Turkey wants to become an ASEAN member

[Aepsilons]

is it supposed to be a joke?
turkey has long sought membership to the european union. will she give up the goal?

Of course not, my friend. Afterall, ASEAN already operates in the ASEAN + 3 framework , why not include Turkey? ASEAN has a framework with India, Japan, South Korea, China, the United States, respectively.

Yeah.. Turkey is in South East Asia. SCO I would love to, but Asean? WTF is up with that Georgian thief?

I would ask you to remove preconceived notions of hostility when you address the topics in this thread, my friend. Turkey + ASEAN would be a purely economic and diplomatic machination. Btw, Turkey's economy is $822 Billion (USD). That is more than the Gdps of the Philippines, Vietnam, Myanmar, Brunei, Laos, Cambodia COMBINED.

LOL!!!!

Turkey's economy is actually substantially LARGE. Wealth of opportunities in including Turkey is not just relegated to economic terms, but also socio, cultural, diplomatic capital, and, of course, defense aperture.

Invite you to think multifactorially, multidimensionally, and objectively.

 

[atatwolf]

Precisely, my brother. I believe Turkey and Japan can be engines of growth for an Asian Maritime Silk Road. From Turkey to the West, and Japan to the East, and the rest of Asia in between.

I also hope to one day see more joint Turkish-Japanese naval exercises in the Black Sea and in the Sea of Japan.

Merhaba! Ottoman-Japan !




Such a beautiful piece of military machinery, brother. Japan should purchase these to augment our own ground forces.

I love the sleek design....



More of this, my brother !

Even Poland rejects joining the EU. Why should Turkey join EU? After a decade it became clear that their refusal to let Turkey in was a blessing in the sky. Turkey is only growing economy in Europe now. We are not paying the debt of the Greeks and other failed states. We have freedom in policies thanks to staying out of EU. For Turkey it is better to strike strategic economic deal with the only economy in Europe which is Germany and lesser degree UK and France.

 

[William Hung]

is it supposed to be a joke? if not, turkey has long sought membership to the european union. will she give up the goal? I can´t imagine how turkey will fit into asean organisation.

Is EU membership and ASEAN membership mutually exclusive? I never heard of it.

Turkey joining ASEAN actually makes alot of sense. Doesnt really cost Turkey anything but will gain a lot of benefits. By being part of Asean, Turkey can be part of:

-RCEP
-ASEAN plus 3
-ADMM
-East Asia Summit
-APEC

So Turkey can gain both trade benefits AND instant political influence in Asia. Just imagine, an ASEAN summit where the Uyghur issue is on the main agenda. Or the Uyghur issue getting raised in a East Asia Summit or APEC meeting. This can easily happen once Turkey become part of Asean.

If Turkey take this seriously, I’m pretty sure our govt would be one of the first to support it, just to troll China. Not kidding.

 

[IR-TR]

Even Poland rejects joining the EU. Why should Turkey join EU? After a decade it became clear that their refusal to let Turkey in was a blessing in the sky. Turkey is only growing economy in Europe now. We are not paying the debt of the Greeks and other failed states. We are have freedom in policies. For Turkey it is better to strike strategic economic deal with the only economy in Europe which is Germany and lesser degree UK and France.

I think you need to take a look at a map, and at Turkey's trade statistics. Then maybe you could answer why Turkey would want to join the EU. And finally, ask the average Turk where they'd rather live, in Europe or in Indonesia.

Of course not, my friend. Afterall, ASEAN already operates in the ASEAN + 3 framework , why not include Turkey? ASEAN has a framework with India, Japan, South Korea, China, the United States, respectively.



I would ask you to remove preconceived notions of hostility when you address the topics in this thread, my friend. Turkey + ASEAN would be a purely economic and diplomatic machination. Btw, Turkey's economy is $822 Billion (USD). That is more than the Gdps of the Philippines, Vietnam, Myanmar, Brunei, Laos, Cambodia COMBINED.

LOL!!!!

Turkey's economy is actually substantially LARGE. Wealth of opportunities in including Turkey is not just relegated to economic terms, but also socio, cultural, diplomatic capital, and, of course, defense aperture.

Invite you to think multifactorially, multidimensionally, and objectively.

Those +3 are next to ASEAN. The 'framework' is BS for America to nose in. Nothing southeast asian about America. Nothing really pacific about it either actually, but that's already settled. Turkey should pursue FTA with every single country on earth. But Asean with a country thousands of miles away? Silly.

SCO? YES please. Silk road? Yes please!

 

[Aepsilons]

is it supposed to be a joke? if not, turkey has long sought membership to the european union. will she give up the goal? I can´t imagine how turkey will fit into asean organisation.

Turkey is undergoing a diversification of trade partners, and Turkey no longer is solely dependent on Europe as it was back in 2000. One of the fastest growing trade partners of Turkey is Asian Countries, East Asian and Southeast Asian, to be exact.

Please refer to quantitative data:

Notice that in 2000 Europe accounted for 53.7% of Turkey's trade, this dropped to only 37.6% in 2012; a drop of 16.1% (-16.1%), whereas Asia is growing. This is a paradigm shift, my friend.

With such economic developments, comes with political and diplomatic changes.

Even Poland rejects joining the EU. Why should Turkey join EU? After a decade it became clear that their refusal to let Turkey in was a blessing in the sky. Turkey is only growing economy in Europe now. We are not paying the debt of the Greeks and other failed states. We have freedom in policies thanks to staying out of EU. For Turkey it is better to strike strategic economic deal with the only economy in Europe which is Germany and lesser degree UK and France.

LOL! Yes, precisely. I was in Warsaw 2 years ago for an academic conference , and you know what i was surprised to see? They don't even use the EURO as the currency in that country, but still use the Zloty. European Union just in political name, my friend, and for trade and investment purposes. The recent developments in Greece will probably see the removal of the Euro as mode of currency in Greece, and back to the drachma. Well, we'll see.

The point is -- Asia is where the future is at. There are so much opportunities in Southeast Asia, South Asia and Southwest Asia.

 

[atatwolf]

I think you need to take a look at a map, and at Turkey's trade statistics. Then maybe you could answer why Turkey would want to join the EU. And finally, ask the average Turk where they'd rather live, in Europe or in Indonesia.



Those +3 are next to ASEAN. The 'framework' is BS for America to nose in. Nothing southeast asian about America. Nothing really pacific about it either actually, but that's already settled. Turkey should pursue FTA with every single country on earth. But Asean with a country thousands of miles away? Silly.

SCO? YES please. Silk road? Yes please!

Greeks are starving in the EU. Same with Italy and Spain where unemployment is sky high. The European dream is over. The only real economy is Germany. Soon the other nations in EU will be sucking tip for a living. Soon Turkey will provide Russian and Turkic gas and oil to Europe. Europe can join Turkey in the future if they want.

LOL! Yes, precisely. I was in Warsaw 2 years ago for an academic conference , and you know what i was surprised to see? They don't even use the EURO as the currency in that country, but still use the Zloty. European Union just in political name, my friend, and for trade and investment purposes. The recent developments in Greece will probably see the removal of the Euro as mode of currency in Greece, and back to the drachma. Well, we'll see.

The point is -- Asia is where the future is at. There are so much opportunities in Southeast Asia, South Asia and Southwest Asia.

In two decades Europe will loose its economic place in the world. They simply can't compete anymore.

-Human resource is quickly diminishing because of low birth rates.
-Europe doesn't have innovation other than Germany.
-Expensive labor

As a lot of people believe, wealth in the world will move from west to east and the first country there is Turkey. If Japan creates zone of influence in Asia, Turkey should join it.

 

[Viet]

Turkey is undergoing a diversification of trade partners, and Turkey no longer is solely dependent on Europe as it was back in 2000. One of the fastest growing trade partners of Turkey is Asian Countries, East Asian and Southeast Asian, to be exact.

Please refer to quantitative data:

Notice that in 2000 Europe accounted for 53.7% of Turkey's trade, this dropped to only 37.6% in 2012; a drop of 16.1% (-16.1%), whereas Asia is growing. This is a paradigm shift, my friend.

With such economic developments, comes with political and diplomatic changes.

economics is one thing. I´m very sceptical of the turkey policy, especially the nationalistic tones from Erdogan. with all islam driven tendency in the country. I don´t know, either where turkey is heading to? what turkey really wants?

 

[Aepsilons]

Europe can join Turkey in the future if they want.

LOL!

Ottoman Empire 2.0, my brother ?

 

[IR-TR]

Greeks are starving in the EU. Same with Italy and Spain where unemployment is sky high. The European dream is over. The only real economy is Germany. Soon the other nations in EU will be sucking tip for a living. Soon Turkey will provide Russian and Turkic gas and oil to Europe. Europe can join Turkey in the future if they want.

The difference between Turkey and Greece is simply that Turks do work hard, if there are jobs and economic opportunities. Greeks are lazy, and like to eat other people's money. This is not just an anti-Greek comment. Greeks have been holding up their hands for a thousand years now, whether the French or Germans or Turks that have been feeding those lazy bastards. If Turkey can get double the European investments in, the economy would be twice as big. Turks work and want to get ahead. Not sleep and reminisce about those 'great times of Aristotle'.

 

[Lure]

Turkey is part of both Europe and Asia. Culturally, the Turks are Middle Easter, Linguistically speaking they are Central Asian, ethnically they are a beautiful mixture of Central Asian and Middle Eastern with a tad bit of European.

But I consider my Turkish brothers as Asian.

@xenon54 @Sinan @atatwolf @Lure @Hakan

Hey @Nihonjin1051, that's a good topic.

If we are talking about genetic composition of Turkish people in Anatolia there are quite a few well established works that definitely claims gene pool of people of Turkey are originating in Anatolia and resembles it's surroundings, there is some mixture -albeit very little- of central Asian genes.

If you ask the regions that is most influential for Turkis people's gene pool, the regions are :

Mediterranean region : 25% of Anatolian people carries the same hablogroups with South Italy, Greece and other Mediterranean shores.

Western Europe/North West Asia : 15% of Anatolian people carries same hablogroups with Western Europeans (i.e. Britain, France and Northwestern Asia i.e. Slavic people)

Causcus : 11% of Anatolian people carries same hablogroups of people from Causcus.

North Africa : 11% of Anatolian people carries same hablogroups with people from North Africa -mainly Egypt- .

Middle East : 9% of Anatolian people carries same hablogroups with Arabic people in Middle East. This genetic composition is predominant in Eastern and Southeastern parts of Turkey where large groups of Kurds and Arabs living.

The list goes on. If you have time you can read the entire wikipedia article.

Genetic history of the Turkish people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course if we are talking cultural resemblance Turkish people took their language from Central Asia and took their religion from Middle East. Both language and religion are extremely important for culture. The political environment and system definitely resonates with European values more than they do with Middle Eastern or Central Asian countries. Women has the right to be elected (and we had a women president) and to vote since 1934, Turkey conducts multiple party elections since 1946. Neither Middle East nor Central Asia has the history of making elections like that or providing political rights to women.

 

[Aepsilons]

economics is one thing. I´m a bit sceptical of the turkey policy, especially the nationalistic tones from Erdogan. with all islam driven tendency. I don´t know, either where turkey is heading to?

You have to understand the context of political drives by Erdogan, my friend. You have to understand the deep complex nature of Turkey's borders, remember that she has to sternly guide her eastern gate from verminous ISIS hordes , as well as separatist forces , which must and should be put down. Imagine , my friend, what would happen of the Khmer Krom in southern Vietnam were to arm themselves with weapons and fight the Government in Hanoi , calling for referendum and independence, thus thereby destroying the national unity of Vietnam? Do you honestly think that Vietn Nam will sit idly by and nodd ? Of course not, you know that, i know that. Vietnam People's Army would crush dissidents and separatist forces, come on man, your army invaded Cambodia and put down the Khmer Rouge, i think you know the full extent of Vietnam's agenda to maintain national solidarity.

So, can we not say the same for Turkey? Put yourself in Turkey's shoes, consider the political and tense military environment on her borders. A civil war in Syria, nationalism in Armenia, ISIS and civil war in Iraq, instability in Lebanon, nationalism from the Greeks, Russian militarism to the north. Yet despite this ocean of instability, Turkey remains, relatively, an ocean of calm. A nation of 80 million, a representative , participatory democracy, a republic, which was immune to the Arab Spring. This tells you the level of high stability in Turkey.

As for Islam. There is nothing wrong with this, and ASEAN countries should not see this as a fear tactic. Indonesia is the largest muslim nation in the world, a population of over 256 million (that is almost 3 times the size of Turkey). Yet you don't see instability in Indonesia. Indonesia is a republic, far more stable than Thailand, or Myanmar, Cambodia.

Lastly, observe Turkey's contribution to peace keeping through her dozens of missions in the UN, NATO. Lastly, Turkey houses over 3.5 million Syrian and Iraqi Refugees in her eastern border. She houses them, provides medical aid, provides national resources for these vast amount of refugees. That , my friend, is an act of a rational, mature, dependable, ally and power.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Turkey wants to be in ASEAN let them in ASEAN.

That's won't be in our decision to say, just let Indonesia and Turkey diplomatic machine work, and wait for the best outcome.

Exactly, we would be really happy with it: FNSS/Indonesian Government/Undersecretariat of Turkish defence industry signed an agreement to develop a light tank concept based on Kaplan-20 to be Indonesian main light tank/IFV vehicles.

A little bit correction, this agreement should be about medium tank development not light tank. Around 30 Ton. We are glad to be assisted by the best expertise from Turkey, a friendly state with proven and mature defense industry. This is the latest medium tank design that unfold just few months ago.

 

[Aepsilons]

Dear God in Heaven, who is clothed in eternal splendor !

Is it really that bad in Greece ?

 

[bsruzm]

That's won't be in our decision to say, just let's Indonesia and Turkey diplomatic machine work, and wait for the best outcome.




A little bit correction, this agreement should be about medium tank development not light tank. Around 30 Ton. We are glad to be assisted by the best expertise from Turkey, a friendly state with proven and mature defense industry. This is the latest medium tank design that unfold just few months ago.

View attachment 242934

''FNSS/Indonesian Government/Undersecretariat of Turkish defence industry signed an agreement to develop a light tank concept based on Kaplan-20''

I think that agreement is independently from ongoing Indonesian Medium Tank development.

 

[William Hung]

economics is one thing. I´m very sceptical of the turkey policy, especially the nationalistic tones from Erdogan. with all islam driven tendency in the country. I don´t know, either where turkey is heading to? what turkey really wants?

Now you are talking like a German and not like a Vietnamese. Why was the US, India etc. invited to East Asia Summit, Asean Defence Minister Meeting Plus, etc? It is to balance China. And thats what a lot of Asian country cares about. And this is the same reason why Viet Nam would welcome Turkey to Asean. So you are not really thinking as a Vietnamese here.

And do you know how hard it is for a non-Asia Pacific country to join EAS, APEC, ADMM+, etc? Its pretty hard unless you are a major power. By joining Asean, Turkey would get instant membership. Its like entering through a back door cheat. The more I think of it, the more I realize this is a damn clever move by Erdogan, assuming he was serious.

 

[atatwolf]

Dear God in Heaven, who is clothed in eternal splendor !

Is it really that bad in Greece ?

Especially after the OXI refendum it got really bad. They were only allowed to take 60 euros and now the capital controls got lifted but everybody is in panic mode. Their economy is in free fall as money is poring out of the country. All businesses are bankrupt or going bankrupt because of capital restrictions. The new austerity is only going to make it worse.