Turkey to develop new medium combat aircraft

[Mr.Department]

But that timeline is simply impossible, ridiculous ... just look how long Hongdu needed to develop the L-15/JL-10 based on the same design.

Panavia Tornado development began 1970 maiden flight was 1974.
(Exceptless all platforms are further develeoped. That's fact.)

Nothing is ridicilous . Read my full post and bring it in correlation with TAI-CEO's announcement.
Temel Kotil mentioned the same date. M-346 is ready , that's my key argument.

https://www.manset24.com/bilim-ve-teknoloji/hurkustan-sonra-hurjet-de-geliyor-h18350.html
"TUSAŞ Genel Müdürü Temel Kotil, Hürjet’i ilk uçuş tarihini 2022 olduğunu açıklarken,

It could make it's first flight in 4-5 years, but of course it won't be ready just because it can fly. Lots of avionics+weapons to be installed and tested additional 2-3 years, and then additional 2-3 years to setup serial production line and produce jets.

I expect this project to give it's first serial production jets into Turkish Airforce inventory in next 8-10 years.

TAI CEO said that we have a full avionics and electronics package for HÜRJET ready.
In the article the mentioned data are exact the data of M-346 - Mach 1.2 Ceiling 45.000 feet

 

[OguzSenturk]

TAI CEO said that we have a full avionics and electronics package for HÜRJET ready.

I know that he said that, yet this has nothing to do with my comment.

 

[Deino]

Nothing is ridicilous . Read my full post and bring it in correlation with TAI-CEO's announcement.
Temel Kotil mentioned the same date. M-346 is ready , that's my key argument.

And my argument is simply the experience: If TAI want to "indigenise" the design similar to China by adding new engines, new avionics, maybe some airframe changes and so on it WILL need more than three years, that's a fact.

So either You accept that and do a realistic estimation or it simply cannot be a M-346-derived design. Even three years for a M-346 alone manufactured in Turkey is a heavy task ...

And by the way the credibility of TAI concerning its announcements and the facts it delivers is another proof how irrational, impossible this timeline is.

When the first image of the contender for the US TX contest was posted some guys were claiming it is a close to ready-to-fly design ... it was a lousily made mock-up, nothing more and now the design for that jet was changed again leading to the assumption that not even the former design was finished ... and You claim in three years it will fly and even be certified.

Nothing will happen until then. If TAI manages to get that design ready by then would be a tremendous achievement alone ... by the way did anyone already speak to Alenia-Leonardo Aerospace?? You did not even include the negotiations on being allowed to base Your proposal on that design.

Panavia Tornado development began 1970 maiden flight was 1974.

But that was the UK, Germany and Italy together at the height of the cold was with all three a tremendous expertise in designing & developing military aircraft ... and now You have Turkey alone with none such experiences, only licence production and by the way You guys want also to develop a plethora of additional projects like the TFX, these helicopters, UAVs ... in parallel; IMO forget it. Pure propaganda.

Deino

 

[xenon54 out]

And my argument is simply the experience: If TAI want to "indigenise" the design similar to China by adding new engines, new avionics, maybe some airframe changes and so on it WILL need more than three years, that's a fact.

So either You accept that and do a realistic estimation or it simply cannot be a M-346-derived design. Even three years for a M-346 alone manufactured in Turkey is a heavy task ...

And by the way the credibility of TAI concerning its announcements and the facts it delivers is another proof how irrational, impossible this timeline is.

When the first image of the contender for the US TX contest was posted some guys were claiming it is a close to ready-to-fly design ... it was a lousily made mock-up, nothing more and now the design for that jet was changed again leading to the assumption that not even the former design was finished ... and You claim in three years it will fly and even be certified.

Nothing will happen until then. If TAI manages to get that design ready by then would be a tremendous achievement alone ... by the way did anyone already speak to Alenia-Leonardo Aerospace?? You did not even include the negotiations on being allowed to base Your proposal on that design.



But that was the UK, Germany and Italy together at the height of the cold was with all three a tremendous expertise in designing & developing military aircraft ... and now You have Turkey alone with none such experiences, only licence production and by the way You guys want also to develop a plethora of additional projects like the TFX, these helicopters, UAVs ... in parallel; IMO forget it. Pure propaganda.

Deino

The date 2023 is a key date which marks the 100th anniversary of Turkish republic, this is why the year 2023 is put on most projects, nobody actually believes that those projects will be finished by then, it is for propaganda.

 

[OguzSenturk]

It is not for propaganda, and nobody claims that those projects will be finished by then. The claim is first flight of the aircraft, not done product.

People always confuse about first flight and finished products.

First flights are the begginnings of the flight tests to testing aerodynamics in real worlds conditions additional to virtual engineering softwares.

will make first flight =/= will be ready for serial production.

First operational Hürjet fleet would be done in 2027-2028.

 

[xenon54 out]

It is not for propaganda, and nobody claims that those projects will be finished by then. The claim is first flight of the aircraft, not done product.

People always confuse about first flight and finished products.

First flights are the begginnings of the flight tests to testing aerodynamics in real worlds conditions additional to virtual engineering softwares.

will make first flight =/= will be ready for serial production.

First operational Hürjet fleet would be done in 2027-2028.

I also dont believe in a first fly in 2023, its simply not possible since we dont have the know-how nor do we have the infrastructure yet.
I would be happily surprised if i see a flying prototype in 5 years but i dont believe it.

Anka was comissioned in 2004 and made its maiden flight in 2010, and we are talking about a combat aircraft here.

 

[OguzSenturk]

I also dont believe in a first fly in 2023, its simply not possible since we dont have the know-how nor do we have the infrastructure yet.

Even Hürkuş made it's first flight after 7 years, why couldn't Hürjet do that in 10 years? Works for Hürjet didn't start yesterday but with TF-X. TF-X isn't just F-X, but also includes T-X (Trainer-X)

T-X, aka Hürjet is probably in concept desing stage, and there is 6 years to 2023. I don't see anything impossible, specially after we look increased capabilities of TAI since 2006 (where Hürkuş project started)

 

[BATMAN]

Fighter variant of the Hurjet advanced trainer jet

The first Turkish local-design medium combat aircraft is set to make its maiden flight in 2022, said Temel Kotil, the CEO of Turkish Aerospace Industries.

The new combat aircraft, called the Hurjet, will design to provide advanced training of military pilots and enhanced mission performance to the air forces on the battlefield. On the basis of the new aircraft will be developed new advanced jet trainer and light fighter aircraft.

According to the Turkish media, the Hurjet will be equipped with modern flight control system designed to operate at speeds of Mach 1.2 at a maximum altitude of 45,000 feet.

More: China unveils new L-15B light-attack aircraft

The fighter variant of the Hurjet trainer jet will have nine weapon hardpoints and attachments for a 3-tonne payload. It can be deployed in ground support roles, including air-to-ground attack, tactical, close air support and interdiction with precision guided munitions.

More: Ukraine to develop new light strike aircraft

Some source reported that the Hurjet aircraft possibly equipped with new Ukraine-made Ivchenko-Progress AI-222-25F turbofan engines. The engine was originally intended for the Russian Yakovlev Yak-130 and Chinese Hongdu L-15 trainer aircraft.

Hurjet advanced jet trainer

http://defence-blog.com/news/turkey-to-develop-new-medium-combat-aircraft.html

Twin engine trainer! it can't be.

 

[Deino]

...
People always confuse about first flight and finished products.
....

strangely @ATALAY himself claimed this:

"I believe that we will see the jet trainer soon in the air (within 3-4 years, which is the time duration for full certification)"

Deino

 

[OguzSenturk]

strangely @ATALAY himself claimed this:

"I believe that we will see the jet trainer soon in the air (within 3-4 years, which is the time duration for full certification)"

Deino

Who cares atalay? He is a known troll that is being banned whenever his ban timeline ends Probably mods didn't figure out that his ban ended.

 

[Mr.Department]

that was the UK, Germany and Italy

It is not for propaganda,

If you take Alenia Leonardo as partner and get the airframe licence and experience of Alenia- Yak experience it is possible.
If the decision is made for Spartan coproduction. You have partner in your boat. There are many sources where Motor Sich is mentioned for engines. Buying the licences integrating domestic components and it will ready to 2022.

 

[xenon54 out]

Even Hürkuş made it's first flight after 7 years, why couldn't Hürjet do that in 10 years? Works for Hürjet didn't start yesterday but with TF-X. TF-X isn't just F-X, but also includes T-X (Trainer-X)

T-X, aka Hürjet is probably in concept desing stage, and there is 6 years to 2023. I don't see anything impossible, specially after we look increased capabilities of TAI since 2006 (where Hürkuş project started)

Time will tell but a jet aircraft has different challenges not to be taken lightly, as said it would be a huge archivement if they manage to do it but its not very realistic.

 

[Mr.Department]

It is a real challenge as Xenon said. But most people forget that licences can accelerate the whole procedure. UAV engine PD-170 are also heavy modified MB car engines and licenced. That accelerated the whole process. That is all my opinion and everybody can say his opinion.

 

[Deino]

If you take Alenia Leonardo as partner and get the airframe licence and experience of Alenia- Yak experience it is possible.
If the decision is made for Spartan coproduction. You have partner in your boat. There are many sources where Motor Sich is mentioned for engines. Buying the licences integrating domestic components and it will ready to 2022.

Dear @ATALAY, please don't get me wrong and I admire both Your enthusiasm and the latest Turkish developments in the aerospace sector, however I beg to remain realistic.

Your sentence alone includes three huge IFs and IMO even two more are system inherent:

- If you can reach an agreement with Alenia ... so far no negotiations started
- If a decision is made for Spartan coproduction
- If Motor Sich is getting contracted ... also far from concluded yet.
- If the political situation is stable enough and budget is granted
- If technically everything goes fine ....

In conclusion too much if and nothing done yet ... three years are impossible; period.
Every other claims can simply be taken as wishful thinking, nationalistic propaganda or wet-dreams from some fan-boys.

Deino

 

[Mr.Department]

Dear @ATALAY, please don't get me wrong and I admire both Your enthusiasm and the latest Turkish developments in the aerospace sector, however I beg to remain realistic.

Your sentence alone includes three huge IFs and IMO even two more are system inherent:

- If you can reach an agreement with Alenia ... so far no negotiations started
- If a decision is made for Spartan coproduction
- If Motor Sich is getting contracted ... also far from concluded yet.
- If the political situation is stable enough and budget is granted
- If technically everything goes fine ....

In conclusion too much if and nothing done yet ... three years are impossible; period.
Every other claims can simply be taken as wishful thinking, nationalistic propaganda or wet-dreams from some fan-boys.

Deino

I don't take it personal or emotional. I am not CreteGeorge from Waffer, nor do I argue as it is usual there.
In every project are risks which could delay.
You don't know what is already agreed under strict NDA's. But there are many hints which point in the direction I tried to explain. Cabatli quoted Motor Sich possibility. I quoted Kokpit Aero writers opinions and Tweets in relation with Spartan. All this people are respected experts and I try to build my own opinion based on the mentioned quotes and free available informations. Nobody is perfect, even Burak Ege, who is writing for Janes, but here is always attacked as " Bokdil" and others are not free from mistakes. In correlation with Turkish medium airlifter project he mentioned Antonov as Russian manufacturer.
Let's agree if all goes optimal and licences are given it could, I point, could be in the air 2022. Thats 4 years. 2017 passed. Thanks for kind message.