U.S. bristles at stiff Pakistani NATO fees

[Jango]

US cannot ignore us until the pullout, and pullout means much more than mere supplies passing through. The Obama-karzai deal under the cover of night does have significant impressions on Pakistan and our mindset, but out role is still a big one.

 

[BATMAN]

Was Zardari state guest or was he denied of this honor, as well?

 

[lem34]

Depends on whether the objective was to get them to bristle or it was to gain strategic importance.. Because if it was second, Pakistan by now has lost all chances of that..

It was to let them know that Pakistan can say NO

 

[BATMAN]

It was to let them know that Pakistan can say NO

Four trucks carrying supplies for US cross Torkham | DAWN.COM

 

[somebozo]

The only problem is that treating this deal as a transaction keeps the relationship as between a seller and a buyer of services; it short changes Pakistan's desire to be treated and accepted as a strategically important nation, preferably on par with India. And that is simply is not possible going forward.

Your assumptions are wrong we need this money to secure the transit route and develop the infrastructure to aviod lethal supplies from falling in the hands of dissidents..as simple as that.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Depends on whether the objective was to get them to bristle or it was to gain strategic importance.. Because if it was second, Pakistan by now has lost all chances of that..

I keep hearing that, the loss of strategic significance, but as I have pointed out repeatedly, what was the US offering prior to the blockade that would have enhanced Pakistans strategic significance?

Four trucks carrying supplies for US cross Torkham | DAWN.COM

Embassy supplies - apparently 17 such shipments have ocurred since the blockade.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

our land, our business......nuff said


my advice to them, if they are unwilling to pay would be

a.) find an alternative route

b.) the "usual" (threaten to cut non-existant 'aid' or just cancel the CSF program)




it's our country and we can do whatever we damn-well please

Michael Scheuer, apart from being an adjunct professor and having years of experience "in the field", is not currently in any position of power

and for that sole reason, he can be clear-headed and to the point without worrying about a letter arriving to his desk saying "thank you for your service, but you're out"

Four trucks carrying supplies for US cross Torkham | DAWN.COM

carrying xerox paper, staples, ballpoint pens and printer cartridges

 

[VCheng]

I keep hearing that, the loss of strategic significance, but as I have pointed out repeatedly, what was the US offering prior to the blockade that would have enhanced Pakistans strategic significance?
.............

So rather than trying pursue policies that would enhance its strategic importance, Pakistan realizes that it has lost all such claims and is merely trying to make as much money till 2014. Okay, after those few billions run out, what then?

Do you realize how ironic it is for you to say that USA should have been offering something to enhance Pakistan's strategic importance in the first place. Isn't it up to PAKISTAN to create its own strategic significance by proper policies of internal development and external engagement?

 

[Jango]

Has anybody else noticed a different stance by Pakistan at NATO conference and other arenas that no talk of supplies, drones, or anything, and only apology apology.

A back door deal done perhaps? New drone framework agreed and all, and the government is just waiting for US to do it, and then government can brag about it for their election campaign.

 

[VCheng]

Has anybody else noticed a different stance by Pakistan at NATO conference and other arenas that no talk of supplies, drones, or anything, and only apology apology.

A back door deal done perhaps? New drone framework agreed and all, and the government is just waiting for US to do it, and then government can brag about it for their election campaign.

All will be revealed soon enough. Any arrangements agreed upon cannot remain hidden for long.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Here is a little lesson on US bartering, or white man's bartering and psychology. Never settle on the first price.
If Pakistan went asking for 300 USD per container the US would refuse that, too calling it steep and mentioning their dire economical situation.

On paper 5,000 USD sounds a lot but not as much as what they're paying through alternate routes. You want to barter with the white man you send in people who know the art of squeezing water out of a rock. Zardari currently fits that bill pretty well.

as someone who loves business negotiations and the excitement that comes with it (i hope i dont come across as someone claiming to be inking crore dollar deals for breakfast, because that's far from the truth) -- I completelyy agree with you

but it's simple economics, doesnt require a bachelors or an MBA:


USA: has other options, but insists on the Pakistani route given that it's cheaper to offload from a port and then truck the goods right across the border


Pakistan: having been royally and consistently misled and screwed over by people with no vision, no pride -- realizes that while in the past it was "Fashionable" to give concession after concession after concession (one after the other) -- that now it's a matter of common sense (in an otherwise nonsensical situation). Those trucks pollute (like any moving vehicle with an internal combustion engine); some leave marks or debris on the road, or potholes....they add to the traffic; and obviously - they are using a public good & service (the road itself)


******, banter, flap arms, turn red and bristle.......but just know this, it's very simple and basic.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

So rather than trying pursue policies that would enhance its strategic importance, Pakistan realizes that it has lost all such claims and is merely trying to make as much money till 2014. Okay, after those few billions run out, what then?

Do you realize how ironic it is for you to say that USA should have been offering something to enhance Pakistan's strategic importance in the first place. Isn't it up to PAKISTAN to create its own strategic significance by proper policies of internal development and external engagement?

since red lines were (apparently) not drawn out earlier on and since both sides (during talks of "strategic" importance) discussed means rather than distant outcomes --- it would appear that Pakistan has been bumbling through the process and in fact was "seeing how things would play out"

U.S. did the same.....


now you have mutual interests, some mutual objectives, but generally an impasse over implementation. When disrespect became part of the equation, it was only then that the U.S./NATOs dealt a major blow (to itself)


and proof of that is the fact that an apology (one that's well deserved) has not been given

 

[BATMAN]

Embassy supplies - apparently 17 such shipments have ocurred since the blockade.

Only this one incident was reported.

 

[r3alist]

Do you realize how ironic it is for you to say that USA should have been offering something to enhance Pakistan's strategic importance in the first place. Isn't it up to PAKISTAN to create its own strategic significance by proper policies of internal development and external engagement?

Dude, that was a non starter, to understand the pak us/pak relationship you simply need to listen to what Musharraf was told about being bombed back to the stoneage - there's no room for strategic development when America is acting like a global mafia boss.

 

[Pfpilot]

as someone who loves business negotiations and the excitement that comes with it (i hope i dont come across as someone claiming to be inking crore dollar deals for breakfast, because that's far from the truth) -- I completelyy agree with you

but it's simple economics, doesnt require a bachelors or an MBA:


USA: has other options, but insists on the Pakistani route given that it's cheaper to offload from a port and then truck the goods right across the border


Pakistan: having been royally and consistently misled and screwed over by people with no vision, no pride -- realizes that while in the past it was "Fashionable" to give concession after concession after concession (one after the other) -- that now it's a matter of common sense (in an otherwise nonsensical situation). Those trucks pollute (like any moving vehicle with an internal combustion engine); some leave marks or debris on the road, or potholes....they add to the traffic; and obviously - they are using a public good & service (the road itself)


******, banter, flap arms, turn red and bristle.......but just know this, it's very simple and basic.

The disagreement on Pakistan's stance has as much to do with leverage as it does with right or wrong. Negotiations take place on a playing field leveled based on the underlying leverage of each party; thanks to your real world experience, I'm sure you'd understand this better than me.

The problem is the position of the USA is one of want, not need. The Americans, as the premier superpower have endless routes to choose from and can strong arm a whole host of nations to let them funnel in supplies. They insist on using the Pakistani route, because it is cheaper, not because it is the only route. There in lies the problem, the Americans can easily switch routes at a cost that will be irrelevant in what has now become a trillion dollar adventure over the last decade.

The fact that they haven't speaks to their confidence that they hold enough of the cards to pressure Pakistan into eventually giving in; were this to not take place, they can just as easily use that to their advantage. By constantly refusing to let supplies through, Pakistan is playing into the perception of a nation that is unwilling to help, and at worst, standing in the way of the fight against extremism and terrorism. While you and me agree that is largely unfair and incredibly biased; as the foremost military and media power, the American opinion and spin carries far more weight. By using Pakistan's position to incriminate itself, the US is doing far more damage to the Pakistani position from a political as well as an economic standpoint.

While we may disagree on the correct way to go about this, I fear the worst case scenario for Pakistan in this negotiation is far worse than the one faced by the Americans. If we lose this time, we may have just sacrificed the long term prosperity and strategic relevance of our nation. If the Americans come out on the bottom, they will simply swallow the loss of a few extra billion and find another way...or my greatest worry, become far more aggressive in enforcing their will on Pakistan. The unfortunately reality is that no one has the ability to withstand the true force of American aggression, the paranoia of which was enough to destroy the USSR.