TTP has threatened KP government, wants to establish its rule in KP

[SQ8]

Pashtunwali is what makes a Pashtun, this is something they agree upon - they don't accept people like Imran Khan as truly one of their own, they label him Punjabi.

Their ethnofacistic nature is also strictly against what you are saying though - you say enforced cultural progression and opportunities, well they will see that as a cultural genociding or "Punjabisation" and be against it.

You also mentioned Peshawar - why is it changing in a more "progressive" manner? Exactly the reason I mentioned above - exposure to Punjabi cultural influence which makes them more open minded and less hateful.

Same way Pashtuns in Afghanistan only become like this through Persian influence.

Any pure Pashtun following his individual tribal culture of Pashtunwali is ethno-facistic by nature and cannot live in harmony with other races.

I'd say the cultural differences of western and Eastern Pakistan are too distant which prevents social cohesion and harmony. If Pakistan is to survive and be stable, western Pakistan must be integrated to Eastern culture or at least to a significant degree.

How was this done before for areas which were not part of the center - we can look at historical precedent that goes beyond Pakistan for the peoples of India - I see some sneaking by Indians who may have an idea of historical precedent in integrating wayward populations which also did exist in parts of India .. eh @Kaniska?

 

[Areesh]

Yeah they are jealous of not being shot at with no protection while the brass leads in BMWs as that give their *** good protection

When I see people who love army and nawazd Sharif corruption I feel good because I say you are deserving what you are getting

Inshallah dollars to

400..next

Yes TTP is unintentional proxy of army..we all see the non series attitude of army as compared to how India srilanka and turkey are dealing with enemies

So now TTP is downgraded from proxy of Pak army to unintentional proxy of Pak army?

Okay. But still no proof or satisfying logic that TTP is proxy of Pak army even if unintentional. Still waiting for that one solid reason for the claim that you and some others have made

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Pashtunwali is what makes a Pashtun, this is something they agree upon - they don't accept people like Imran Khan as truly one of their own, they label him Punjabi.

I’ve never heard of anyone calling Imran Khan “Punjabi”.

If that was the case how does he get massive support in the rural areas of KPK?

Very ironic that a Punjabi somehow knows more about what Pashtuns think than Pashtuns themselves about Imran Khan.

Their ethnofacistic nature is also strictly against what you are saying though - you say enforced cultural progression and opportunities, well they will see that as a cultural genociding or "Punjabisation" and be against it.

Says who?

The number 1 reason why people vote PTI is for development. PTI doesn’t play on ethnic politics.

You also mentioned Peshawar - why is it changing in a more "progressive" manner? Exactly the reason I mentioned above - exposure to Punjabi cultural influence which makes them more open minded and less hateful.

PTI developed Peshawar more than during ANP’s time when they were ruling Peshawar. Peshawar became more developed so more progressive. When development stalls like we see in interior sindh and Balochistan than people become xenophobic and resentful.

Same way Pashtuns in Afghanistan only become like this through Persian influence.

No, most hardcore ANA supporters were Farsi speaking Pashtuns.

Any pure Pashtun following his individual tribal culture of Pashtunwali is ethno-facistic by nature and cannot live in harmony with other races.

Why isn’t all of KPK in an insurgency yet?

I'd say the cultural differences of western and Eastern Pakistan are too distant which prevents social cohesion and harmony. If Pakistan is to survive and be stable, western Pakistan must be integrated to Eastern culture or at least to a significant degree.

Cultural differences get exacerbated with a bad economy.

Things weren’t bad when the economy was doing good.

What you are suggesting would lead to more destabilization. There are only pockets of the insurgency.

When I see people who love army and nawazd Sharif corruption I feel good because I say you are deserving what you are getting

Inshallah dollars to

Lmaooo

 

[TheSolution]

I’ve never heard of anyone calling Imran Khan “Punjabi”.

If that was the case how does he get massive support in the rural areas of KPK?

Very ironic that a Punjabi somehow knows more about what Pashtuns think than Pashtuns themselves about Imran Khan.

I've heard it countless times, especially from Pashtun nats.

I don't think I know more than you, but I do think you aren't always honest.

The common belief held that for someone to be a true Pashtun or be considered one - is they follow Pashtunwali, be Muslim and also speak Pashto while having Pashtun ancestry - according to this definition Imran Khan would not be considered Pashtun.

He is Punjabi-ised.

Why isn’t all of KPK in an insurgency yet?

How many non-Pashtuns realistically live in any of the tribal districts or outside of some urban hotspots? What is the population of non-Pashtuns in general in Pashtun areas?

You migrate freely to other lands and settle there, make money, but you would not allow the same in your own land and would complain.

 

[ziaulislam]

So now TTP is downgraded from proxy of Pak army to unintentional proxy of Pak army?

Okay. But still no proof or satisfying logic that TTP is proxy of Pak army even if unintentional. Still waiting for that one solid reason for the claim that you and some others have made

Look the whole game plan has always been make money

This has been story since the 1950s countless examples from Yemen war to sento cento afghan war and 9/11

TTP role like all the above is simply to be a money making machine..if army neutralizes TTP how will it sell it shaheed card ask money in budget and ask USA for more money???

Hence why TTP lives while Kashmir jihad, srilankan rebels war, and Kurdish independence war is dead..

If that's too hard to you to digest then it's okay but what matter is dollars..how you get it doesn't matter

Lack of buying protective equipment for FC and army foot soldiers (cannon fooder) and lack of pressurizing Taliban can only be explained by this.

If you have any other explanation please do explain to us why army can't pay 300 million dollars and get 2-3000 armoured vehicles??

 

[Areesh]

Look the whole game plan has always been make money

This has been story since the 1950s countless examples from Yemen war to sento cento afghan war and 9/11

TTP role like all the above is simply to be a money making machine..if army neutralizes TTP how will it sell it shaheed card ask money in budget and ask USA for more money???

Hence why TTP lives while Kashmir jihad, srilankan rebels war, and Kurdish independence war is dead..

If that's too hard to you to digest then it's okay but what matter is dollars..how you get it doesn't matter

Lack of buying protective equipment for FC and army foot soldiers (cannon fooder) and lack of pressurizing Taliban can only be explained by this.

If you have any other explanation please do explain to us why army can't pay 300 million dollars and get 2-3000 armoured vehicles??

Don't give me these stories man. Yemen war, Sento blah blah

How many soldiers were killed by TTP in just last year in 2022 and how much money corps commander and other generals got from USA in that same year?

Just answer this

 

[ziaulislam]

Don't give me these stories man. Yemen war, Sento blah blah

How many soldiers were killed by TTP in just last year in 2022 and how much money corps commander and other generals got from USA in that same year?

Just answer this

100s of soldier died

Who knows we do know everyone retires out of the country no one declare there assets in army anyone who tries is forced out.


Anyway all is good haji Asim sahab zindabad

 

[Areesh]

100s of soldier died

Who knows we do know everyone retires out of the country no one declare there assets in army anyone who tries is forced out.


Anyway all is good haji Asim sahab zindabad

Who knows?? That is your argument? Who knows?

 

[Kaniska]

How was this done before for areas which were not part of the center - we can look at historical precedent that goes beyond Pakistan for the peoples of India - I see some sneaking by Indians who may have an idea of historical precedent in integrating wayward populations which also did exist in parts of India .. eh @Kaniska?

Thank you for tagging me @SQ8 ..

1- I am not sure if India is completely successful in it, but for now, we are not doing as badly as Pakistan...
In general, in India, we assume that we are a hugely diverse nation...So it is well-accepted fact that we may find a different kinds of food, behavior, and difference in opinion when you travel more than 100 KM in India...

2- In general, Hindus, in general, are docile in nature...As we do not have any concept of conversion, so there is not any serious urge for the missionary concept of religious conversion which is of course different than Hindus react when they worry about themselves being converted to others. So it is eliminating any probability of a majority population in their thought process getting engaged in use less task of providing why one's religion is supreme.

But my thought process about TTP - KP issue is different. I feel you should not see within the framework of the cultural prism. You should consider TTP or anyone who is anti-national, in the same prism...Just think about India and the Kashmir issue....Even if during the BJP tenure, you must have observed the difference between Indians who are Hindus and Muslims, Almost all of the Muslim leadership as well as Muslim intellectuals support the same narrative as per New Delhi...Our political establishment from both mainstream, as well as cultural level, are equivocal supporting our nationalistic narrative. But in Pakistan, i am amazed to see, there are still people, political parties, and a good amount of intellectuals who have double thoughts in condemning terrorist and their supporters...So prior to taking any action on TTP, you need to come up with a unified no-nonsense approach to how to deal with children's killer TTP without any double thoughts.....

 

[AgnosticIndian]

I see some sneaking by Indians who may have an idea of historical precedent in integrating wayward populations which also did exist in parts of India

Wayward population would not be the right term, but I think the example of Naga insurgency might be relevant here. A magazine Caravan recently did an article on election participation increased and conflict/war decreased. The magazine is leftist so they start by trying to deny any credit to Modi, but still have good information.

BJP and allies will likely win Nagaland—but not because of Modi

It may be tempting to credit Modi for the electoral shift in the Northeast, but that would be an oversimplification.

caravanmagazine.in

Different religion due to conversions, with some separatists also insisting on separate cultural heritage, terrain also being mountainous with population divided in close tribes. Sounds kinda Waziristan if you squint.

The answer here, at least according to that article, is money. Try to get a peace agreement and give lots of money to whatever leaders agree to join your side of at least agree for a ceasefire. Promise even more funds to elected leaders. This creates an incentive for people to join your side, run for elections, vote for "their people" in hopes of getting some share of the money, and basically participate in your system. Apparently even the "rebel leaders" own several businesses in Mumbai etc and have children studying and working in Bengaluru now so there isn't that much willingness to separate anymore.

 

[ziaulislam]

Who knows?? That is your argument? Who knows?

My argument is have fun
I love Asim sahab
I love DHA

 

[villageidiot]

I have always believed that the reality is much simpler than most Pakistanis think. PTI/PTM/MQM etc are just factions of various gangs within the military. One of the gans went full retard and is now being cut back to size!!

Spoken like a true indian.

@Areesh

 

[SQ8]

Wayward population would not be the right term, but I think the example of Naga insurgency might be relevant here. A magazine Caravan recently did an article on election participation increased and conflict/war decreased. The magazine is leftist so they start by trying to deny any credit to Modi, but still have good information.

BJP and allies will likely win Nagaland—but not because of Modi

It may be tempting to credit Modi for the electoral shift in the Northeast, but that would be an oversimplification.

caravanmagazine.in

Different religion due to conversions, with some separatists also insisting on separate cultural heritage, terrain also being mountainous with population divided in close tribes. Sounds kinda Waziristan if you squint.

The answer here, at least according to that article, is money. Try to get a peace agreement and give lots of money to whatever leaders agree to join your side of at least agree for a ceasefire. Promise even more funds to elected leaders. This creates an incentive for people to join your side, run for elections, vote for "their people" in hopes of getting some share of the money, and basically participate in your system. Apparently even the "rebel leaders" own several businesses in Mumbai etc and have children studying and working in Bengaluru now so there isn't that much willingness to separate anymore.

Has that solved cultural issues though - rebel leaders having businesses or children studying doesn’t address the right aspect. Basically, the issue here is reforming an archaic culture using existing reformed people from that culture.

No unless Naga are fully embracing Indian society - no longer prone to violence or kidnappings and so on it doesn’t solve the issue. Also, naga rebels aren’t the best analogy - I would almost think of a situation akin to what Sir Syed needed to with the muslim polity all isolated to get them to engage with the British system(ironic since that “get with the occupation”) tone is resonating these days in that area

Thank you for tagging me @SQ8 ..

1- I am not sure if India is completely successful in it, but for now, we are not doing as badly as Pakistan...
In general, in India, we assume that we are a hugely diverse nation...So it is well-accepted fact that we may find a different kinds of food, behavior, and difference in opinion when you travel more than 100 KM in India...

2- In general, Hindus, in general, are docile in nature...As we do not have any concept of conversion, so there is not any serious urge for the missionary concept of religious conversion which is of course different than Hindus react when they worry about themselves being converted to others. So it is eliminating any probability of a majority population in their thought process getting engaged in use less task of providing why one's religion is supreme.

But my thought process about TTP - KP issue is different. I feel you should not see within the framework of the cultural prism. You should consider TTP or anyone who is anti-national, in the same prism...Just think about India and the Kashmir issue....Even if during the BJP tenure, you must have observed the difference between Indians who are Hindus and Muslims, Almost all of the Muslim leadership as well as Muslim intellectuals support the same narrative as per New Delhi...Our political establishment from both mainstream, as well as cultural level, are equivocal supporting our nationalistic narrative. But in Pakistan, i am amazed to see, there are still people, political parties, and a good amount of intellectuals who have double thoughts in condemning terrorist and their supporters...So prior to taking any action on TTP, you need to come up with a unified no-nonsense approach to how to deal with children's killer TTP without any double thoughts.....

The problem here is - you’re fighting culture.

It’s almost like saying you want to redo East Pakistan and suppress Bengali culture if aspects(which may not be their fault entirely) of it were actually harming the Bengali people and keeping them suppressed.

It’s a rock and a hard place because trillions and 20 years from the United States did not change this entrenched idea enmasse although it did spur a change which was squandered by corrupt leadership.

Building schools in those tribal areas is a step - but if the elders and more importantly the political leadership is hell bent on saying X while doing Y and allegedly so are members of the deep state - then the common man will resent change regardless.

 

[my2cents]

What will drones do ? bomb the TTP and their supporters ? people will claim " Genocide " of Peaceful Pashtoons, and more will rally and join the TTP cause, bhai problem is not TTP but the people, have it ever occurred to you that despite having more Muslims than Pakistan, Indian Muslims are not blowing themselves up, why? We blame India that they pay BLA, so you pay people and they are like, sure let me send a 16 year old strapped with explosive to kill a bunch of kids, try offering the same thing to a person from a civilized society, Truth will always remain the truth that our ethnic group are uncivilized barbaric racist backward people, that is why it is so easy for TTP/JuA/ISIS to recruit from them, that is why they operate without fear in their areas, that is why their target audience is always Pashtoon and Baloch.

Pakistan is heading towards a dark future, people had hope with Army but now we have Homosexual's running GHQ, their priorities are in making p0rn videos and playing with journalists/ministers D1cks than protecting Pakistan, tu phir Allah hi Hafiz hai na Pakistan ka.

They use religion to mobilise and motivate people to their cause. Even Aurangzib did that to fight against his own brother Darah Shikoh who he considered as murtad, an apostate, a non believer. It is a powerful tool that should be used wisely.

 

[Hamza913]

lets face it man we arent fighters. We were Farmers. Our indus valley ancestors were also killed off by the Afghans.

Speak for yourself