Featured Twin IED blasts in SWTD, six including 1 officer, 2JCOs, 2NCOs Martyred

[Zapper]

On the Pakistani side, you might never see large scale adoption of Western style COIN equipment & tactics because COIN is not something the Army plans to do on a permanent basis at the scale it has been doing it and it can easily absorb isolated attacks here and there.

So why invest billions out of a limited military budget in developing COIN/COT capacity for a conflict that civilian law enforcement and paramilitary organizations (Frontier Corps) are expected to step up and lead going forward?

You can never wipe em out going with that approach. For instance, naxals in India or North East groups have previously been dealt by local police with no affect. State govts with naxal infestation like Andhra, Jharkhand, Orissa formed specialized teams with men selected from their state police depts and deployment of CRPF was a game changer and pretty much wiped out naxals in the region with several of em surrendering. It's kinda the same in NE except that CRPF in coordination with IA were able to clean up resulting in surrender of several groups recently. During this process, we did loose quite a few personnel primarily due to IED attacks

The clean up process would've been done much faster had we resorted to using heavy weapons or drone/helo support similar to your Zarb-e-Azb. That approach was never taken to prevent collateral damage and not to affect local communities. The only weapon ever used against em were 5.56 INSAS or 7.62 AKs'. While both IA or PA can absorb manpower loss, it would be a long drawn operation. Again, we don't necessarily need to employ western strategies and tactics for COIN ops but acquiring MRAPs should suffice. IA started acquiring Tata, Mahindra and DRDO based MRAPs and MPVs recently which were seen in Kashmir. PA could go for license produced Turkish MRAPs

 

[Sifar zero]

Imran and Bajwa are the main culprits here.

 

[Areesh]

What policies and tactics would you like to see changed and why do you think a different COAS would have changed them?

Two things happened under General Bajwa while he got an undeserving extension

1 come back of ttp in waziristan (and hence increase in casualties of Pak army in waziristan)

2 birth and growth of ptm


Now both of these things are very much related and interlinked to each other

Since you on this thread again trying to defend the undefendable share with us what exactly General Bajwa has done to counter ahd eliminate these two threats? Surely he got an extension he should obviously must have done something good

Share with us

If so then other political opposition parties, namely PMLN+PPP should have opposed IK's wrong decision. But they endorsed it, meaning there was nation wide consensus on the PM's choice.

There was no consensus

Handsome pm decided on his own to give this extension

 

[kashif_Qaimi]

With Tangos sneaking in day by day via cutting fence, this is a whole news scenario for Pak Army and we are going to face (GOD forbid) same scenario of 2007 again. Civillians are back in the tribal areas and Terrorist hiding among them. It is very difficult to identify between friend and foe unless other person is carrying an AK-47 in hand. This is a wakeup time for people sitting in Isb and Rwp as well.

 

[Waterboy]

Two things happened under General Bajwa while he got an undeserving extension

1 come back of ttp in waziristan (and hence increase in casualties of Pak army in waziristan)

2 birth and growth of ptm


Now both of these things are very much related and interlinked to each other

Since you on this thread again trying to defend the undefendable share with us what exactly General Bajwa has done to counter ahd eliminate these two threats? Surely he got an extension he should obviously must have done something good

Share with us


There was no consensus

Handsome pm decided on his own to give this extension

Add a third one as well. He's just busy meddling in politics. The entire idea of his extension was based on bringing PTI back in to power in next election.
Extensions should never be given. All the other respectable corp commander were deemed unfit by Gen Bajwa.

 

[Village life]

General Gorbachev Bajwa and Imran are responsible for all the mess going on in the country, meanwhile FIRs lodged again PTM traitors taken backed on behalf of state ,

 

[Caprxl]

Ina Lillahi Wa Ina Alaihi Rajioun

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You can never wipe em out going with that approach. For instance, naxals in India or North East groups have previously been dealt by local police with no affect. State govts with naxal infestation like Andhra, Jharkhand, Orissa formed specialized teams with men selected from their state police depts and deployment of CRPF was a game changer and pretty much wiped out naxals in the region with several of em surrendering. It's kinda the same in NE except that CRPF in coordination with IA were able to clean up resulting in surrender of several groups recently. During this process, we did loose quite a few personnel primarily due to IED attacks

The clean up process would've been done much faster had we resorted to using heavy weapons or drone/helo support similar to your Zarb-e-Azb. That approach was never taken to prevent collateral damage and not to affect local communities. The only weapon ever used against em were 5.56 INSAS or 7.62 AKs'. While both IA or PA can absorb manpower loss, it would be a long drawn operation. Again, we don't necessarily need to employ western strategies and tactics for COIN ops but acquiring MRAPs should suffice. IA started acquiring Tata, Mahindra and DRDO based MRAPs and MPVs recently which were seen in Kashmir. PA could go for license produced Turkish MRAPs

The Army isn't leaving ex-FATA, and it will continue to provide support. I should have also mentioned the role of the Frontier Corps in all of this. The Frontier Corps is led by officers seconded from the PA and it has come a long way from the poorly trained and equipped para-military it used to be back in 2007. FC recruitment is done locally, which gives them an advantage in terms of familiarity with the people and terrain. They will likely be taking the lead as the Army scales back its operations, followed by local police (still a work in progress as part of the FATA merger).

MRAP acquisition might be (should be) done under the Frontier Corps instead of the Army (Frontier Corps comes under the Interior Ministry so won't impact the defence budget).

@PanzerKiel @jaibi

Not sure how much you can share, but we haven't heard much lately about the progress of the FC in taking over from the Army in ex-FATA.

 

[I S I]

no no MRAPS are too costly for soldiers but C class Mercedes Benz is cheap as fk for Generals like heera mandi ki whores.

 

[WebMaster]

We need MRAPs immediately, we need modern way to handle the issue and with more seriousness.
Repeated deaths suggest we are slow to adapt.

or simply cant adapt.

 

[PanzerKiel]

@PanzerKiel What do you suggest should be done, or are these the consequences you have to live with of a long-term strategy that will eventually see peace in the region?

The second part of your question is what I believe in.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Two things happened under General Bajwa while he got an undeserving extension

1 come back of ttp in waziristan (and hence increase in casualties of Pak army in waziristan)

2 birth and growth of ptm

I've already offered my explanation on both points you raised in my previous posts:

1. An uptick in TTP attacks was expected given the return of IDP's and intra-provincial & inter-State movement since that would allow terrorists to find shelter and support from collaborators in the local population.

2. PTM needs to be handled legally, and you and I have gone back and forth on this thread without being able to clearly identify any laws that can be used to charge them for their incendiary comments.

Related to point 1, please keep in mind that the Army is the equivalent of a sledge-hammer - they did their job and they did it well in the initial clearing phases with the tactics they employed, but you can't go back to those tactics now without displacing local residents and causing large scale damage again, which makes the problem worse in the long term.

This is now, in my opinion, primarily a Frontier Corps and Provincial law enforcement responsibility and issue, with the Army providing limited support and psychological deterrence through permanent bases in the region.

 

[Zulfiqar]

Notice the change in enemy tactics. IED/ambushes vs previously suicide bombings.

Further, if a single vehicle/2X vehicles were targeted then clearly the unit there needs to change own tactics so that unit level leadership is not concentrated in one part of convoy.

There has been an uptick in casualties. Enemy has changed tactics, whereas we have yet to counter it.

Majority of the casualties are concentrated in that one agency. We are doing something wrong there.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Are you saying that no development work is occurring or that the pace of development needs to be increased?

Actually saying the opposite, infrastructure work is going on in a steady pace, bro i saw roads in KPK which are better than Karachi , but my point is these Tribal don't want to live in good environment or have better life, they just want lawlessness and killing cause this is what their culture is all about .

What else would you like to see done?

I want them to be clear which side they are on, Afghanistan or Pakistan .. if they are on Afghan side, then feel free to Leave Wazirstan move across the border and fight for Shriah law there, or whatever they want .

 

[PanzerKiel]

The Army isn't leaving ex-FATA, and it will continue to provide support. I should have also mentioned the role of the Frontier Corps in all of this. The Frontier Corps is led by officers seconded from the PA and it has come a long way from the poorly trained and equipped para-military it used to be back in 2007. FC recruitment is done locally, which gives them an advantage in terms of familiarity with the people and terrain. They will likely be taking the lead as the Army scales back its operations, followed by local police (still a work in progress as part of the FATA merger).

MRAP acquisition might be (should be) done under the Frontier Corps instead of the Army (Frontier Corps comes under the Interior Ministry so won't impact the defence budget).

@PanzerKiel @jaibi

Not sure how much you can share, but we haven't heard much lately about the progress of the FC in taking over from the Army in ex-FATA.

FC is being heavily reorganised, reinforced and reequipped at the moment, would take some time for results.