TTP got hands on MANPADS

[Tiger Genie]

Looks like the Taleban has learnt proxy war a bit too well from its masters at ISI. Look at this: Now they, the Taleban, have gotten the whole of Pakistani military and government and cyber warrirors frenetically engaged in proving that Taleban DID NOT DO IT!

Pakistanis should ask themselves a question: how is it that a group that has been the single minded target of their highly self-acclaimed military - the army and the airforce and the SSG and the Rangers...- for a whole year now, are able to sit there and conduct press conferences, video shoots, internet bulletins and even engage the Pak military as their PR agents? This is impunity given to them by your most powerful ISI. It has to be. No one else knows the Pak military and the jihadis as ISI does.

Yes indeed, it must be really heart warming for 'normal' 'law abiding' 'civilized' Pakistani citizenry to hear their military commanders engaged furiously in defending the taleban and proving they did not do it.

 

[انگریز]

What the hell is this appendage on top of Pak Army Fennec?
This chopper was with the Diplomatic convoy,one of which crashed.

 

[Indus Falcon]

What the hell is this appendage on top of Pak Army Fennec?
This chopper was with the Diplomatic convoy,one of which crashed.

Communications Antenna

 

[انگریز]

Communications Antenna

This one doesnt have any

 

[syedali73]

This one doesnt have any

But that one does not belong to PAA. Specifications differ among users.

Indian media = presstitutes

 

[Indus Falcon]

This one doesnt have any

So What is this?

 

[Psychic]

But northern alliance is not running around in Iran claiming to shoot down helicopters with Manpads! Its former members also do not blow up themselves in schools, markets or streets, they don't attack schools to kill tens of kids today, etc.

Don't take it personally, it has nothing to do with Iran and you know it. Try to answer my post without looking into my nationality. Taliban and Pakistan relations is not about Iran.

If northern alliance was doing terror attacks against Iran today, yes I would blame my countrymen first and foremost. Besides, volume of arms given to NA by Iran is not comparable to Pakistan's support for Taliban and allied groups in Afghanistan.

First learn the difference between TTP and Afghan Taliban and then post.

 

[PakGuns]

LOL

wrong.. Indian media were quoting Pakistani media when reporting about Pakistani taliban

just you try another 90's style insurgency in J/K, we'll scrap 370, expand afspa and be done with the Kashmir issue once and for all

indeed everything has a prize, these are your jihadi snakes that are biting you now, this is the price you're paying because you let the house of saud islamize and radicalize your society

laal masjid, taliban, contract killers, hate preacher mullas... <- Pakistan's internal problems, quit blaming India.

Y you talk like that you actually can do it in that simple way? You couldn't handle bunch of trained militants during kargil...lolz

The point to ponder is, if they have this capability, why didn't they exercise it in N. Wasiristan, where they are being pounded day and night. These idiots are quick to make and release videos, I'm sure they would have filmed themselves firing a missile. Sometimes back, they even claimed shooting down of a PAF F-16, they were quick to show some parts of it, apparently all for their propaganda efforts. Apart from gunfire, no PAF or PAA pilot ever reported seeing a missile fired at them, and even if one was to believe that they have active man pads, is it remotely possible that they scored with their first strike. Naltar is a PAF facility, and with so much VIP movement, can you imagine the security blanket that must have been in place.

I saw a video here 2,3 months ago made by taliban on ground where cobras were flying over their heads at low altitude and a running chicken had his camera on....they didn't shot down that How can they even fire at this one.? Btw the weather in NALTAR now-a-days isn't in good shape yet for desert rats....one just can't travel by road there because of army....and can't cross those terrains when there's snow around....

 

[انگریز]

The SAM(SA-7/SAM-7) is quite an old version & most probably is from the soviet /Afghan era.It's has got no fangs to bite against the new tech.But as expected PAA will be following the basic SOPs for the Mi-17s.
Like they should add exhaust shroud/suppressors and ensure that there are countermeasures on board.With an effective range of 2-3 Km basic evasive maneuvering with decoy flares will very much keep the pilots safe if they find themselves in a vulnerable position.

The cobras can take care of themselves very well.And AH-1's are the real ones on the front line.Next good thing will be to take out the rat who has pushed the trigger ,as not many trained bastards will be standing in line to take his place (also for them these missiles are a precious/expendable resource).Mi-17 can only be a target if they can secure a space on the relatively safer passages.One can rule out that possibility.

We can't left any room for error by getting casual about it.

Above is an Iraqi Mi-171E with suppressors on. Americans had done it as well.\/\/\/

BTW the propaganda scrap metal SAM shown by TTP/Indian Bollywood video does not and did never have heat seeking mechanism.
It works on a vector calculating guidance system. Basically the operator initially targets the missile cross hair on the Heli or prop plane and operator tracks the target for a few seconds before firing. This initial tracking by operator creates a vector in the Guidance circuit and missile then goes on rendezvous towards the target,assuming the target is flying at constant speed and direction. The missile assumes that after so may seconds the target will be at a certain place and heads for that spot in the air. If there is any change in target's speed or direction,the missile will miss the target as it don't have any error correction or active homing mechanism.

 

[Sine Nomine]

And most importantly why so many survivors if it indeed was a manpad. And was it an invisible missile that dozens of eyewitnesses couldn't see.

Yes sadely Mi-17 was hit by an invisible missile known as Vedic missile which uses cow dung as warhead and piss as fuel and it's seeker head is made of idiocy found abundant in Indian trolls............

 

[S.U.R.B.]

did never have heat seeking mechanism.
It works on a vector calculating guidance system. Basically the operator initially targets the missile cross hair on the Heli or prop plane and operator tracks the target for a few seconds before firing. This initial tracking by operator creates a vector in the Guidance circuit and missile then goes on rendezvous towards the target,assuming the target is flying at constant speed and direction. The missile assumes that after so may seconds the target will be at a certain place and heads for that spot in the air. If there is any change in target's speed or direction,the missile will miss the target as it don't have any error correction or active homing mechanism.

Brother @انگریز , you are incorrect here.The missile in question quite likely is the one which is a heat seeking version i-e 9K32M (and not just the 9K32 ).The exact designation of the SAM system is Sterla 2M /SA-7b.

The SA-7a (9K32 Strela-2) was introduced for service in 1968, but was soon replaced by the SA-7b (9K32M Strela-2M) which became the most common production model.After 1971 anything that came out in the name of Sterla was the 9K32M ,as the previous one was discontinued.The SA-7a had a slant range of 3.6 km and a kill zone between 15 and 1500 meters in altitude, with a speed of about 430 meters per second (Mach 1.4). The SA-7b has a slant range of about 4.2 km, a ceiling of about 2300 meters, and a speed of about 500 meters per second (Mach 1.75).

Both the SA-7a and SA-7b are tail-chase missile systems, and its effectiveness depends on its ability to lock onto the heat source of low-flying fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft targets.The missile have got a Passive IR homing device as it's guidance system.

In Afghanistan too ,it was SA-7b (i-e 9K32M) which saw the action.
The method to negotiate with it was the same through out the time as i've mentioned it in my previous post.

Some images for the interested audience​

Against the US they too have been using the SA-7b version.

Link to the new:
Taliban in first heat-seeking missile attack - Telegraph



The Talibans are not using the IFF system here as the OP suggests ( they may not need it).Because for them anything that flies is a Foe.Now that you know your enemy.It gets easier to tackle.

The shelf life of the missile and all other specifics is actually another relevant debate and it depends upon the source which have been used to provide those missiles to the TTP. Can you bet your life on a notion that almost all the missiles are useless and that thing doesn't work at all,with out discussing the source?
Well i can not.


Following is a compact reference about it.
SA-7b Grail-b 9K32M Strela-2M portable air defense missile system technical data sheet specification | Russia Russian army light heavy weapons UK | Russia Russian army military equipment vehicles UK

(Please read more about it before you quote me again, cheers!)

 

[Zarvan]

It is strange as Pakistan army declared RAW sponsoring terror in Pakistan TTP announces they have MANPAD in their arsenal. Point to ponder is they weren't able to obtain it in 10 years of war. What changed this time and how did they obtain it ?


Screen shots from the Taliban video of the SAM-7:














@balixd @Icarus It's a matter of grave concern

Pakistan needs to go for hot pursuit and bomb every expected hide out of Mullah Radio and his allies.

 

[Mrc]

This video does not prove any thing. It probably is an old scrap metal missile. But other possibility is that its a functioning missile and TTP has been re supplied by their supporters since they are at a verge of complete defeat...
So their supporters are changing the game especially with pak china economic corridor in sight..

No worries but all helis should have counter measure if some dont have still...
Strong intelligence over drive needee to asses and locate such missiles...they might use it against a commercial plane....
All that said if this indeed is a functional missile from their supporters......

As far as nelter is concerned ; survivors wud remember the bang of missile hit even if they did not see any thing...which is not the case....

 

[asad71]

1. Ages back I have been skiing in PAF Naltar. There are few places in the world to match its panoramic beauty. Whereas Gilgit-Baltistan generally is home to some of the highest peaks in the world, Naltar valley itself is fairly wide and open. Area is sparsely populated with everyone knowing everyone. An outsider would be identified immediately. The chopper bumping against a peak would be unlikely. The height 5,000 ft is an issue for choppers and not all pilots fly at that height.

2. If this was a MANPAD hit I suppose there would be no survivors. Some unforeseen malfunction appears to have caused the crash. The area is heavily forested with pines which would have provided a cushion , so we have some survivors.

3. Nah, I won't blame TTP or even RAW for this one.

 

[ziaulislam]

Heli accident in Pakistan was an accident for sure and I firmly believe that it was an accident until and unless it was hit so low by someone 3 kms away from it. It is not at all possible but and a big but is Taliban (Pakistan) if not today will have access to it tomorrow. They can have it anytime, it is about time. If not from inside source (Pakistan has many terrorist symphatesiser within forces) then if I go according to Pakistan media their handlers will provide it to them one day. Just like the way Pakistan dragged USSR into it, the same way regional players will not allow Pakistan to go so easily.



You are wrong. It is more than that, moreover it was not SA-7 it was SA-18.

even a sa -18 has maximum range under ideal conditions of 4-5km and usually range 2-3 km to be effective. security would have clean that much area for any attack to be viable anyway
anyway its stupid to reply a someone who just created his/her profile for this thread

The Sterla M2 the TTP claims to have in posession of was a soviet era weapons and upgraded version have max range of 5.5 Km. So the TTP is again caught with their pants down when they claim they actually fired the missile from 7 Km away and hit a moving target.

there is a difference between maximum firing range and actual effective range. the actual range is no more than 2-3km at best. thereclaim would have made more sense had they target it on the way rather than where it was landing

even a sa -18 has maximum range under ideal conditions of 4-5km and usually range 2-3 km to be effective. security would have clean that much area for any attack to be viable anyway
anyway its stupid to reply a someone who just created his/her profile for this thread


there is a difference between maximum firing range and actual effective range. the actual range is no more than 2-3km at best. thereclaim would have made more sense had they target it on the way rather than where it was landing

they simply took a page from the terrorist in middle east , i.e using propaganda