Turks, do most Muslims practice Islam?

[drink_milk]

Zulkarneyn

Are you sure you did read that part?...: ''to the ones who think they are the owner of islam, who think they can judge who is religous or not, who mark people with some words and try to seem them as the enemy of islam. you are doing the worst damage ever possible to islam and muslims in the eyes of pepole who are not muslims but someday would like to be. therefore, there is a ''good place'' in the hell waiting for you.''

if you did, then ok, the rest for others anyway.

 

[LegionnairE]

Very surprising. Religion again.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Zulkarneyn

Are you sure you did read that part?...: ''to the ones who think they are the owner of islam, who think they can judge who is religous or not, who mark people with some words and try to seem them as the enemy of islam. you are doing the worst damage ever possible to islam and muslims in the eyes of pepole who are not muslims but someday would like to be. therefore, there is a ''good place'' in the hell waiting for you.''

if you did, then ok, the rest for others anyway.

I don't know what you are trying to indicate. Have i said you are a bad Muslim? Have i said you are going to hell or heaven? No.
But when the time comes i will defend Islam against people who mock my God and my Prophet. If defending your religion is imposing on others then you don't know what imposing and defending means.

 

[drink_milk]

I don't know what you are trying to indicate. Have i said you are a bad Muslim? Have i said you are going to hell or heaven? No.
But when the time comes i will defend Islam against people who mock my God and my Prophet. If defending your religion is imposing on others then you don't know what imposing and defending means.

that part is short anaylze of people like you, and i am partially suprised that you did not get it.but this is a proof about my thoughts about you.

ps:you could report this post, no offense taken on my side.

----*----

you must be carefull with that phrase ''low personality'', otherwise it will be your nick name among people here like ''Mrs. low-personality'', hence you use that word so much, which actually is another sign about you.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

that part is short anaylze of people like you, and i am partially suprised that you did not get it.but this is a proof about my thoughts about you.

ps:you could report this post, no offense taken on my side.

Why would i waste my time reporting that post? It just shows your personality which i find unfortunate. Only Allah knows who will end where. Who am i to call you a sinner, i barely know anyone in this forum.

If you are Muslim and Turk, you are my brother, even if we disagree about certain things. That is how i am brought up

 

[Killuminati]

Why would i waste my time reporting that post? It just shows your personality which i find unfortunate. Only Allah knows who will end where. Who am i to call you a sinner, i barely know anyone in this forum.

If you are Muslim and Turk, you are my brother, even if we disagree about certain things. That is how i am brought up

But if it comes to your Padisah you do everything to report.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

But if it comes to your Padisah you do everything to report.

Who is my Padisah? You guys are pathetic and i feel sorry for your lowliness. I don't waste time on reporting post by guys like you, i don't even read them. Because there is not much worth reading tbh.

Everything aside. I really see the difference in you guys and European people. Turkey needs another 100 years to mature itself. Many of you guys are extremely immature and dishonest which i find very sad.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Zukkarneyn.

I don't have time now but I will read all the relevant stuff you mentioned and post my thoughts later but I tell you one thing. It appears in Turkey you might have 'uber secularists' gone out of control. If I am correct in reading of the situation in Turkey than it would not be surprising considering your history. You may at times feel your screaming to a mass of deaf people.

I feel the same. I also feel like giving up. There is a differance though, I am screaming to a tidal wave of 'uber Islamists'. Let me assure you the 'uber Islamists' are nothing but crude primitive neanderthals. Just like you say in Turkey they might look at anything 'Islamic' as corrupt in my country the 'uber nationalists' are up in arms to my suggestion. They will accuse me of being a western stooge, ammoral, corrupt etc.

The reason why I loook to Turkey is I hopeyou guy's might end up striking a balance that charts a moderate path between 'uber secularists' and 'uber Islamists'. I can't comment on what it is like to deal with 'uber secularists' but I can tell you dealing with 'uber Islamists' is dangerous to your health, wealth and life. They are savages.

I just give you one example. Governor of Punjab Salman Taseer was murdered by his own Police guard because he spoke on behalf of a poor low class Christian women. The Christian's in Pakistan are mostly ex-Hindu untouchables who converted to Christianity because it offered them equality. However they still are confined to live in miserable conditions because of their background.

Since than the extremist Muslims have kidnapped even Governor's son and thus far he has not been found. Most distressing of all many thousands supported the killer and even tried to stop Salman Taseer's burial in a Muslim cemetery. Can you believe this. I have to admit I was so disgusted that I questioned if should even be a Muslim.

In Pakistan we have evil stalking our land under the guise of Islam. This is the other side of the coin. I know you don't think like this but what I am saying is the extreme of uber secularism, that is uber Islam is nothing but evil. The reason why I look to Turkey is that I hope they can find a balance and chart a course that rest of us can follow because I assure you if Islam is what is being practiced in Pakistan then I would prefer to be a athiest.

Salmaan Taseer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Taseer's family speaks out on his assassination - YouTube

Legionair

Yes, I realize this is 'Turkey Defence Forum' but I see many Turks have posted here so I hope you don't mind. After all it is only one thread - There is plenty for space here for other threads.

Peace.

 

[Armstrong]

@ Atanz : Mate, what would your views be on a 'Pluralistic and Democratic Pakistan' which doesn't necessarily enforces a separation of 'religion and politics' but still provides for strong constitutional guarantees to ensure that our religious minorities don't end up becoming, as they, regrettably, have, social and political minorities ? Which is to say what would you say about a democratic Pakistan where everyone gets the space to express themselves and that its acceptance or refusal is gauged by public opinion; a Pakistan where a party who talks about 'Islamic Finance' or 'some aspect of the Shariah' be allowed to run for election and consequently table resolutions in the Parliament which direct a committee (or say the State Bank) to come up with a system of economics which takes 'Ri'ibah' or 'a certain kind of interest' out of the equation. But that this Pakistan be the same Democracy that is proud to elect people like Justice (R) Rana Bhagwandas as their President ? Pluralism, religious impartiality and Justice for all but no necessarily 'Secularism' per se; all three of which are prerequisites for a modern day 'Secular Democracy' but are also independent stances on their own worthy of being incorporated without being made conditional on something else !

What do you say, mate ?

 

[LegionnairE]

I don't know what you are trying to indicate. Have i said you are a bad Muslim? Have i said you are going to hell or heaven? No.
But when the time comes i will defend Islam against people who mock my God and my Prophet. If defending your religion is imposing on others then you don't know what imposing and defending means.

except that he is mocking islamists not islam, genius

 

[LegionnairE]

I don't know what you are trying to indicate. Have i said you are a bad Muslim? Have i said you are going to hell or heaven? No.
But when the time comes i will defend Islam against people who mock my God and my Prophet. If defending your religion is imposing on others then you don't know what imposing and defending means.

except that he is mocking islamists not islam, genius

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@ Atanz : Mate, what would your views be on a 'Pluralistic and Democratic Pakistan' which doesn't necessarily enforces a separation of 'religion and politics' but still provides for strong constitutional guarantees to ensure that our religious minorities don't end up becoming, as they, regrettably, have, social and political minorities ? Which is to say what would you say about a democratic Pakistan where everyone gets the space to express themselves and that its acceptance or refusal is gauged by public opinion; a Pakistan where a party who talks about 'Islamic Finance' or 'some aspect of the Shariah' be allowed to run for election and consequently table resolutions in the Parliament which direct a committee (or say the State Bank) to come up with a system of economics which takes 'Ri'ibah' or 'a certain kind of interest' out of the equation. But that this Pakistan be the same Democracy that is proud to elect people like Justice (R) Rana Bhagwandas as their President ? Pluralism, religious impartiality and Justice for all but no necessarily 'Secularism' per se; all three of which are prerequisites for a modern day 'Secular Democracy' but are also independent stances on their own worthy of being incorporated without being made conditional on something else !

What do you say, mate ?

Well, Armstrong your suggestion would be darn sight better than what we have but I still think we need a strong dose of 'Kemalist secularism'. After reading Zulkarnane's posts it is very possible that there has been 'overkill' of Kemalism in Turkey but in Pakistan we face the opposite problem.

Despite what you say about Kemalism in Turkey Islam is not dead. AKP did win the elections. To my eyes Erdogan is a better Muslim than Mullana Fazlur Rehman. Are they blowing up mosques in Istanbul? So ask yourself who are better Muslim? If your measure is beards well yes Pakistan wins but come on it has got to be more than that.

In Pakistan it is not just minorities that are now targeted. The fundamental problem in allowing religion into the public space is that you empower the Mullah. After all he is the expert on Islam so don't be surprised if the Mullah's pushes into the affairs of the state.

Once you allow Mullah into the public space you have major problem on your hand. A state can only be run with one law or one set of rules. So whose 'Islam' are you going to enforce? Even within the majority Sunni groups they have splits and then sub-splits. There is only one Quran but whose interpretation are you going to enforce - You know the Mullah's can't even agree on the sighting of the moon for Eid.

This creates recipe for disaster because all those groups jostle and push for power. Then they all start giving Fatwa's. Then they start killing each other. That is the madness we have unleashed in Pakistan. Mate I suggest you read the Munir Commission report 1953 in which one of the question posed to various noted Mullah's was 'What is definition of a Muslim' - They could not even agree on one single definition. Please read this report because it warned in 1953 about the danger to Pakistan in the future if the Mullah's were let loose. The warning given has come true in Pakistan today when you see suicide bombers blowing up people in mosques.

Do try to read the entire report and your gonna think Justice Munir was some sort of Nostradamus in 1953 who could predict the dystopian hell we face in Pakistan today.

http://www.thepersecution.org/dl/report_1953.pdf

Munir Commission Report-24: The Definition of a Muslim, Books and Documents, Justice M. Munir commission investigated the large-scale riots against the Ahmadya sect in Pakistan in 1953. His report is an eye-opener. It shows that our ulema are not eve

 

[RazPaK]

Atanz, I am a Muslim pakistani and a very nice person, but once someone starts to insult my religion, I would not even spare my brother. We Muslims are always peaceful, until we are provoked continuously.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

^^

If you don't mind me asking but when has 'your religion' been 'insulted'?
And you state 'we' as in the muslim world ............ would that be about 1,000 million Muslim's. Since when you become their 'appointed representative'?
And if the all Muslim are peaceful I suggest you advise Zardari to send all the Police home to save Pakistani taxpayer some money. Pakistan ought to be one of the most peaceful countries in the world.
I see Muslim's here in UK commit rape, murder, incest, fraud, cheat, steal, mug like other members of the human species. But do please let me know where this body of 'peaceful Muslim's is to be found.

Your attitude underscores my point about dystopian Pakistan. Take the law into your hands.That murdering swine Qadri also thought Salman Taseer had 'insulted' Islam and just like your threat he was prepared to kill.

And do you know what blowing your own trumpet means ... ' I am a nice person'.

Jeeeeeeeez!!!

***

Peaceful does not equate well with 'taking the law into your own hands' at any percieved insult. What is insult is also very subjective.

 

[TurAr]

Atanz, I am a Muslim pakistani and a very nice person, but once someone starts to insult my religion, I would not even spare my brother. We Muslims are always peaceful, until we are provoked continuously.

You're not just a Muslim but an extremist:

Why so many Anti-Islam Turks these days?


These guys should be beaten like dogs.

Atanz, look how peaceful he is ^