TTP has threatened KP government, wants to establish its rule in KP

[ziaulislam]

But keeping the terrorism alive is having a serious impact in other areas, I don't think it's a trade worth making.

How much FDI or tourism, investment, do you think we have lost due to the security situation?

Although what you're saying does sound possible honestly

What does corps commanders gain from FDI, tourism or investment? Nothing

But they do again a lot from scaring the people of Syrian consequences and running tax exempted military inc and CSF funds with no real audit ...

Now I believe this is flawed thought process but problem is military people IQ isn't that high(otherwise why would they bring ishaq dar!?)

If Pakistan develops and terrorism disappears then the people will come for corps commanders and military inc..questions will be asked..

 

[Erieye]

What does him being Pashtun have to do with "beating around the bush"

most punjabi will beat around the bush when it comes to pointing out common faults within them, same with sindhi, muhajir, baloch and pashtun.

my point is an ethno-nationalist is about having ethnic dominance - ethnicity comes first and then ideology after.

So many Ghani supporters and non-religious afghan pashtuns including women, their singers and women who wear no hijab or those in west with boyfriends and stuff suddenly became taliban supporters over night, because ethnicity is first not ideology. they dont want to hand control to tajiks even if the ideology is good.

 

[TheSolution]

What does corps commanders gain from FDI, tourism or investment? Nothing

But they do again a lot from scaring the people of Syrian consequences and running tax exempted military inc and CSF funds with no real audit ...

Now I believe this is flawed thought process but problem is military people IQ isn't that high(otherwise why would they bring ishaq dar!?)

If Pakistan develops and terrorism disappears then the people will come for corps commanders and military inc..questions will be asked..

I will agree with you here actually, could be a possibility and makes a little sense

 

[Erieye]

PTM was founded after Naqeebullah Maseed's encounter, the movement went off its original path and were rubbing elbows with PPP (the ones who control Sindh police lol).

All the Lar O Bar Yao Afghan parties died in the 2013 election in KPK, they got wiped out by PTI. 2018 saw the death of those parties in Balochistan. Only Islamist parties and PTI won the bulk of the Pashtun areas.

Have no idea why you are overexaggerating the threat of Lar O Bar Yao Afghan when its practically dead in Pakistan.

the parties may have died but the ideology lives on and can easily be reignited.

i am just being honest with you, i just dont see in my mind how you can divide the same ethnicity, language, culture and religion based on a multi-ethnic nationality with little history. if i am being brutally honest is afghanistan not more representative of pashtuns than pakistan?

correct me on the above if my assumption is incorrect

What does corps commanders gain from FDI, tourism or investment? Nothing

But they do again a lot from scaring the people of Syrian consequences and running tax exempted military inc and CSF funds with no real audit ...

Now I believe this is flawed thought process but problem is military people IQ isn't that high(otherwise why would they bring ishaq dar!?)

If Pakistan develops and terrorism disappears then the people will come for corps commanders and military inc..questions will be asked..

what if they simply dont have enough money to provide the right weapons to truly deal with terrorism ?

i know lots of people talk of MRAP, bulletproof vests and all high tech equipment but what if it is simply not cost effective and will drain our resources, economy and bleed us - which seems to be the real goal of these insurgencies.

it is funny because it was our policy to bleed India through a thousand cuts, it is happening to us instead...

 

[ziaulislam]

the parties may have died but the ideology lives on and can easily be reignited.

i am just being honest with you, i just dont see in my mind how you can divide the same ethnicity, language, culture and religion based on a multi-ethnic nationality with little history. if i am being brutally honest is afghanistan not more representative of pashtuns than pakistan?

correct me on the above if my assumption is incorrect


what if they simply dont have enough money to provide the right weapons to truly deal with terrorism ?

i know lots of people talk of MRAP, bulletproof vests and all high tech equipment but what if it is simply not cost effective and will drain our resources, economy and bleed us - which seems to be the real goal of these insurgencies.

it is funny because it was our policy to bleed India through a thousand cuts, it is happening to us instead...

That is very good point however Pakistan military budget is 1200 billion rupees
Turkey offered 2000 MRAPS for just 80billion rupees.

USA has delivered over 200 MRAPS free of cost that were never deployed hence they stopped delivery of more fearing they will be used against India

It cost more to take care of dead and injured then getting them protection

 

[Meengla]

I never said they are on payroll..I said military is not serious on tackling the issue because it's in their interest that low intensity high causality attacks continue (brownie points) and the upper leadership remains intact.. similar phenomenon was seen in srilanka where there were no serious efforts to tackle the Tamil threat.

We clearly see that here..lack of seriousness.. military will chop the stem but will not root it out for reasons stated above

We will just agree to disagree.
I absolutely don't agree with the idea that the Pakistani military has any stake in keeping 'low intensity' or any kind of insurgency to keep going. The military has enough on its plate with international boundaries and the quickly evolving geopolitical landscape in which Pakistan is an integral part. And too many militants who are draining Pakistan's potentials. Pakistan's security agencies, including the ISI, are not as capable as people give them credit to engineer the kind of machinations where even the senior most Generals are target!!
To keep the 'Military Inc' enterprise going, the threat from India was enough and will be enough. No need to have the likes of TTP or TLP to help in that. On the contrary, the more these militants cause havocs in Pakistan, the more they damage Pakistan's economy and the more they deplete Pakistan's military budget. It is a common sense conclusion to arrive at!
And as long as there is no peace with India, Pakistani military will remain relevant. The last thing any Pakistani would want would be to be India's sidekick in the Subcontinent.

 

[PakFactor]

i know lots of people talk of MRAP, bulletproof vests and all high tech equipment but what if it is simply not cost effective and will drain our resources, economy and bleed us - which seems to be the real goal of these insurgencies.

it is funny because it was our policy to bleed India through a thousand cuts, it is happening to us instead...

Don't take me the wrong way, but that approach is stupid if we keep thinking that providing MRAPs, vests, etc., is a drain on resources. On the contrary, treating and rehabilitating a wounded veteran is a massive drain on national resources, let alone extra costs to provide for the family.

A wounded, abled body man is not just a loss of monetary funds but also skills and knowledge of operations depending on an officer or soldier of various branches. I believe it was Hazrat Umar who balked at a Sahabi when he said only a "few" were shaheed, and he said even those "few" were too much; he'd instead give away the Kabba in exchange for them.

Our military's mindset isn't that different from the Russian high command that you pile on bodies to try and achieve an objective, and then you are forced to use ill-trained soldiers to fill the gaps, essentially cannon fodder. So our motto is "we have jazba," basically saying to be a blind fool. It's not an army I would serve in knowing what your worth is in Pakistan.

As you mentioned, losing men and women in the field is a thousand cuts we've received.

 

[Sayfullah]

unintentional proxy of Pak army

I don’t agree with the word “proxy” but Pakistan army has created its own enemies by its own actions.
The most recent example is probably JeM and many of them turning to Daesh.

The racism in this thread alone proves why Pakistan cannot be secular

 

[ziaulislam]

We will just agree to disagree.
I absolutely don't agree with the idea that the Pakistani military has any stake in keeping 'low intensity' or any kind of insurgency to keep going. The military has enough on its plate with international boundaries and the quickly evolving geopolitical landscape in which Pakistan is an integral part. And too many militants who are draining Pakistan's potentials. Pakistan's security agencies, including the ISI, are not as capable as people give them credit to engineer the kind of machinations where even the senior most Generals are target!!
To keep the 'Military Inc' enterprise going, the threat from India was enough and will be enough. No need to have the likes of TTP or TLP to help in that. On the contrary, the more these militants cause havocs in Pakistan, the more they damage Pakistan's economy and the more they deplete Pakistan's military budget. It is a common sense conclusion to arrive at!
And as long as there is no peace with India, Pakistani military will remain relevant. The last thing any Pakistani would want would be to be India's sidekick in the Subcontinent.

You will have to agree that there is conflict of interest at minimum with respect to army not auditing it's funding

You will also have to agree that no matter what is the Truth it doesn't matter !!! what matters is public perception and what I am describing is public perception

Lastly if I agree with you then both of us will have to, at minimum agree is that army is incompetent for it's inability to squash a movement in 20yrs which for past two years has no backers (since USA RAW left, as afghan Taliban was/are a proxy for Pakistan army[per US intelligence] or closely at Min allied)

 

[Erieye]

I don’t agree with the word “proxy” but Pakistan army has created its own enemies by its own actions.
The most recent example is probably JeM and many of them turning to Daesh.

The racism in this thread alone proves why Pakistan cannot be secular

Racism proves that cultural assimilation is the key to Pakistan's survival.

You can't rely on Islamisation as it ignores the natural tribalistic nature of humans.

Pakistan should probably send a contingent to Turkey for some kind of course to learn about accelerating cultural assimilation - turkey is doing this with kurds. Ironically some afghan king had done that in the past...

 

[Bossman]

DJ Ice Pyaar

I have always believed that the reality is much simpler than most Pakistanis think. PTI/PTM/MQM etc are just factions of various gangs within the military. One of the gans went full retard and is now being cut back to size!!

Who the F are you to preach to Pakistani. You think you are some smart a$$ Indian who come to this forum in their forum with either superior or patronizing attitude thinking that they are very smart until they are humiliated and leave the forum with their tails between their legs.

 

[Sayfullah]

Racism proves that cultural assimilation is the key to Pakistan's survival.

You can't rely on Islamisation as it ignores the natural tribalistic nature of humans.

Pakistan should probably send a contingent to Turkey for some kind of course to learn about accelerating cultural assimilation - turkey is doing this with kurds. Ironically some afghan king had done that in the past...

Except, much of JeM is not Pashtun. A lot of the fighters who switched over to Daesh are Punjabis. Race alone doesn’t solve anything. TTP has fighters from all of Pakistans ethnicities. Where one group has majority of one ethnicity, the other has an another ethnicity as majority.

 

[Corruptistan]

You are answering your own question.

Panjabis are 3 different major religions which creates an ideological divide - the whole point of Pakistan's creation btw.

Pashtuns are all the same religion. Notice how there's no real ideological divide for them to be considered different in any aspect apart from their respective countries?


75 years is inconsequential in history. Historically it is very tiny and doesn't differentiate the same populations.

Maybe if there were some sort of aggressive assimilation programs going on in that time then you'd have a point.

PTM and Lar au Bar Yao Afghan wouldn't exist if this was true.

In such a case we can conclude that we are both answering the question of this thread's main topic, why the various communities and ethnic groups within Pakistan have not yet developed a sufficiently strong national identity that triumphs ethnicity.

Well the simple answer is that Pakistan is just a 75 year old country. It usually takes longer to form a strong national identity (unless you go the way of Ataturk) and especially in a country such as Pakistan where the sole dominating identity was a vague idea of "Islam" to set it apart from majority Hindu Bharat. That and in general Pakistan having enough on its plate to be able to fully develop/forge a strong national identity due to instability, a useless Pakistani elite by large etc. with diverging interests.

 

[Erieye]

Except, much of JeM is not Pashtun. A lot of the fighters who switched over to Daesh are Punjabis. Race alone doesn’t solve anything. TTP has fighters from all of Pakistans ethnicities. Where one group has majority of one ethnicity, the other has an another ethnicity as majority.

TTP is a hijacked Pukhton nationalist groups mixed with Islamic masala. Just like Afghan Taliban.

 

[R2D2]

Racism proves that cultural assimilation is the key to Pakistan's survival.

You can't rely on Islamisation as it ignores the natural tribalistic nature of humans.

Pakistan should probably send a contingent to Turkey for some kind of course to learn about accelerating cultural assimilation - turkey is doing this with kurds. Ironically some afghan king had done that in the past...

Which nationality has Turkey assimilated - Kurds, who want independance since the last sixty years?