Two Indian soldiers killed in LoC skirmish: Indian army

[KingMamba]

@KRAIT where is the official GOI statement that was going to come in the morning???

 

[KRAIT]

@KRAIT where is the official GOI statement that was going to come in the morning???

Already made. DGMO Pakistan denied it. Same old story. Stalemate.

 

[Emmie]

The link has been posted about the Indian Army statement atleast 10 times .

[The Army on Tuesday said one of the two bodies was mutilated while other sources said the heads of both the Indian soldiers have been chopped off and that one was taken away by Pakistani intruders.

According to Army sources in Delhi, the Pakistan army regulars who were involved in the attack wore black uniforms and they had slit the throats of both the soldiers in a brutal manner and that the bodies were badly mutilated

What the heck are sources?

 

[KingMamba]

Already made. DGMO Pakistan denied it. Same old story. Stalemate.

So all that warmongering on PDF for naught?

 

[Screambowl]

What the heck are sources?

kitni baar dein? same attitude towards evidences

 

[arp2041]

What does 'Internationalize the Kashmir Issue' actually means here ? Is the world oblivious of India & Pakistan's respective stance on Kashmir & the Conflict ? Or would this entail fresh calls from the International Community to nudge India & Pakistan towards some sort of a closure to the Kashmir Conflict ?

No..none of that is going to happen ! Taking one 'crime scene' & extrapolating it to the whole of Kashmir is neither going to be in the purview of a commission or a committee tasked with finding out the truth behind these aspersions nor would India or Pakistan for that matter would like to enter into any such a commission whilst wearing blinders.

The reason Pakistan has asked (Did they..I didn't know that !) for a UN monitored probe is because of our mutual distrust ! Pakistan too, like India, has reservations about how much leeway we'd be given in that probe or whether that probe would be something more than a PR stunt ! And so bringing a 3rd party in is going to add much needed impartiality & independence to any such 'probe' !

Lost on three fronts badly - referendum, war & terrorism, to change the status-quo of Kashmir, Pakistan is remained with just one option - Diplomacy or 'Internationalize the Kashmir Issue'. Diplomacy is a very powerful tool if used properly, this is what the Palestinians achieved in 2012 when there UN status was upgraded & international community accepted TACITLY that a country called Palestine do exist. This when Israel's military might is unmatched in entire middle-east.

Pakistan has time & again, used any sort of platform available to make International community aware that here we have a so-called Disputed territory called Kashmir, be it OIC, or UN GA or even Kargil was not a military operation but an operation to bring the world to notice about Kashmir dispute & to force India to find a solution for it. Yes, India is powerful enough a country to dodge any pressure but if whole world will have a feeling that it could result into a nuclear war b/w the two nations & if all countries started demanding solution, India cannot remain blind either.

This is what Pakistan is trying to achieve through Diplomacy (though unsuccessful till now), it is playing with the fears of the world that a nuclear war is still a possibility & u can't see THIS incident separated from the larger designs of Pakistan on Kashmir (remember LOC is not International border), why else do u think Pakistan within hours of the incident asked for a UN monitored probe where some people from powerful countries like US, UK, France, etc. will come & make a local Incident an International issue?? I know that a UN monitored probe will not at all change the status-quo, but Diplomacy is about Baby Steps & in it nothing can change immediately. The issue is why should we let enter some foreign nationals on OUR TERRITORY that will inspect everything - LOC, Dead Bodies, surrounding areas, etc. & make a mockery of the death of our soldiers?? Does US let Indian citizens to probe any incident on it's soil??

I know nor Indians trust Pakistanis on this nor Pakistanis on Indians so the Joint probe option is also ruled out.

+ as this incident goes there can be only three possibilities:

1. Either it were the regular PA soldiers.
2. Either the militants.
3. OR as the conspiracy theorists like to point out, IA itself.

Now, i cannot say anything about Possibility 1 or 3 as i have no knowledge about it, but if the possibility is #2 than i should tell u that in is not at all possible without the active support of the PA, since LOC was crossed & soldiers were killed & mutilated, this can't be done by irregulars alone, right??

The only option which i think is possible here is that we can have INDEPENDENT Post-mortem report of the bodies & Pakistan should accept whatever it's finding will be.

 

[KRAIT]

So all that warmongering on PDF for naught?

Watching families' of fallen soldiers report.

What war-mongering are you saying. We just want Indian Govt. to cut it all ties with Pakistan.

Friendship or peace not possible.

kitni baar dein? same attitude towards evidences

Don't make any attempt. They denied its involvement in 26/11 and you think they will accept any evidences.

 

[KingMamba]

Watching families' of fallen soldiers report.

What war-mongering are you saying. We just want Indian Govt. to cut it all ties with Pakistan.

Friendship or peace not possible.

I thought I would wake up today and Indo-Pak would be at war by the way some of you Indians were acting. Still a few of your fellow countrymen are asking for war even today, (guru dutt) being one.

 

[KRAIT]

I thought I would wake up today and Indo-Pak would be at war by the way some of you Indians were acting. Still a few of your fellow countrymen are asking for war even today, (guru dutt) being one.

I never wanted conventional war between the nations. I am against it. Others are idiot.

I would rather like India to do practical course. I believe in RAW, not in GOI.

 

[Icarus]

I doubt the validity of this entire issue, why not let the UN Observer Group ratify the issue as said by Pakistan? Our open declaration to let the UN investigate the incident shows that Pakistan is confident that there's nothing that India can pin against Pakistan but India's flat refusal to let the UN Observers investigate shows that they have skeletons in their closet.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

I don't think war is the answer. I believe the armed forces of my country:

Severed head of Indian soldier yet to be found: Army - The Times of India

"The bodies of two soldiers were brutalised — one head was severed and another body was beheaded... It (the head of one of jawan) has not being recovered — probably they have taken it along with them", deputy commander of the 25 Division Brigadier J K Tiwari told reporters in Rajouri.

But I understand that Pakistanis will believe their military.

So we have a stalemate.

 

[Windjammer]

He was killed in the line of battle, Indian soldiers were mutilated ...There is a huge difference...

Intruding into some one's territory and killing a soldier manning a post under peace time....can't be exactly termed 'in the line of battle'.....as for mutilation...it's your word against ours.....Indians are known for their desperation to get world sympathy. !!

 

[KRAIT]

I doubt the validity of this entire issue, why not let the UN Observer Group ratify the issue as said by Pakistan? Our open declaration to let the UN investigate the incident shows that Pakistan is confident that there's nothing that India can pin against Pakistan but India's flat refusal to let the UN Observers investigate shows that they have skeletons in their closet.

Like Pakistan will accept UN probe's findings. You and I know, no one in your or our country believe what UN says.

Indian is thinking to move to ICJ but I am not confident about our GOI. IA don't get govt. support and from people.

 

[Icarus]

By the time you move to ICJ, the issue will already be dead. What's wrong with involving a neutral party? The people in Pakistan may not care what the UN says (as per your argument) but the GoP can't deny their findings can they? Unless a neutral party is made party to the investigation, we will just keep blaming and denying. That's all.

 

[Emmie]

Sir, After careful consideration, how do we prove pakistani soldiers did it. It's not like the perps would leave behind evidences and even if they did we wouldn't have the jurisdiction to investigate. Army has reported an ambush inside Indian territory of LOC which seems to have been well planned. Now if IA does send the images and post mortem reports to brigade HQ of PA, they can simply report that no such operations were sanctioned and might have been mujhahideens who commited the act giving complete Plausible deniability to the international committee.

you are a senior member here, I would like to get to know your views on how can IA verify that PA did it?

Investigation into the incident by a third party, as Pakistan has offered. No one will have any excuse.