U.S. asks Vietnam to stop helping Russian bomber flights

[William Hung]

Ah yes Vietnam showed their support to PH legal case, the same day whitehouse published an analysis criticise on Nine dashed line. It has some implications.

Yes I don't think that was a coincident. I think there was at least some discussion under the table between US-VN-Philippines.

Let's wait and see what VietNam's decision will be regarding Russia using Cam Ranh.

Yes, but VN also presented its side of the claims to the tribunal, but yes, I think there is a grand agreement on what to do in Jan 2016. A lot is cooking towards that. Its already very clear that Phili and VN are on the same page.

I don't have my notes with me but there are some reefs currently in VN's possession, that if China lose the Arbitration case, then VN will lose those reefs too (that's if the Philippines decide to fight a legal case against VN). The only advantage VN has (which China doesn't) is that VN currently possess and admistrate some real Islands in the area, so reefs within the territorial water of those Island can stay in VN's hand. but there are some reefs outside that VN will have to give up, if the Philippines ask the court to make a ruling against VN. But most likely there is already some agreement made between VN-Philippines.

 

[Carlosa]

Yes I don't think that was a coincident. I think there was at least some discussion under the table between US-VN-Philippines.

Let's wait and see what VietNam's decision will be regarding Russia using Cam Ranh.



I don't have my notes with me but there are some reefs currently in VN's possession, that if China lose the Arbitration case, then VN will lose those reefs too (that's if the Philippines decide to fight a legal case against VN). The only advantage VN has (which China doesn't) is that VN currently possess and admistrate some real Islands in the area, so reefs within the territorial water of those Island can stay in VN's hand. but there are some reefs outside that VN will have to give up, if the Philippines ask the court to make a ruling against VN. But most likely there is already some agreement made between VN-Philippines.

I think its no problem and in that case that situation will probably open up a new arbitration case between Phili and VN because VN is also supposed to have the opportunity of presenting its case and the way it usually works is that actual historical possession is more important than the 200 mile EEZ and VN had possession for quite some time already. Phili claims are actually quite new. China on the other hand, never had possession of anything in the Spratlys, they took by force (1988) or encroached after someone else already had made claims, so they are the ones that are in a very weak position.

 

[hans]

Only because China is powerful to change the current situation.
While PHI is too weak to change anything in SCS..
They are enemy of Vietnam if no China presence..
Yet when Vietnam facing great pressure from China, two enemy gather to fight together..

Also remember that if the Philippines wins the case, then it also means that the ruling can apply to a lot of what Viet Nam possess in the SCS (reefs inside Philippines EEZ that VN must give up). That's why I was surprised that VietNam had publicly declared that they support the Philippines' legal position. Perhaps @BoQ77 theory is right and that there is already some agreement under the table between VN-US-Philippines.

 

[BoQ77]

Russia's Defense Ministry said on Jan 4, 2015, the first time Cam Ranh airport is used for landing aircraft air refueling for IL-78 long-range bombers Tu-95MS in 2014

US General Brooks visits Vietnam to increase ground force cooperation
UPDATED : 01/20/2015 13:11 GMT + 7

WASHINGTON Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:02am EDT
(Reuters) - The United States has asked Vietnam to stop letting Russia use a former U.S. base to refuel nuclear-capable bombers engaged in shows of strength over the Asia-Pacific region,
General Vincent Brooks, commander of the U.S. Army in the Pacific, told Reuters the planes had conducted "provocative" flights, including around the U.S. Pacific Ocean territory of Guam, home to a major American air base

Russian media

Vietnam media
Mỹ lên tiếng về việc Nga muốn tiếp dầu máy bay quân sự tại cảng Cam Ranh - Quốc tế - giaoduc.net.vn

 

[Nan Yang]

Also remember that if the Philippines wins the case, then it also means that the ruling can apply to a lot of what Viet Nam possess in the SCS (reefs inside Philippines EEZ that VN must give up). That's why I was surprised that VietNam had publicly declared that they support the Philippines' legal position. Perhaps @BoQ77 theory is right and that there is already some agreement under the table between VN-US-Philippines.

Vietnam claim - The Yellow line.


It's a mess. US will never get involve.

 

[BoQ77]

Vietnam claim - The Yellow line.

It's a mess. US will never get involve.

Vietnam recognize the jurisdiction right of the court which PH submit the legal case to.
That means two would follow the laws to settle this case.

 

[BoQ77]

Do you know US is selling lethal weapons to Vietnam case by case?
And Vietnam is allowing Russian aircrafts to land in Cam Ranh by case, too !!!

What US want to tell is: Vietnam could continue to cooperate with Russian in weapons, warships.... grant permission for Russian to access Cam Ranh bay
But "we don't want any access to Cam Ranh bay to support Tu-95 patrol in 2015, as they did in 2014"

That help narrow the expansion of Russian in the region. Another region is Caribbean.

This explain to :

Asked about the Russian flights in the region, the State Department official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Washington respected Hanoi's right to enter agreements with other countries.
But the official added: "We have urged Vietnamese officials to ensure that Russia is not able to use its access to Cam Ranh Bay to conduct activities that could raise tensions in the region."

 

[Carlosa]

Let's wait and see what VietNam's decision will be regarding Russia using Cam Ranh.

This is the thing that keeps popping up in my mind:

U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius said on Friday it was understandable Hanoi would look to "historic partners" when it came to security, but the United States had "much to offer... to enhance Vietnam's security in the short, medium and long term."

There is one hell of an offer being made to Vietnam there. How far it goes, I don't know, but it could potentially go very far.

 

[BoQ77]

This is the thing that keeps popping up in my mind:

U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius said on Friday it was understandable Hanoi would look to "historic partners" when it came to security, but the United States had "much to offer... to enhance Vietnam's security in the short, medium and long term."

There is one hell of an offer being made to Vietnam there. How far it goes, I don't know, but it could potentially go very far.

Yes. Olive branch. That means "short, medium, or long term, .... depend on you"

 

[Carlosa]

Yes. Olive branch

Ha ha, one hell of an olive branch, uncle Sam has opened the gift basket.

What are you hearing from other vietnamese people or the press? What's their position on what to do?

 

[Viet]

US began another interference in Vietnam's affairs.Stupid

@Viet @Carlosa your opinion

well, this is pretty much expected that they will come on one day with this "now you have to make the choice" sooner or later. I hoped later. from the news, I see the US government has laid off the cards on the table:

- the US military complex is ready to provide Vietnam with security guarantee in short, medium and long term.
- US business promises to become the largest investor in 2 years, overtaking S Korea ($37b).
US To Be Top Investor in Vietnam in Two Years | Embassy of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam in the United States

In my opinion, it is best in vietnam interests we take the offer and re-negotiate a new relationship with Russia.

 

[William Hung]

View attachment 201809



Russian media

With that top picture of the smiling Vietnamese pilot, the Russian media is wrong. It should not be called "US bullies Vietnam.." but should be called "US enticing VietNam to cooperate with the US military."

This is the thing that keeps popping up in my mind:

U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius said on Friday it was understandable Hanoi would look to "historic partners" when it came to security, but the United States had "much to offer... to enhance Vietnam's security in the short, medium and long term."

There is one hell of an offer being made to Vietnam there. How far it goes, I don't know, but it could potentially go very far.

Where is @Viet? He must be drooling right now.

I was thinking the Viet pilot will get to train on the Orion but I don't think they operate Orions from Columbus Airforce base. Actually, there are no F-16 in Columbus AFB.

 

[Viet]

The fact that they made the statement public is very revealing. They want to push Vietnam into their camp.
Vietnam needs to be very careful about this, USA will court you one day and they will dump you the next day.
Vietnam needs to keep both of them in balance.

yes, very interesting news. I think he US believes it is high noon to act, pushing Vietnam into the US camp. we seek security with a superpower, why not ally with uncle sam? our cold war ally Russia is virtually dead, not there to help us if there is a need. Russia itself is weakened by economics sanction. more, the russians are desperate seeking money in China. if the US will dump us one day? well, first I would place more trusts on America then China.

second, I will tell it later.

where is @Martian2? he he he...he once believes the US does not care of Vietnam.

 

[Carlosa]

yes, very interesting news. I think he US believes it is high noon to act, pushing Vietnam into the US camp. we seek security with a superpower, why not ally with uncle sam? our cold war ally Russia is virtually dead, not there to help us if there is a need. Russia itself is weakened by economics sanction. more the russians seek money in China. if the US will dump us one day? well, first I would place more trusts on America then China.

Yes, I totally agree with you. Vietnam can still keep a warm relationship with Russia anyway.
But if VN moves clearly to the US camp, they it needs to have an iron clad security guarantee that includes the islands and its ok to give access to bases to US forces.

@Nan Yang @Carlosa there is a better map which show how a lot of "reefs" in both of China and VietNam's possession are within Filipino EEZ. But I don't want to go off topic because the PRC mod here will ban me for every small off topic posts (but he doesn't seem to mind that his fellow PRC members always make rude and insulting posts).



With that top picture of the smiling Vietnamese pilot, the Russian media is wrong. It should not be called "US bullies Vietnam.." but should be called "US enticing VietNam to cooperate with the US military."



Where is @Viet? He must be drooling right now.

I was thinking the Viet pilot will get to train on the Orion but I don't think they operate Orions from Columbus Airforce base. He might very well get a taste of an F-16.

Yes, the Russian media is definitely wrong, that's not the tone of the US message.

I have many detailed maps of the islands, I know which ones fall into the EEZ zone of Phili, but I think there is nothing to worry about that.

 

[BoQ77]

I was thinking the Viet pilot will get to train on the Orion but I don't think they operate Orions from Columbus Airforce base. Actually, there are no F-16 in Columbus AFB.

I heard that Vietnamese pilots was trained on Orions in Japan or Taiwan.