and Turkey invested $1,2 billion for F-35 program )

-- Turks will be happy not to pay $10 billion for useless American control F-35s .... ( S-400 will use Turkish Radar software and IFF System )

-- Turkey needs Defensive weapons , ( S-400 and maybe also S-500 with HISAR , SIPER , GUMS Air Defense Systems , GOKTUG land based air defense Missile and TF-2000 class AAW Destroyers will protect Turkey from Ballistic and Cruise Missiles , Strategic Bombers and Fighter Jets )

btw without F-35s still Turkish Armed Forces will have the great strike capability to engage on targets in Greece,Israel,Egypt,Iran

... 280 km KHAN Tactical Ballistic Missile
... 1.000 km BORA Ballistic Missile
... 800 km GEZGIN land and naval based Cruise Missiles
... 300 km SOM air launched Cruise Missile
... 500+ km SOM-ER air launched Cruise Missile

Turkish Airforce has 163 CCIP modernized F-16C/D to carry SOM air launched Cruise Missiles
Turkey develops AKINCI and MIUS UCAVs and HURJET light attack Jet to carry SOM air launched Cruise Missile
also Turkey develops TF-X 5th gen Fighter Jet


-- Turkey will have right to work with Russia for another military projects such as S-500 air defense system , to develop 5th gen Fighter Jet and turbofan engine

maybe also to buy SU-35 - SU-57 Fighter Jets with Turkish systems


-- Turkish Armed Forces will destroy the US-Israel backed all PKK/YPG Terrorists in N.Syria ( Our national security and interestss more important than useless American control F-35 )

-- in 1975 the US started arms embargo on Turkey and Turks kicked all American personel and equipments out of Turkey in 1976 ( so Turkey again can kick ll American personel and equipments including American AN/TPY2 Radar out of Turkey )



so the US will lose many things
 
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