Turkish LHD Program | News & Discusions

[telkon]

So the ship will actually cost $500 million, the associated helos will cost another 500 and then the rest of equipment for naval infantry will be another 700.... the ship itself is not costing much considering recent mistral deal which was 1.7 billion for just two ships....and it was smaller at 21300 tonnes....

mistrals cost around 600 million $ each. and as in every military contract, there are other things like tech transfer, spare parts, training etc. which would account for 400 million $ left. btw, mistral contract was worth 1.6 billion $.

 

[Penguin]

is Spanish ship Juan Carlos I (L61) capable to handle f-35B ?

The Spanish Navy aircraft carrier Juan Carlos I (L61) is adapted to carry JSF and AV-8B Harrier. JSF Program Executive Officer, Air Force Major General Charles Davis, said in 2008 that discussions had been held with Spain, which could eventually lead to the F-35B replacing the Spanish Navy’s EAV-8B Harrier fleet. However , In 2014 Spain decided to extend the lifespan of the Harriers to beyond 2025 as funding was not available to replace the type.
Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II procurement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hakan]

lpd project cost is 1.7 billion $, including:

1 LPD and 4 Landing Craft Mechanics (LCM), 27 Amphibious Assault Vehicles (AAV), 2 Landing Craft Personnel Vehicles (LCVP), 1 Commander Boat and 1 RHIB (Rubber Hull Inflated Boat).

I think there was a project for indigenous aav's but I dont remember exactly.

1.7 billion is a ton of money.

 

[SipahSalar]

The thing is that Turkey isnt getting F35B, it is getting the Air Force version. Smart choice if you ask me. The F35B is the slow and fat one of the three sisters.

 

[Penguin]

The thing is that Turkey isnt getting F35B, it is getting the Air Force version. Smart choice if you ask me. The F35B is the slow and fat one of the three sisters.

Right ....
The difference is in the internal fual and hence combat radius, of which A and C variants have more. It is the B version, with its VSTOL capability, that determines airframe shape (big engine, lift fan) for all. The carrier based C version is the 'fatty' of the three.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Post of @cabatli_53 under Naval Programs thread...

Turkish Naval Programs | Page 82

Turkish LPD (Juan Carlos) will be constructed with ski jump...

F-35B order is more certain thanks to that desicion.

 

[-SINAN-]

Post of @cabatli_53 under Naval Programs thread...

Turkish Naval Programs | Page 82

Turkish LPD (Juan Carlos) will be constructed with ski jump...

F-35B order is more certain thanks to that desicion.

Arda Mevlütoğlu and Cabatlı says there will be a Ski-Jump on the LHD....of course we trust them.

But at the time, Mr. José Manuel Revuelta, The Chairman of Navantia said;

"The design included in our proposal is based on the Juan Carlos I but includes many changes in order to meet the requirements from SSM. The biggest difference is the Combat Management System (CMS), for the Turkish LPD, the CMS is a derivative of the Genesis supplied by the local consortium Havelsan-Aselsan. There are other changes, like the removal of the ski-jump, the accommodation capacity has been modified, the forward aircraft elevator has been substituted by a hatch, the deck crane has increased its capacity, and many others. Sedef and Navantia will work very hard to include as many Turkish equipment and materials on board of the LPD. The ship’s profile will be very similar except for the ski-jump and the topside. "

Defence Turkey

I would very much like to see an official statement, either from SSM or Navantia to be %100 sure.

 

[telkon]

Arda Mevlütoğlu and Cabatlı says there will be a Ski-Jump on the LHD....of course we trust them.

But at the time, Mr. José Manuel Revuelta, The Chairman of Navantia said;

"The design included in our proposal is based on the Juan Carlos I but includes many changes in order to meet the requirements from SSM. The biggest difference is the Combat Management System (CMS), for the Turkish LPD, the CMS is a derivative of the Genesis supplied by the local consortium Havelsan-Aselsan. There are other changes, like the removal of the ski-jump, the accommodation capacity has been modified, the forward aircraft elevator has been substituted by a hatch, the deck crane has increased its capacity, and many others. Sedef and Navantia will work very hard to include as many Turkish equipment and materials on board of the LPD. The ship’s profile will be very similar except for the ski-jump and the topside. "

Defence Turkey

I would very much like to see an official statement, either from SSM or Navantia to be %100 sure.

look at the date of that interview (21 march 2014). i think ski jump is re-included very recently into the project.

 

[-SINAN-]

look at the date of that interview (21 march 2014). i think ski jump is re-included very recently into the project.

I'm aware...i just want to see a solid confirmation.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Bro. i moved this topic to this thread... Also i love when this Turkish LHD Program thread bumps up...

Dillemma begins here;
We are waiting some years , so that design of our LHD will be completed and will be delivered to Sedef shipyard. While before, i have talked on this issue, to the engineers which designed RMK ,or take actions in DESAN , or the ones contacted to Navantia in Sedef , kept mentioning there will be no ski jump, but jet resistant deck coating.

Now it seems like, there will be ski jump ,so why dont we just buy design of Juan Carlos LPD? Why do we waste money and extra time just for sake of Navantia will complete R&D and design? Why sedef keeps getting payments? Even one equipment integration engineer i contacted earlier, said one thing that if we directly ordered Juan Carlos, integrating our equipments would take totally 1 year into design ,but now navantia designs our LPD from the beginning ,just for some meters shorter and smaller design, and resulting in 40% more cost .

Result is, we saved navantia from bankrupt, thats all. And we wasted time and money ,if there is really a ski jump .

Bro. you are Boss about these issues... (BTW where have you been so long ? )

So i have some questions and my humble opinion about the issue...

Q1 - Would they sell us their new brand design ?
Q2 - How much it would cost to us to buy it's design ?
Q3 - If you say so your answer is yes but do we have enough background to build this ship by getting design ?

And my humble opinon...

I think this tender is so so important for us...

Because this ship will not only be our most powerful member of armada with it's other dudes but more importantly it will be many many basic points & first steps of our future navy our future aircraft carriers... Yes aircraft carrierS..

We will learn how to build a LHD/LPD even an aircraft carrier...
We will learn how to operate this kind of a ship with fighter jets... So on...

And most probably(I can say NO WAY) our next ships which will operate fighter jets will be full indigenous... And i think buying design would cost too much(if they would sell)... So if next ship will be full indigenous then why to spend that much money for 1 ship ?.. Because after this ship there will be a couple of time to build 2nd ship like this or an aircraft carrier...

 

[ANMDT]

Bro. i moved this topic to this thread... Also i love when this Turkish LHD Program thread bumps up...



Bro. you are Boss about these issues... (BTW where have you been so long ? )

So i have some questions and my humble opinion about the issue...

Q1 - Would they sell us their new brand design ?
Q2 - How much it would cost to us to buy it's design ?
Q3 - If you say so your answer is yes but do we have enough background to build this ship by getting design ?

And my humble opinon...

I think this tender is so so important for us...

Because this ship will not only be our most powerful member of armada with it's other dudes but more importantly it will be many many basic points & first steps of our future navy our future aircraft carriers... Yes aircraft carrierS..

We will learn how to build a LHD/LPD even an aircraft carrier...
We will learn how to operate this kind of a ship with fighter jets... So on...

And most probably(I can say NO WAY) our next ships which will operate fighter jets will be full indigenous... And i think buying design would cost too much(if they would sell)... So if next ship will be full indigenous then why to spend that much money for 1 ship ?.. Because after this ship there will be a couple of time to build 2nd ship like this or an aircraft carrier...

Just busy with study , dissertation and some things , i follow here but recently i got free time to write.


1- I dont know whether they will sell us something, but rather than purchasing something , it will be much better to collaborate on some design so our engineers will learn. For example they have a submarine project now, would be quite helpful for us ,maybe this is the reason we saved them from bankrupt.

2-
Sure , it will be much cheaper because at the moment Navantia spending sources to make a new design for us . I forget about the price,but it is ever mentioned how much money will be delievered to Sedef shipyard just for R&D ,(300 million dollar, for delivery of design packages ).

3-
Once we had design packages of ship, its not hard for us to build that ship . Just need a little collaboration ,from Ro-Ro builders and Istanbul shipyard . ( Most of shipyards work with this strategy, they receive design package,and build it ).

For PS,
my opinion since the beginning,we had enough knowledge to design that ship by our own people ,with some assistance from abroad . I always support this idea ,and it is so stupid to buy design from abroad,or even ask them to do R&D .( except of situation their is background agreement)

for rest of questions ;

without designing this 1st ship by ourselves ,or without a joint project i dont think we can move for 2nd and larger project by ourselves .

Also i dont think our 2nd design for LPD will be full indigeneous . Because after this design received , it will be ours anymore . Just can build in any amount we want.
1st ships always too expensive , because of R&D prrojects. Milgem was quite costful ,just we didnt hear its budget . While YTKB was quite low budget for R&D , also assault boat will be so .
just from LPD ,it wont be really easy to skip to AC level fighter jet hosting ship ,at least by ourselves. If there is a partner (i dont think it will be easy) , it will be just possible.

If we want an AC ,or light AC , we should have decided to design this LPD with indigeneous sources ,with concultancy.

additionally,
we already can build it, we need to learn to design this kind of ship because it is quite different than normal combatants.
With sedef shipyard , we will not learn how to design, we will just receive design . They dont have any engineers which knows about design.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Just busy with study , dissertation and some things , i follow here but recently i got free time to write.


1- I dont know whether they will sell us something, but rather than purchasing something , it will be much better to collaborate on some design so our engineers will learn. For example they have a submarine project now, would be quite helpful for us ,maybe this is the reason we saved them from bankrupt.

2-
Sure , it will be much cheaper because at the moment Navantia spending sources to make a new design for us . I forget about the price,but it is ever mentioned how much money will be delievered to Sedef shipyard just for R&D ,(300 million dollar, for delivery of design packages ).

3-
Once we had design packages of ship, its not hard for us to build that ship . Just need a little collaboration ,from Ro-Ro builders and Istanbul shipyard . ( Most of shipyards work with this strategy, they receive design package,and build it ).

For PS,
my opinion since the beginning,we had enough knowledge to design that ship by our own people ,with some assistance from abroad . I always support this idea ,and it is so stupid to buy design from abroad,or even ask them to do R&D .( except of situation their is background agreement)

for rest of questions ;

without designing this 1st ship by ourselves ,or without a joint project i dont think we can move for 2nd and larger project by ourselves .

Also i dont think our 2nd design for LPD will be full indigeneous . Because after this design received , it will be ours anymore . Just can build in any amount we want.
1st ships always too expensive , because of R&D prrojects. Milgem was quite costful ,just we didnt hear its budget . While YTKB was quite low budget for R&D , also assault boat will be so .
just from LPD ,it wont be really easy to skip to AC level fighter jet hosting ship ,at least by ourselves. If there is a partner (i dont think it will be easy) , it will be just possible.

If we want an AC ,or light AC , we should have decided to design this LPD with indigeneous sources ,with concultancy.

additionally,
we already can build it, we need to learn to design this kind of ship because it is quite different than normal combatants.
With sedef shipyard , we will not learn how to design, we will just receive design . They dont have any engineers which knows about design.

Thx dude...

Actually i don't think our guys will leave SEDEF alone... I think from navy officials to defence industry companies they will be all there... From the beginning to the end...

Also you say currently we can design a LPD... So it means we will be able to design a LPD much easier after this ship... Anyway...

You know boss...

 

[ANMDT]

Thx dude...

Actually i don't think our guys will leave SEDEF alone... I think from navy officials to defence industry companies they will be all there... From the beginning to the end...

Also you say currently we can design a LPD... So it means we will be able to design a LPD much easier after this ship... Anyway...

You know boss...

its not about being alone,but if that company had a good design department, it would be like a transfer tech with design abilities. Now it is just like purchasing LPD , so for next LPD nothing will change,we will need consultancy ,or will keep looking at blue prints of current LPD to understand some ( means R&D )

why there is need for one more LPD design , if there is a need for more it should be light AC ,currently it is already a LHD , with jet operating capability means top level of Docked platform class ships. next one gona be harder again,that we cant use LPD design to evaulate that .

Tender is important, but the problem is, company which handles the tender is a private company which only cares about profit,not about sake of country . They dont care about " what if next one is Light AC ,what should we do " , they say " how much profit can we gain from current one ". For missile projects, or milgem it was either navy shipyard,or a state company and institute handled it,so always outputs were focused on developing a next level

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Can we call this ship as light aircraft carrier ? Actually it's more then a light aircraft carrier... So i think it should be called as LAAC... Light Amphibious Aircraft Carrier... 'Aircraft' includes both helicopters and fighter jets for sure... So this way we can get rid of questions like "Is this an aircraft carrier or not ?" ... I reall got bored of answering this questions especially @ some facebook pages...

However it's wiki, in this list Juan Carlos I is called as light aircraft carrier too...

Light aircraft carrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We see that Juan Carlos I is bigger & can operate more aircrafts/fighter jets then some light aircraft carriers...

Most importantly what makes an aircraft carrier is to operate fighter jets... So our ship will be able to operate fighter jets...

Also IMO having this ship is far better then having a light aircraft carrier... Because as you know this ship's operational capabilities are more then a light aircraft carrier... Additional to light aircraft carrier capabilities our ship also has amphibious capabilities...

Also i'll say an extraordinary thing... We should never build literally 'an aircraft carrier' in the future but bigger ships with this Juan Carlos multipurpose concept...

 

[Neptune]

Saw it on a defense site. Specs of Levent-class LHD and other ships that participated in the tender.