Turkey is 'making NATO very uncomfortable'

[TheGrim]

I think if you relate this to the US refusal to sell Perry Class frigates to Turkey, it points towards an overall weakening of relationship. But I don't see NATO ever removing Turkey from the Alliance. NATO without Turkey is just 3 countries, US France, UK.

As if we needed those ships, the Navy wanted them to simply scavenge spare parts...what some members of NATO don't feel comfortable with is that Turkey is actually outgrowing it's initial role as a simple watch guard to NATOs eastern flank and is actually on the way to becoming an assertive regional power. It makes them feel uneasy that the country they are used to dictating is actually making up its own mind and in some cases, dictating back to them.

 

[SipahSalar]

As we needed those ships, the Navy wanted them to simply scavenge spare parts

I don't think Turkey needed those ships either. Turkey makes better frigates already. BUT that is not the point. What i was trying to point out was that a NATO ally refused to sell used outdated ships to Turkey.

 

[-SINAN-]

I think if you relate this to the US refusal to sell Perry Class frigates to Turkey, it points towards an overall weakening of relationship. But I don't see NATO ever removing Turkey from the Alliance. NATO without Turkey is just 3 countries, US France, UK.

Not selling but donating....not to mention US offered to donate it's older ships to Turkey in the past. Turkey refused 3 times in the past. Because those ships comes with strings attached. All of the donated ships' maintenance & over-hauling has to be done by US shipyards which brings extra costs for Turkey.

But it may be interpreted as weakening relations of US and Turkey, or may be it's irrelevant as they know that we would refuse just another time.

 

[hunter_hunted]

Provide what,do you mean military technology or something else?

Yes military i dont know about civilian tech. And this article states that ......

 

[T-123456]

Yes military i dont know about civilian tech. And this article states that ......

You think Chinese military technology can top that of the NATO or Russia?

 

[atatwolf]

There are more benefits staying in NATO than staying out. We already paid the price for being part of NATO by fighting in the Korean War. Now it is time to reap the benefits. We have Patriot missiles protecting our borders. If they take those back we won't have any thing to replace it with. Being part of the west has huge benefits. We shouldn't want to be another Iran lead by thick heads and not thinking 5 minutes ahead from now. NATO has huge benefits. Training, tech transfer, newest weapons, etc. we might not get everything we want but it is better than nothing. No relationship is perfect.

 

[FutureMe]

There are more benefits staying in NATO than staying out. We already paid the price for being part of NATO by fighting in the Korean War. Now it is time to reap the benefits. We have Patriot missiles protecting our borders. If they take those back we won't have any thing to replace it with. Being part of the west has huge benefits. We shouldn't want to be another Iran lead by thick heads and not thinking 5 minutes ahead from now. NATO has huge benefits. Training, tech transfer, newest weapons, etc. we might not get everything we want but it is better than nothing. No relationship is perfect.

No NATO no brains?

 

[Kamil_baku]

"Crimea as scared to Russia as Temple Mount to Islam or Judaism." - Vladimir Putin

Russians finally got Crimea back, so now they can easily project and station as many nuclear submarines they want in Sevastopol, a warm-water port that never freezes over, a strategic benefit Russians as a people can't deny.

The Russian president's push to secure the military outpost he leases from Ukraine could bring the entire region under Russian control.

nuclear submarine will be an easy target in black sea(shallow water). it makes too much vibration and sounds, also cooling system can be seen by thermal cameras. thast why Russia mass produce its diesel submarine to get its upper hand..

The Armenians have a sympathetic trend on their side.I'm sry but historically they really had a lot more land in the region than they do now thus Europeans tend to be sympatethic to their cause.On top of that,Azerbaidjan is a theocracy ruled by a family clan and Germany is very scrupulous about such clients.

Russia sells because they know that no amount of military stuff will be enough for Azerbaidjan to go against Armenia as Russia will step in immediately.

I know it's easy to play the religious card when things don't go your way but for God's sake just take a look before at EU's anti Christian policies before playing that card.If these guys in Bruxelles have their way there won't be any Christianity within 50-60 years in Europe.

Why Germany sells submarine to SIngapure, or other Arab gulf states? Even in the USA, Bush father and Son were presidents.. thats not really meaning a lot..
People also willing to support them, as they afraid, in case somebody else come to power, they might be funded by RUssia, IRAN, Europe, USA or so on... but now, Azerbaijan has its own policy, which you cant deny and the best economy in the Caucasus..
Just to give you example, our army budget is almost twice the budget of whole Armenian budget..
Mr European, explain more please... ??

Oh that is typical fear mongering. You cannot equate Crimea with Turkey. Russia has had claims on Crimea since centuries. You cannot think Russia will try to dominate Turkish Navy through it's one port in the area.
As far as i know, Turkish Russian ties are going to improve.

There is no real treat, but in case of Karabakh war, if Turkey is enough strong, the Russia will not directly involve..
On the other side, After Crimea, Russia also wanted to get some lands from Kazakhistan. Putin even mentioned in TV that there were never a country called Kazakhistan before, and Kazakh leader sent history books to Kremlin..
But, thanks to Turkish army technology, and its sensitive, Russia didnt risk it, as Turkey might help to Ukrain with army technologies or for another reason..

No NATO no brains?

if you were not in NATO, would you be able to participate in f35 project and all those TOT with 200 million investment? lets be honest... Without them, Turkey would probably be another Iran..

 

[flamer84]

Why Germany sells submarine to SIngapure, or other Arab gulf states? Even in the USA, Bush father and Son were presidents.. thats not really meaning a lot..
People also willing to support them, as they afraid, in case somebody else come to power, they might be funded by RUssia, IRAN, Europe, USA or so on... but now, Azerbaijan has its own policy, which you cant deny and the best economy in the Caucasus..
Just to give you example, our army budget is almost twice the budget of whole Armenian budget..
Mr European, explain more please... ??

What's there to explain ? I personally have nothing against Azerbaidjan ,i just told you how the Germans see it or how i think they see it.

 

[Kamil_baku]

What's there to explain ? I personally have nothing against Azerbaidjan ,i just told you how the Germans see it or how i think they see it.

i believe that! we have good relations with ROmania anyway... it would be off topic, but i love ROmanian girls accent in english. its actually in my travel list as a party heaven..)
Anyway, im happy to hear it. I believe, Germans always late to politic strategy in history and as they are cold people, but i respect to their manufacturing abilities..
The only thing i dont understand, why they share the sensitive army technology with CHina?
they sold their UAV engine manufacturer to CHine, selling navy engines to CHina and so on... even there were patriot found in FInland was going to CHina..

 

[FutureMe]

if you were not in NATO, would you be able to participate in f35 project and all those TOT with 200 million investment? lets be honest... Without them, Turkey would probably be another Iran..

Let's be honest without NATO, or before NATO we had started making our own planes. And then came NATO and we lost our ability to make planes.

 

[flamer84]

i believe that! we have good relations with ROmania anyway... it would be off topic, but i love ROmanian girls accent in english. its actually in my travel list as a party heaven..)
Anyway, im happy to hear it. I believe, Germans always late to politic strategy in history and as they are cold people, but i respect to their manufacturing abilities..
The only thing i dont understand, why they share the sensitive army technology with CHina?
they sold their UAV engine manufacturer to CHine, selling navy engines to CHina and so on... even there were patriot found in FInland was going to CHina..

Never heard about the last one.

Let's be honest without NATO, or before NATO we had started making our own planes. And then came NATO and we lost our ability to make planes.

Tell me about it........

IAR 80 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IAR-93 Vultur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IAR 99 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






Such is life..........I don't think it's about NATO but more political and economical will....

 

[Kamil_baku]

Let's be honest without NATO, or before NATO we had started making our own planes. And then came NATO and we lost our ability to make planes.

thats true.. But, we are also going to a period that COuntries will not sell sensitive technologies to even ally countries, because many of those can be copied. US started with its F22 and im sure it will follow. Thats, i believe, Turkey started to manufacturing army technologies at the right time..
Its now Turkish time to offer its technology to NATO countries, and believe me, there is huge potential..
I only want TUrkey to focus how to increase its population!! thats very important... As Tayyip mentioned, every family should have at least 3 children. i really loved this idea.. Turkey also keeps the house prices down. with expensive apartments, nobody really want to marry.. thats what happened in Europe..

Never heard about the last one.




Tell me about it........

IAR 80 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IAR-93 Vultur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IAR 99 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






Such is life..........I don't think it's about NATO but more political and economical will....

Finland 'finds Patriot missiles' on China-bound ship - BBC News

The Finnish authorities have impounded an Isle of Man-flagged ship bound for China with undeclared missiles and explosives, officials say.

Police are questioning the crew of the MS Thor Liberty after what were described as 69 Patriot anti-missile missiles were found aboard.

Interior Minister Paivi Rasanen said the missiles were marked "fireworks".

The MS Thor Liberty had docked in the Finnish port of Kotka after leaving Germany last week.

Dock workers became suspicious after finding explosives poorly stored on open pallets, and the missiles were then found in containers marked "fireworks".

The managing director of the ship's owner, Thorco Shipping, expressed surprise. Thomas Mikkelsen told AFP news agency from Denmark that he was unaware of the matter.

Another company official, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed the ship had been detained in Finland and said the missiles could have been loaded on to the vessel by mistake, AFP adds.

Police did not confirm Finnish media reports that the ship had also been scheduled to stop in South Korea, Reuters news agency reports.

'Quite unusual'
The MS Thor Liberty left port in Emden, northern Germany, on 13 December and docked two days later in Kotka, southern Finland, to pick up a cargo of anchor chains, said Finnish Customs spokesman Petri Lounatmaa.

Patriot missile systems are supplied to US allies
It was bound for the Chinese port of Shanghai but there was no indication for whom the military cargo was destined.

Routine checks by Finland's traffic safety authority revealed a load of up to 160 tonnes of improperly packed nitroguanidine, a low-sensitivity explosive with a high detonation speed.

"Actually in our investigation at the moment, we have got the information that we found 69 Patriot missiles on the ship and around 160 tonnes of explosives," said Detective Superintendent Timo Virtanen from the Finnish National Bureau of Investigation.

Interior Minister Rasanen said she had not heard of a similar case.

"Of course, there are legal transports of weapons or defence material [through Finland] but in this case the cargo was marked as containing fireworks," she told Finnish media. "That is quite unusual."

Mr Lounatmaa said customs officials and police had launched a joint investigation into a possible breach of Finnish export and weapons trading laws.

He said that the crew of about 32 were being questioned.

Patriot missiles, designed by the US company Raytheon, are supplied to "US and allied forces", according to the company's website. South Korea is among states which deploy them.

 

[atatwolf]

Let's be honest without NATO, or before NATO we had started making our own planes. And then came NATO and we lost our ability to make planes.

Yes, but without NATO help, we would be making mock-up fighter jets, tanks and helicopters like Iran. Without tech transfer from Italy or Korea, or other NATO allies we would be able to sprint start our industry. And those countries wouldn't have given us their tech if we were hostile to NATO and stepped out.

 

[FutureMe]

Yes, but without NATO help, we would be making mock-up fighter jets, tanks and helicopters like Iran. Without tech transfer from Italy or Korea, or other NATO allies we would be able to sprint start our industry. And those countries wouldn't have given us their tech if we were hostile to NATO and stepped out.

Don't you see that we would have started much earlier to build our own military industry in the first place. Given that there was a leadership that wants to do so as there is now. I believe there was NATO influence in stopping Turkey from building our own military industry in the fourties. It could not be that the leadership of the time pulled this task of stopping all by themselves.