Trump has all but decided to withdraw from Iran nuclear deal: sources

[Mrc]

Iran now only has one choice... withdraw from NPT and build nukes..

 

[Arminkh]

Iran now only has one choice... withdraw from NPT and build nukes..

That would only prove Trump right. Why would Iran need nukes?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Signing a defense treaty with Iran will put China on collision path with KSA and Israel for sure. I don't think China would ever do that. So I think a defense agreement between China and Iran will not happen in current circumstances as China has more to lose than Iran if that ever happens. I see a defence agreement between Russia and Iran more possible at this moment.

100% correct.

See how much oil China buys from the Gulf Arabs. Israel is a lesser concern, our investment with them is limited. Regarding the USA we are already in a trade war with them so it doesn't matter.

What is the most dangerous for China, is that if we sign a mutual defence treaty with Iran it might look like we are taking the Shia side in the Sectarian divide, which is how Russian involvement is being seen. And China has too many important allies and partners in the Sunni Muslim world to let that happen, we are not Russia. Russia doesn't need to import energy, they can anger the Gulf Arabs as much as they want.

 

[Arminkh]

100% correct.

See how much oil China buys from the Gulf Arabs. Israel is a lesser concern, our investment with them is limited. Regarding the USA we are already in a trade war with them so it doesn't matter.

What is the most dangerous for China, is that if we sign a mutual defence treaty with Iran it might look like we are taking the Shia side in the Sectarian divide, which is how Russian involvement is being seen. And China has too many important allies and partners in the Sunni Muslim world to let that happen, we are not Russia. Russia doesn't need to import energy, they can anger the Gulf Arabs as much as they want.

That is understandable.

I think any country should be able to stand on its own feet if it ever dreams of becoming a world power. Iran should either go though this pain and grow or should abandon its ambitions all together.

 

[royalharris]

The reality is that there are 3 countries today that directly threaten American geopolitical interests and hegemony.
China is by far the biggest threat of the 3 for the americans. The americans realized this. their "pivot to asia" strategy was to reduce focus in the middle east and Europe (Ex. stop getting bogged down into trillion dollar middle east conflicts that iran takes advantage of to kill you with a 1000 pin pricks, and take over the unfluence vacuum the americans leave behind)


IT was in both iran and the USA interests to make peace. if the Iranian economy got integerated with the west. THen iran would have far too much to lose at that point and would be forced to stay a western trajectory. this would have pacified iran, and put it on a long term neutral or even possibly a slightly western path.

All that is dead now. The losers will the the americans, Iran, and the Euros. The winners will be the Zionists, wahabis, and Russia/china.

Now we are faced with a realistic scenario. iran has no choice but to look east. Iran will want to open up strategic relationships with china and Russia. its going to come down to china really. how much short term western pressure can they handle before letting go of iran? (their history is not good in this regard to be honest)

I think were in a different geopolitical stage really and china has to decide. does it want to stand idle while the US tries to take iran and Russia out before coming for it. or is it going to take a stand? Irans choice is obvious, its china that needs to decide



yea Iranian diplomats and zariff are definitely taunting china....... . a persons personal opinion on PDF does not equal national policy. keep that in mind in please

For Iran itself, Iran is a great country
For the world, Iran is just a Small naughty boy

 

[Arminkh]

For Iran itself, Iran is a great country
For the world, Iran is just a Small naughty boy

Any country who threats the current status quo could be perceived naughty. There is nothing wrong with that.

US was considered naughty when it revolted against UK. China was considered naughty after WWII when it was trying to claim its rightful place in east Asia.

 

[TheImmortal]

100% correct.

See how much oil China buys from the Gulf Arabs. Israel is a lesser concern, our investment with them is limited. Regarding the USA we are already in a trade war with them so it doesn't matter.

What is the most dangerous for China, is that if we sign a mutual defence treaty with Iran it might look like we are taking the Shia side in the Sectarian divide, which is how Russia involvement is being seen. And China has too many important allies and partners in the Sunni Muslim world to let that happen, we are not Russia, Russia doesn't need to import energy.

This is exactly why the remaining countries Russia and China are paper tigers. NATO/US will steamroll them before they even know what hit them.

You play all sides in a conflict and at the end of the day you will have ZERO ALLIES.

Wait till the West starts causing trouble for China via Hong Kong and Taiwan.

You simply are being outplayed and can’t understand that US/NATO are wrecking Russia and China from within through none military means.

Just look at Russia, 5-7 years ago Putin was an adored figure in Russia now there is major opposition within Russian political circles. They managed to place missile shield on Russia’s border and overtake a pro Russian country (Ukraine) in a blink of an eye, all without any military intervention.

Military intervention is old school, the new school of the West is to use other countries and weaken the government from within till it collapses on itself.

China just did what Russia did many years ago, which is make their president “dictator for life”. That is exactly what the West wanted. What is russia without Putin? What is China with its dictator president?

US/NATO are playing the long game, they have plenty of time.

They will circle the remaining axis powers over and over until they are too weak. And then those axis powers will have ZERO allies to rely on to help them.

Hell even right now china and russia are strategic allies! They are merely in a marriage of convience. That should tell you all you need to know.

 

[royalharris]

Any country who threats the current status quo could be perceived naughty. There is nothing wrong with that.

US was considered naughty when it revolted against UK. China was considered naughty after WWII when it was trying to claim its rightful place in east Asia.

But USA play too much

This is exactly why the remaining countries Russia and China are paper tigers. NATO/US will steamroll them before they even know what hit them.

You play all sides in a conflict and at the end of the day you will have ZERO ALLIES.

Wait till the West starts causing trouble for China via Hong Kong and Taiwan.

You simply are being outplayed and can’t understand that US/NATO are wrecking Russia and China from within through none military means.

Just look at Russia, 5-7 years ago Putin was an adored figure in Russia now there is major opposition within Russian political circles. They managed to place missile shield on Russia’s border and overtake a pro Russian country (Ukraine) in a blink of an eye, all without any military intervention.

Military intervention is old school, the new school of the West is to use other countries and weaken the government from within till it collapses on itself.

China just did what Russia did many years ago, which is make their president “dictator for life”. That is exactly what the West wanted. What is russia without Putin? What is China with its dictator president?

US/NATO are playing the long game, they have plenty of time.

They will circle the remaining axis powers over and over until they are too weak. And then those axis powers will have ZERO allies to rely on to help them.

Hell even right now china and russia are strategic allies! They are merely in a marriage of convience. That should tell you all you need to know.

 

[zartosht]

Did you have gulp on Jack Daniels??? You talk as if Zionists/US are separate entity. They are not. They are differant iterations of a common force and even Europe fits into this trioka.

American and Zionists interests do not always align. there is a Zionist lobby powerful enough in the west to influence them in a way that they even act against their own national interest to prop up Israel. the only reason Obama was able to get the deal done was because of his extremely good relations with that Zionist lobby.

He managed to sell them on the long term benefits of iran integerating with the west would mean less incentive to challenge Israeli security long term. Hardliners in Israel rejected this and demanded "iran recognize israels right to exist" (make peace and recognize Israel) as a pre-condition of any rapproachment. That's where the dispute lay.

Iran prefers to do business with the West, that's their first choice. They only turn to China and Russia when they have no other choices left, what is left is a transactional relationship. Buying and selling.

Will Iran be able to stomach a deeper strategic relationship with China? Will Iran sign a mutual defence treaty with China, and declare that Arunachal Pradesh belongs to China (which will make India your enemy) and that Diaoyutai belongs to China (which will make Japan your enemy), and that the South China Sea belongs to China (which will make ASEAN your enemy along with the US again)?

If China declares war on any of the countries above, will Iran attack them as well?

I don't think that's possible without a NATO equivalent of a defence treaty. Where the language specifically sais "an attack on one equals an attack on all"

who knows what the world will look like in a 10, 20, 50,100 years time~ maybe we might head that direction?

but today we are not even close. while tension is starting to rise. china and the US are still not directly in challenging each other the way the US is challenging iran and Russia.

China still hasn't had its Ukraine moment like Russia. Where Russia/west had relative normalized relations while the west kept on encroaching on Russian influence and territory by every means possible. The final straw was Ukraine when American supported mobs overthrew a democratically elected government. putin said something along the lines of "Stalingrad taught us if a fight is inevitable, its always better to throw the first punch"

China has not had that moment yet, though it will come. its in chinas interest to delay this as every single day that passes the Chinese are outpacing the americans.

imagine it as a race with no finish line. 20 years ago the americans were going 100km/h to chinas 30km/h and had a 1000km lead. The lead today might be down to a coupe hundred KMs while china is going 150km/h with the americans going 80km/h~

in this equation it is in china's interest to delay conflict as much as possible. but you cannot delay it forever.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Wait till the West starts causing trouble for China via Hong Kong and Taiwan.

Wait until it starts?

You know China was enemies with both the superpowers during the Cold War (USA and USSR).

In the 1950 Korean War, China fought against the USA + 16 of her allies combined, and pushed them into the longest retreat in the history of the US armed forces. This was when China was an undeveloped backwater, we had no air force and didn't even have enough rifles for our troops.

Then in 1969 we fought against the USSR in the Sino-Soviet border conflict. At this time, the USSR was pointing more nukes at China than the USA.

Oh yes, we know the game, and we've been playing it since the founding of the PRC. Our game is to sit back and build up our economic and military power (for decades until we are number 1 in the world), and gradually increase our territory in the South China Sea.

What is your game? And how do you plan to win it?

 

[Flag_Combo]

100% correct.

See how much oil China buys from the Gulf Arabs. Israel is a lesser concern, our investment with them is limited. Regarding the USA we are already in a trade war with them so it doesn't matter.

What is the most dangerous for China, is that if we sign a mutual defence treaty with Iran it might look like we are taking the Shia side in the Sectarian divide, which is how Russian involvement is being seen. And China has too many important allies and partners in the Sunni Muslim world to let that happen, we are not Russia. Russia doesn't need to import energy, they can anger the Gulf Arabs as much as they want.

You're missing much greater geostrategic picture here. Here is a different point of view, I believe Russia, Iran and Venezuela has more than enough oil & gas to supply China without ever having a need to import energy from KSA,UAE and Bahrain, which these countries price it in US dollars and not the Chinese Yuan.

But Russia/Iran and Venezuela are willing to use the recently opened Petoryuan system in which China gets to print its own currency to buy energy needs (not USD which China only get access to it via running a trade surplus with USA). Also remember in case of trade war or tariffs, there'll be less USD available to China because of reduced trade surplus with USA

This is very very important if China wants to become a truly independent country or a superpower, it must be able to acquire its energy ( and other key commodities) needs in your own currency (which PBOC has full control over it & can print on will, instead of USD which is controlled by US Federal reserve) and this mechanism will also prevent any future balance of payment crisis happen to China, which destroyed Asian economies during 90s due to tightening of USD ( increasing interest rates) by Federal reserve. And this how the US,imo, will come after China to contain it.

 

[Ceylal]

I do think the Iranian government is stupid for standing up to a world power - USA.

You mean , take the Pakistan posture to be acceptable? Iran’s action is the right one...and Iran will emerge victorious...Israel didn’t fell from a truck of kippas to tangle with Iran and the US , historically have never attacked a country that can defend itself and worse bring war to her..

June 2015 Iran gets tens of billions of dollars from a deal.
October 2015 Iran starts massive military campaign in Syria.
2018 - most of the Iranians don't notice any improvement in economic situation despite the removal of sanctions.

All the money were spent on killing Syrians, Yemenis, etc.

And you Israël got $30 B from bribery to target kindergarteners....At least Iran got her money back , that was held in the US...The nuclear program advanced under sanctions and quarantine, and they will advance no matter what the US will do, which is nothing..
Israel will have her casseroles banged as well as the Sauds abayas..
@500 , you still have time to skip the country..there is an Iran modified tow, the one Israel furnished in the late 70’s with your tank’s name on it....

Oh, boy... It was the only deal for what I respect America's foreign policy in last decades.

It took a brick layer to undo it...Mark my word, it is just bravado, since he promised to undo it..still 4 Europeen NATO members, Russia and the Chinese....

 

[zartosht]

The Americans have gone all in with this move to topple irans government. sadly for them. keeping the nuclear deal would have actually increased that chance. As a lot of anger and a big cause of that protest were from people frustrated from lack of tangible results from it.

as much as delusional Zionist/American media want to convince themselves. Iranians are not stupid. they know exactly whos in the wrong here. Who is being the bully here, and they now Firmly know whos to blame for their economic problems. this will even be a major eye opener and an embarrassment for a large section of Iranian society and political class that believed iran could trust and eventually reconcile with the US.

Iranians when faced with foreign imposed turmoil Strongly unite. I predict this will actually strenghthen the government (And especially the hardliners) when they were facing an existential threat from the prospect of Iranian/western normalization.

People are dumb if they think iran is going to wave the flag one day and surrender. THe only way the west could have gotten iran on its side was with exactly what Obama was doing. Connect iran into western systems. Make iran have something to lose. and wait for the old revolutionary generation to pass, and younger more progressive Iranians shape the future.

congratulations Zionists.

 

[ejaz007]

Donald Trump declares US withdrawal from Iran nuclear deal
Last-ditch efforts by European allies fail to persuade US president to not pull out from landmark 2015 agreement.

6 hours ago

US President Donald Trump called the Iran deal "defective" [Jonathan Ernst/Reuters]
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US President Donald Trump has announced that the United States is effectively withdrawing from the Iran nuclear deal, defying last-ditch diplomatic efforts by his European allies to convince him otherwise.

"I made clear that if the deal could not be fixed, the United States would no longer be a party to the agreement," Trump said in a highly-anticipated address on Tuesday.

"The Iran deal is defective at its core. If we do nothing, we will know what exactly will happen.

"Therefore, I am announcing today, that the United States will withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal," he said.

Under the deal signed in Vienna with six world powers - the US, UK, France, Germany, Russia, China and the European Union - Iran scaled back its uranium enrichment programme and promised not to pursue nuclear weapons.

In exchange, international sanctions were lifted, allowing it to sell its oil and gas worldwide. However, secondary US sanctions remain.

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has repeatedly confirmed that Tehran has been meeting its nuclear commitments fully.

A White House statement issued after Trump's speech said the US president directed his "administration to immediately begin the process of re-imposing sanctions" related to the deal, formally known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA).

Iran nuclear deal: Tehran braces for Trump's decision
"The re-imposed sanctions will target critical sectors of Iran’s economy, such as its energy, petrochemical, and financial sectors."

'Foreign policy malpractice'
Trump's decision fulfills a campaign promise to cancel the 2015 pact, which he has repeatedly described as "the worst deal ever".

Responding to Trump's announcement, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani attacked Washington's "empty signatures" and said there was a short time to negotiate with the other world powers to keep the nuclear deal in place.

"I have ordered the foreign ministry to negotiate with the European countries, China and Russia in coming weeks. If at the end of this short period we conclude that we can fully benefit from the JCPOA with the cooperation of all countries, the deal would remain," he added.

Thomas Countryman, former US assistant secretary of state who helped negotiate the deal, said withdrawing from the agreement would further thrust the Middle East into the path of instability.

Countryman said with Trump's decision, the US becomes the first of the seven parties who is violating the agreement.

"That would be a serious case of foreign policy malpractice, and it would have several effects that would play out very slowly."

Iran: Netanyahu's 'lies' aimed at influencing Trump
He also said the US is now left with diminished credibility to negotiate a better deal, while making negotiations with North Korea "more complicated".

International reaction
Hours before his speech, the White House said Trump had called French President Emmanuel Macron to discuss his decision.

Following the announcement, Macron took to Twitter to express the "regret" of Washington's European allies over the decision.

"France, Germany and the UK regret the US decision to leave the JCPOA," Macron said. "The nuclear non-proliferation regime is at stake."

In a joint statement earlier on Tuesday, the European Union, Britain, France and Germany said they met Iranian officials in Brussels and reaffirmed their support "to the continued full and effective implementation of the JCPOA by all sides".

Meanwhile, Russia warned on Tuesday that a "very serious situation" will emerge if Trump pulls out of the pact.

'Call for all-out confrontation with Iran'
Marwan Bishara, Al Jazeera's senior political analyst, called Trump's announcement "a major crossroad not only for the Middle East" but also for "international security".

"I've never seen the Middle East closer to the brink of war, a confrontation of sort, than it is today - at least not since the George W. Bush administration went against Iraq and tried to go against Iran."

Bishara said Trump did not only "alienate his European allies” but his announcement was "a call for an all-out confrontation with Iran" and "a total embrace of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's and of Israel's logic for the Middle East".

"In fact, it's Trump who embraced Netanyahu's vision of a middle east where a confrontation, a showdown with Iran is necessary for peace and security," added Bishara.

For his part, Ali Fathollah-Nejad, an Iran expert at Brookings Doha and the German Council on Foreign Relations, told Al Jazeera that there is an incentive in Tehran to keep the deal afloat despite Trump's decision.

He said "a great portion of the Iranian elite" who benefited from the post-deal business would want the deal to survive.

On the other hand, some hardline factions do not mind the deal's collapse, he said.

Since Trump assumed office in January 2017, he had taken several steps to block the deal.

In October, he refused to certify that Iran is living up to the accord. He also targeted several Iranian businesses and individuals with new sanctions.

On January 12, Trump announced he was waiving the US sanctions for the "last time". He said if his demands to "fix the deal" were not met within 120 days, the US would withdraw from the deal on or before the deadline.

SOURCE: AL JAZEERA NEWS

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018...drawal-iran-nuclear-deal-180508141155625.html

 

[TheImmortal]

Wait until it starts?

You know China was enemies with both the superpowers during the Cold War (USA and USSR).

In the 1950 Korean War, China fought against the USA + 16 of her allies combined, and pushed them into the longest retreat in the history of the US armed forces. This was when China was an undeveloped backwater, we had no air force and didn't even have enough rifles for our troops.

Then in 1969 we fought against the USSR in the Sino-Soviet border conflict. At this time, the USSR was pointing more nukes at China than the USA.

Oh yes, we know the game, and we've been playing it since the founding of the PRC. Our game is to sit back and build up our economic and military power (for decades until we are number 1 in the world), and gradually increase our territory in the South China Sea.

What is your game? And how do you plan to win it?

In world where Russia is overthrown and Iran is overthrown/destroyed. What good is your military power?

China is not Nazi Germany in regards to military prowess of its time, hell China’s military inventions are mostly soviet copies. You still lag behind US/Russia in many areas.

So if Nazi Germany with all its military technology and might couldn’t take on the West by itself (with the help of Imperials japan), what makes you think China will be able to?

If Russia is gone and Iran is conquered. Eyes will turn on China. And who will help china hold off NATO, US, Israel, India? No one!

You simply don’t understand the long game the colonialist play. They have been building colonies before China was a conquered country serving Japan. In the scope of time, China’s rise is a Drop in the bucket.

Unfortunately China is following the same path that Russia did Post 1990 (playing all sides for only her own interest). And the West will shake your hand and call you a friend meanwhile they will slowly move all around you.